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Thread: Carrying at the fair?

  1. #1
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    Carrying at the fair?

    Allright so anyone who is around Rolla this time of year knows that the Lions Club park will be holding there yearly 4th of July Carnival/ fair starting on the fourth and going through the seventh. I have not been to this event in about 5 years due to deployments and being stationed many many miles from MO... but I am thinking of going there this year just for something to do and I think it might be fun. Here is my question... Has anyone OCed at the fair before? I know that the park does not have any rules banning carrying on their grounds (or atleast none that I could find, and I searched high and low), and I have carried at the park several times before without incident. However this being the fair, and the fact that there are going to be a ton more folks there than usual I am fully expecting to have to deal with the local police at least once, if not more than once. Therefore I would like to know for a fact what the rules are before I start dealing with the LEOs again. When I went to Rollafest and the local PD showed up it was easy to deal with them as I knew for a fact I was in the right and I was on public ground. This go around is going to be alittle different as I will be on private property.

    Also if anyone in the area would like to head out to the fair with me while OCing I think it would be awesome to have the support, as well as a better chance to help inform the many folks who will undoubtedly be asking about OCing about their rights and about OCing in general... Thanks in advance for the help.

  2. #2
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    If it's on private property, then the private property owner dictates who can enter and with what. Short of actually asking the property owner, there is no way to know for sure what the policy will be on the day of the event.

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    That is about what I figured. I was just curious if there was anyone who had carried there before. Like I said I have carried at the park before with no problems, but with the fair there I am assuming that there will be a few LEO encounters... So in that case I am wondering if I am asked to leave by the police, should I ask them to speak with the property owner in order to confirm that they do not want me to carry on their property. As I said this is a private park so I am just not sure how to go about things if the LEOs ask me to leave. I do not want to be forced to leave if I am in the right.

    Also I am wanting to send them an email to see what they have to say, but I am not sure how to best word the Email as I have never sent one to someone in regards to OCing... Anyone out there have a good idea for a template to use?

  4. #4
    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOOMcat12B View Post
    That is about what I figured. I was just curious if there was anyone who had carried there before. Like I said I have carried at the park before with no problems, but with the fair there I am assuming that there will be a few LEO encounters... So in that case I am wondering if I am asked to leave by the police, should I ask them to speak with the property owner in order to confirm that they do not want me to carry on their property. As I said this is a private park so I am just not sure how to go about things if the LEOs ask me to leave. I do not want to be forced to leave if I am in the right.

    Also I am wanting to send them an email to see what they have to say, but I am not sure how to best word the Email as I have never sent one to someone in regards to OCing... Anyone out there have a good idea for a template to use?
    My $.02.

    I wouldn't bother asking the property owner; if it's posted, then don't OC. If it's not posted, then OC. If asked to leave, inquire about who gave them authority to ask you to be removed, then determine if they can actually ask you to leave.
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
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  5. #5
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    My $.02.

    I wouldn't bother asking the property owner; if it's posted, then don't OC. If it's not posted, then OC. If asked to leave, inquire about who gave them authority to ask you to be removed, then determine if they can actually ask you to leave.
    My guess is that if law enforcement asks him to leave, and he asks "under what authority" they are acting, they will likely say that the "property owner" has specified "no firearms" during the fair, whether it's true or not. If the property owner is then contacted and put on the spot, my guess is that he/she will likely side with the police regardless.

    Unless I was prepared to simply leave if asked by law enforcement, without taking some kind of stand, I would definitely want to talk to the property owner ahead of time just so I had some solid ground to stand on. At least then you would be able to tell the LEO in question that, "I spoke with Mr./Mrs. Property Owner on Thursday afternoon and he/she informed me that carry in accordance with state law was welcome on his/her property, even during the fair. Now am I being detained, or may I go about my business?".

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    Without permission of the property owner, in writing, there is no way I would even think about questioning the officers authority to toss me. I have no idea what may have transpired prior to them contacting me, the owner themselves may have called them in an absolute panic about a MWG, get him out of here etc.

    One of the fastest ways to tweak a police officers chain is to question his authority and even when they do not have it some will go over the top. Before I pushed a cop's button like that, I would want documented PROOF I had permission to identify it as a clear abuse of power and violation of rights unprovoked by the officer.

    I would not care to OC, but if they order you to leave, the difference in your freedom is compliance vs polite resistance and just because you ASK them if the owner made the call does not mean they have to answer or even tell the truth, cops are allowed to lie, citizens are not.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cshoff View Post
    My guess is that if law enforcement asks him to leave, and he asks "under what authority" they are acting, they will likely say that the "property owner" has specified "no firearms" during the fair, whether it's true or not. If the property owner is then contacted and put on the spot, my guess is that he/she will likely side with the police regardless.

    Unless I was prepared to simply leave if asked by law enforcement, without taking some kind of stand, I would definitely want to talk to the property owner ahead of time just so I had some solid ground to stand on. At least then you would be able to tell the LEO in question that, "I spoke with Mr./Mrs. Property Owner on Thursday afternoon and he/she informed me that carry in accordance with state law was welcome on his/her property, even during the fair. Now am I being detained, or may I go about my business?".
    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    Without permission of the property owner, in writing, there is no way I would even think about questioning the officers authority to toss me. I have no idea what may have transpired prior to them contacting me, the owner themselves may have called them in an absolute panic about a MWG, get him out of here etc.

    One of the fastest ways to tweak a police officers chain is to question his authority and even when they do not have it some will go over the top. Before I pushed a cop's button like that, I would want documented PROOF I had permission to identify it as a clear abuse of power and violation of rights unprovoked by the officer.

    I would not care to OC, but if they order you to leave, the difference in your freedom is compliance vs polite resistance and just because you ASK them if the owner made the call does not mean they have to answer or even tell the truth, cops are allowed to lie, citizens are not.
    I see your points and don't disagree. My thinking, while writing my response, was envisioning the rent-a-cops, not an actual LEO. I would agree if a LEO would ask me to leave, I prolly would leave.
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
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    Rolla Fair or any Fair

    Living in Richland I looked up the Richland Park rules on the cities website for their 4th celebration and they actually posted no guns permitted for certain events. Most of the time the cities who host these "fairs" will have something on their websites, check them out and you will usually find what you are looking for.

  9. #9
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodja72 View Post
    Living in Richland I looked up the Richland Park rules on the cities website for their 4th celebration and they actually posted no guns permitted for certain events. Most of the time the cities who host these "fairs" will have something on their websites, check them out and you will usually find what you are looking for.
    Any "No Guns Permitted" policy would only apply to those without a CCW permit. And, if as the OP mentioned, this particular park is privately owned, then it wouldn't be governed by a city gun ordinance anyway.

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