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Thread: OC Meet & Great somewhere south of Minneapolis.

  1. #1
    Regular Member Irish.40's Avatar
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    OC Meet & Great somewhere south of Minneapolis.

    Alright guys, I am feeling the need to meet you like minded OC gun nuts. I have been enjoying my 2A rights OC style everyday for the last 2 months. I haven't seen another one yet I am thinking somewhere south of Minneapolis as in Bloomington, Burnsville, etc. I don't know if anyone shoots pool but I could talk to the guys at Shooters if there is any interest. It would be nice to set this up for the end of the month or early August. What are your thoughts, ideas?? Also, what does everyone think about weeknight vs. weekend. I prefer weekend if its a evening event, as Im up at 4am M-F.

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    Regular Member gunns's Avatar
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    Sounds good to me. I am out of town July 26th through the 30th though. So if you can plan it early in Aug that would be great. Bloomington to Burnsville works for me.

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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    We could meet in Rochester, MN. I would come over from WI.....

  4. #4
    Regular Member Irish.40's Avatar
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    Alright, I'm thinking the first Saturday in august, the 4th. Haven't narrowed down a location yet. Any recommendations would be great.


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    Regular Member Paul Leason's Avatar
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    http://www.facebook.com/events/443712578992875/

    I have set up an official event.

    Come on out for a neighborly open carry trash pickup Saturday, July 22nd. We'll clean up Lake Calhoun Park, feed the ducks and otherwise have a grand ole time. Bring your gloves, trash bags, your openly- but securely-carried pistol. After we clean up the park, we'll grab a bite to eat. Those without pistols are also welcome!

    *All participants agree to be audio- and video-taped. A calm bearing when dealing with members of the public and any government agents is a must.*

    How to find us:

    We will be meeting at the Tin Fish.
    3000 E Calhoun Pkwy 59987
    Minneapolis, MN 55408.

    My email is paulleason08@gmail.com I can respond quickly to any questions with my phone.

    Also don't forget to Like http://www.facebook.com/mncopblock

  6. #6
    Regular Member Irish.40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunns View Post
    Sounds good to me. I am out of town July 26th through the 30th though. So if you can plan it early in Aug that would be great. Bloomington to Burnsville works for me.

    Gunns, how bout we combine with Paul's event. I will be attending.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Paul Leason's Avatar
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    Come on out for a neighborly open carry trash pickup Sunday, July 22nd. We'll clean up Lake Calhoun Park, feed the ducks and otherwise have a grand ole time. Bring your gloves, trash bags, and your openly- but securely-carried pistol. After we clean up the park, we'll grab a bite to eat. Those without pistols are also welcome!

    *Read this part carefully*!
    *All participants agree to be audio- and video-taped. A calm bearing when dealing with members of the public and any government agents is a must.*
    *We are not allowed to handout literature.
    The only way you are allowed to do so is if the public approaches you. Then you can handout an information flyer. Please do not do this unless they come to you, you will be fined and it won’t look good on us.
    *If you intend on carrying a firearm in public you MUST have a carry permit valid with the state of Minnesota.
    *Upon request from a police officer, you are required to show your permit to carry and a photo ID so please have those with you at all times.

    How to find us:
    We will be meeting at the Tin Fish. On Sunday 22, July at 12 PM.
    3000 E Calhoun Pkwy 59987
    Minneapolis, MN 55408.
    (The Tin Fish is not organizing nor hosting this event in any way. we are being allowed to gather and eat there. So please be very respectful and courteous).

  8. #8
    Regular Member gunns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish.40 View Post
    Gunns, how bout we combine with Paul's event. I will be attending.
    Go for it. I can't make it that day either, I am working. I know its Sunday but I got work to do that can't be done during the week.

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    Regular Member B. Reddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Leason View Post
    Come on out for a neighborly open carry trash pickup Sunday, July 22nd. We'll clean up Lake Calhoun Park, feed the ducks and otherwise have a grand ole time. Bring your gloves, trash bags, and your openly- but securely-carried pistol. After we clean up the park, we'll grab a bite to eat. Those without pistols are also welcome!

    *Read this part carefully*!
    *All participants agree to be audio- and video-taped. A calm bearing when dealing with members of the public and any government agents is a must.*
    *We are not allowed to handout literature.
    The only way you are allowed to do so is if the public approaches you. Then you can handout an information flyer. Please do not do this unless they come to you, you will be fined and it won’t look good on us.
    .
    Paul- just curious, it's illegal to distribute educational flyers unless you are approached? I thought Mpls Park & Rec ordinances provided that "public meetings and constitutionally protected expressions shall be allowed..."?

  10. #10
    Regular Member robdoar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Reddy View Post
    Paul- just curious, it's illegal to distribute educational flyers unless you are approached? I thought Mpls Park & Rec ordinances provided that "public meetings and constitutionally protected expressions shall be allowed..."?
    They are probably hiding behind their "no soliciting" ordinance. Standing with fliers, waiting to be approached, ok.
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  11. #11
    Regular Member B. Reddy's Avatar
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    Want to volunteer? Sure! But first you have 21 pages of rules to read.....

    Huh, well, what do you know? The fine folks at Minneapolis Park & Rec board have a few things to say about what volunteers can do while helping their community.

    page 6:
    Solicitation
    Volunteers may not perform non-MPRB solicitation nor distribute non-MPRB literature during volunteer work hours.

    page 17:
    Firearms & Dangerous Weapons POLICY

    The Minneapolis Park and Recreation Board (MPRB) prohibits employees, volunteers, and independent
    contractors from carrying or possessing a firearm or dangerous weapon while on MPRB property. This policy
    does not apply to law enforcement officials acting within the scope of their sworn duties.

    Possession of a valid concealed weapons permit authorized by the State of Minnesota is not an exemption under this policy.

    Employees and volunteers are prohibited from carrying or possessing a firearm or dangerous weapon while
    acting within the course and scope of employment or volunteerism for the MPRB. The possession or carrying
    of a firearm is prohibited while employees or volunteers are working on MPRB property or while working in
    any location on behalf of the MPRB.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Paul Leason's Avatar
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    Yeah I have been talking to Minneapolis about this and it's fine. We can hand out info if they come to you. However we are going to hold off on the clean up until we get a bigger group of people. But we are meeting for lunch today at the Tin Fish still. So I hope to see you all there

  13. #13
    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    *Upon request from a police officer, you are required to show your permit to carry and a photo ID so please have those with you at all times.~Paul Leason


    Respectfully, have you explored the possibility that may not be the reality? Does the purchase of a permit negate all other rights you have? [Right to privacy, right to travel freely, right to exist without fear of persecution?]

    Here's the Minnesota statute:

    https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=624.714

    I'd ask you to look at:

    Subd. 1b.Display of permit; penalty. (a) The holder of a permit to carry must have the permit card and a driver's license, state identification card, or other government-issued photo identification in immediate possession at all times when carrying a pistol and must display the permit card and identification document upon lawful demand by a peace officer, as defined in section 626.84, subdivision 1. A violation of this paragraph is a petty misdemeanor. The fine for a first offense must not exceed $25. Notwithstanding section 609.531, a firearm carried in violation of this paragraph is not subject to forfeiture.

    Does the "lawful demand of a peace officer" require RAS.... “Reasonable Articulable Suspicion” that one is in the commission of a crime, or conspiring to commit a crime? If RAS is present, producing ID is required. Openly packing a handgun IS NOT RAS. There is federal precedence on this matter all over the place.

    Why is RAS such an issue? Because if police can detain you without it, police can basically assault you on sight for simply carrying a firearm. They can rip the wallet from your pocket, going through your personal papers. Where is the limit? What prevents them [police] from holding you at gun point until they have stripped you in front of your family, peers, co-workers, humiliating you and casting you in the light of a dangerous predator, deserving of the most aggressive of felony take downs, looking for something you might of left at home?

    I'm not focusing on the right to carry, rather, the right to privacy. Unless I missed a memo, this is not a police state where "show me ze papers" dominates, and you will comply or die.

    Here's my contention: If we singly or as a group are gathered, engaged in open carry, are observably law abiding, the police have no right or reason to approach you/us to demand that permit. Can they take people down on the street at gun point at the voting polls, strip them of everything that might contain an ID to establish they are citizens? No. Can they kick in our doors, hold us at gunpoint and demand a marriage license if there are people in a bed? No. We have some protections from unwarranted intrusions, and I think it applies to us practicing a legitimate activity as well.

    I think if enough people find a common understanding on the issues of open carry in Minnesota, the more support will turn out. The hard part is going to be getting the information out to develop the understanding.

    Sorry I can't make the meet today. It's about 160 miles one way, it's raining, I'm on a motorcycle, and I'd have less than an hour to get there. I'd love hear about the turnout and what was discussed.
    Last edited by Fuller Malarkey; 07-22-2012 at 01:08 PM. Reason: aw kin spel. aw kant type.
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
    ~Citizen

    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

  14. #14
    Regular Member robdoar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    *Upon request from a police officer, you are required to show your permit to carry and a photo ID so please have those with you at all times.~Paul Leason


    Respectfully, have you explored the possibility that may not be the reality? Does the purchase of a permit negate all other rights you have? [Right to privacy, right to travel freely, right to exist without fear of persecution?]

    ...

    Here's my contention: If we singly or as a group are gathered, engaged in open carry, are observably law abiding, the police have no right or reason to approach you/us to demand that permit. Can they take people down on the street at gun point at the voting polls, strip them of everything that might contain an ID to establish they are citizens? No. Can they kick in our doors, hold us at gunpoint and demand a marriage license if there are people in a bed? No. We have some protections from unwarranted intrusions, and I think it applies to us practicing a legitimate activity as well.
    ...
    Unfortunately, the MN Supreme Court has ruled in the opposite of your contention:

    2008, State v. Timberlake

    The presence of a gun is reasonable suspicion for the potential of a crime being committed, and the police are authorized to verify that the gun is being lawfully carried.
    Last edited by robdoar; 07-23-2012 at 02:28 PM.
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  15. #15
    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robdoar View Post
    Unfortunately, the MN Supreme Court has ruled in the opposite of your contention:

    2008, State v. Timberlake

    The presence of a gun is reasonable suspicion for the potential of a crime being committed, and the police are authorized to verify that the gun is being lawfully carried.
    Thank you for the response. It wasn't what I wanted to hear, but you supplied the cite I needed. I certainly don't see it [State v. Timberlake] as "the fatal blow to reasonable protected rights expectations", just a long ways back from pole position.

    I checked out your blogs robdoar. It looks like you are realistic about the pitfalls and dangers of carrying openly in Minnesota, and have a good assessment of the problems. It's been very difficult getting any information on line on how to protect one's self from police aggression. Kind of a "No Talk Rule" in place here, enforced by forum members that are cops and their loyal followers. Not unique to Minnesota, it's just that dealing with that again is like stepping into the way-back machine and starting over. It's been a while since I've had to be concerned about how my family goes about retrieving my body if I choose to practice what I see as a fundamental right.


    If you are so inclined, maybe you could discuss, in your view, how to carry AND survive with some rights in tact and a life expectancy longer than a house fly here in the land of the wind chill factor.
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
    ~Citizen

    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

  16. #16
    Regular Member robdoar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    If you are so inclined, maybe you could discuss, in your view, how to carry AND survive with some rights in tact and a life expectancy longer than a house fly here in the land of the wind chill factor.
    MOST of the metro cops are familiar with the law. I open carry quite a lot, and have never had a police interaction that consisted more then "you might want to cover that up". To which I thank them for their suggestion, and carry on.

    Kill them with kindness. When I open carry, I dress nicer then my lawn mowing clothes, I hold doors, say ma'am and sir, smile, and offer help (tall items on a shelf for example).

    My goal is for people to stop equating guns with fear.

    That being said, I don't go out unprepared either. I usually have a voice recorder going, and a cell phone/video on standby. A voice recorder is $50, and can run for HOURS. It's easy to delete non-eventful audio. A more stealty way is "Cop Recorder" apps on smart phones. It start up, then runs in the background. so even if a cop seizes your phone, theres nothing that shows it's recording.

    Just be smart, and polite, you should get home with as many holes as you left with, and without any pit stops at the county fail.
    Political Director - MN Gun Owners Caucus/PAC
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  17. #17
    Regular Member tjkruck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robdoar View Post
    MOST of the metro cops are familiar with the law. I open carry quite a lot, and have never had a police interaction that consisted more then "you might want to cover that up". To which I thank them for their suggestion, and carry on.

    Kill them with kindness. When I open carry, I dress nicer then my lawn mowing clothes, I hold doors, say ma'am and sir, smile, and offer help (tall items on a shelf for example).

    My goal is for people to stop equating guns with fear.

    That being said, I don't go out unprepared either. I usually have a voice recorder going, and a cell phone/video on standby. A voice recorder is $50, and can run for HOURS. It's easy to delete non-eventful audio. A more stealty way is "Cop Recorder" apps on smart phones. It start up, then runs in the background. so even if a cop seizes your phone, theres nothing that shows it's recording.

    Just be smart, and polite, you should get home with as many holes as you left with, and without any pit stops at the county fail.
    +1

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