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Thread: Why such paranioa over law enforcment?

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    Why such paranioa over law enforcment?

    I dunno, maybe its where i'm from a small town and know most of the police and few others in other counties. but the encounters i have had from ones i did not know have never been bad. it seems like the mentality of this forum as well as other firearm forums as a whole is the cops are out to get you. i just do not see it. can someone tell me why?

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    None of us think that cops are out to get us. Most recognize that the majority of law enforcement officers are just trying to do their job. But we are realists, we recognize that there is always a bad apple in a barrel. Someone who either is on a power kick or just does not know the law. Look at the average citizen, they think that you need a permit to carry a firearm. Law enforcement officers were once just an average citizen. So it is natural that we will run into a few bad ones. We always prepare for those.

    Also, it does not matter if you know the cops by name and have had past (favorable) dealings with them. Look at all my stories, the only favorable encounter I had was with a deputy from a neighboring county. All the rest I knew, I played paintball a deputy for a while, worked wrecks beside the sheriff and have talked to all the other deputies for various things. Then I started carrying a firearm and they changed.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Just as Isaac said..tons of good LEO's but always the hand full of bad one that don't care to sh!t on your rights. I myself have rode along with LE from my city and even thought about switching jobs to become a LEO. Keep in mind that we don't just talk about how to handle a bad encounter with LEO but we also discuss ways to handle a bad encounter with Joe Blow citizen. If an LEO isn't giving me a hard time I will go out of my way to be polite. But if he starts to stomp on my right I will very politly defend them. That gun on your hip doesn't always make you right but also keep in mind that the badge on his chest doesn't always make him right.

    We are never looking for trouble when we OC but we don't like to have our balls busted by LEO (or anyone) if we are legal in what we are doing. It kinda goes back to what you see everytime you log onto this site.."A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost"
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
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    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis C View Post
    I dunno, maybe its where i'm from a small town and know most of the police and few others in other counties. but the encounters i have had from ones i did not know have never been bad. it seems like the mentality of this forum as well as other firearm forums as a whole is the cops are out to get you. i just do not see it. can someone tell me why?
    Go on Youtube and search for police misconduct, opencarry detainment, etc. These videos will blow your mind, and this is what happens everyday here in the good old United States. I agree with the rest that the majority of small town "peace officers" are good guys, but in the bigger cities law enforcement officers are being militarized and trained to act like soldiers in a war zone and not the peace officers they are supposed to be. Watch the videos, they will make you extremely mad if you are a freedom loving American.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    we do respect LEOs on this site. that a basic in the term law abiding citizen.

    it said better in this phrase, "we are not anti cop, just pro rights"

    just remember absolute power corrupts, absolutely. we are Leary of people with absolute powers
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Why do police have the stereotype of being @$$holes? I don't know if it is the type of person that is attracted to the position of power or if it is a police tactic. Perhaps more the latter. I asked an acquaintance that was a cop and he said that in dealing with the public during many stressful/friction prone situations, it's better to come off as strong and in control.

    Personally, my experiences have been 90% negative in IN and almost 90% positive in KY. We have to remember that when we deal with the police in confrontation/detainment (rather than the casual encounter), we have almost nothing to gain and everything to lose. When I'm pulled over for a traffic violation--especially when I know I'm guilty, I'll be very courteous and professional (not that I would consent to searches). If I'm being detained for a BS reason--say OCing--I have no incentive for cooperating with police. There's a very good YouTube video posted in various places around this forum where a professor explains why talking to the police is a bad idea.

    As with any stereotype, there are trends that happen with certain people groups. The majority of those in a people group may not act in that manner, but nevertheless--there are common characteristics that present themselves. Unfortunately, with LEOs, many of these are negative.

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    most of the you tube videos i've seen people are delibritly doing something to provoke the officer for a reaction, and some should have been arrested.

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis C View Post
    most of the you tube videos i've seen people are delibritly doing something to provoke the officer for a reaction, and some should have been arrested.
    Holding dear their rights. Yea, it pisses the government off too. I think most of the time they are needlessly doing what they do, but I support their right to do it. "Randomly" video taping a cop, should they be arrested for that? No. Refusing to give ID where it is not warranted, should they be arrested for that? No.

    I have to problem producing ID. I do have problems with "Law-enforcement" demanding ID where I do not have any obligations to though.

    Plenty would say that all of us, as OC'ers are "provoking" an officer. It is a dangerous road to go down to start enforcing opinions. You will find no support for that view here.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    Holding dear their rights. Yea, it pisses the government off too. I think most of the time they are needlessly doing what they do, but I support their right to do it. "Randomly" video taping a cop, should they be arrested for that? No. Refusing to give ID where it is not warranted, should they be arrested for that? No.

    I have to problem producing ID. I do have problems with "Law-enforcement" demanding ID where I do not have any obligations to though.

    Plenty would say that all of us, as OC'ers are "provoking" an officer. It is a dangerous road to go down to start enforcing opinions. You will find no support for that view here.
    I am almost scared to get involved with this conversation.. i said "almost"..

    I have wondered the same thing at times.. it isnt the community as a whole.. but some people do go a bit paranoid when it comes to OC...

    I do not watch for a LEO reaction.. i do not carry a recording device... even when OC.. I feel like if I need to carry a recording device when OC then I should carry one 24/7 when I am doing other legal activities.. just in case a LEO feels a reason to hassle me for driving my car legally..

    Bottom line.. OC is legal.. it is no different than walking down the street... eating pizza.. drinking a coke.. or talking to your neighbor

    We as a whole do catch a little extra attention when OC because it isn't normal.. and the recording devices have come in handy in situations.. it is a matter of personal opinion and choice that I respect just as I respect someone's personal choice to carry or to not carry.

    If I wanted to color my hair blue I wouldn't feel the need to carry one, so I don't when OC or CC.. just my personal choice :-)

    Disclaimer: no offense meant to anyone and my spelling sucks right now :-) (I think I corrected typo's)
    Last edited by kywildcat581; 07-05-2012 at 06:09 PM.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis C View Post
    most of the you tube videos i've seen people are delibritly doing something to provoke the officer for a reaction, and some should have been arrested.
    And this is the real problem with our current situation. What should these people be arrested for? Attempting to document illegal detainments? Like the vast majority of the country you've been indoctrinated from birth with school and TV that cops have absolute power. They don't. We've been taught that "public safety" is a cause that gives cops a blanket power to inflict any sort of "temporary" denial of all rights. Freedom is a antiquated ideal....

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    Most of my family is or has been LEO's, so I've grown up around them. I'm not paranoid during a traffic stop. I am however acutely aware that the vast majority of LEO's who have any number of years oh say above...one on the force are incredibly paranoid. With good reason, unless stats have changed traffic stops are considered one of the most dangerous encounters a LEO faces. The worst nightmare scenario ontop of that is a man with a gun during a traffic stop. So yes, when I do get pulled over and I am carrying the stress level does ratchet up for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    And this is the real problem with our current situation. What should these people be arrested for? Attempting to document illegal detainments? Like the vast majority of the country you've been indoctrinated from birth with school and TV that cops have absolute power. They don't. We've been taught that "public safety" is a cause that gives cops a blanket power to inflict any sort of "temporary" denial of all rights. Freedom is a antiquated ideal....

    well for one, there is several, nearly the same senerio a person with a camera engages an officer who is doing a traffic stop, just comes up and harasses the cop, then walks away, then it picks up when the cop stops the guy with the camera. I'm sorry that is just idiotic they are asking for trouble.

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    I support the forum rules:

    (15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY

    And that includes police. We have seen far too many instances of police violating the Constitution and the law, trampling citizens' rights as well as their faces.

    Are there cops who are't bad? Of course. Probably the majority aren't bad. But, just being "not bad" doesn't make them good. Being a good cop means stopping the bad cops, and that's extremely rare, and understandably so: Regina Tasca tried being a good cop, and look what it got her.

    Even the most anarchist-leaning among us here has no problem with peace officers. The problem is, there are so few of them.

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    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    The danger of professional law enforcement is by making them a select group of people with special powers, you've created an in-group and an out-group. This situation almost always leads to abuse and discrimination.

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis C View Post
    well for one, there is several, nearly the same senerio a person with a camera engages an officer who is doing a traffic stop, just comes up and harasses the cop, then walks away, then it picks up when the cop stops the guy with the camera. I'm sorry that is just idiotic they are asking for trouble.
    I have seen a video just like the one you described. Just because someone is being annoying/an a-hole/nuisance or "harassing" doesn't mean that they shouldn't be allowed to do what they want to do. I think Obama supporters are annoying, many people on this forum will agree with that claim, should that give us the authority to "punish" them how we see fit? As I stated before, it is dangerous to allow opinions to be enforced. It is already this way and look at the mess we are in, I doubt more opinions will do anything to help.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis C View Post
    well for one, there is several, nearly the same senerio a person with a camera engages an officer who is doing a traffic stop, just comes up and harasses the cop, then walks away, then it picks up when the cop stops the guy with the camera. I'm sorry that is just idiotic they are asking for trouble.
    I believe I've seen this video. The guy decided to record the police stop from across the street. Again what crime should the person with the camera be arrested for? Actions congruent with being a idiot in the opinion of Curtis?

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    Wow! Youve gotten really off-topic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    ...the Jewish-run production companies have blasted the tv screens with a lot of N a z i SS and Gestapo shows...
    Ya. People do get of topic times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    I have long since suspected an undertone of self interest in a lot of Jewish productions.

    I guess I may just be paranoid then.

    Or I might be right on and simply a lone wolf.
    A Obama supporting antisemite. Is anyone surprised?
    "Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms." Josey Wales

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    Wow! Youve gotten really off-topic.

    Better stock up on meds for November, when Romney goes down in flames, as he should.
    My mistake. I thought OP brought up a scenario of people doing something that most would agree is annoying and usually uncalled for, then said that they should be arrested for it.

    Wait, he did. I was exaggerating the scenario to show the flaws in the logic. I don't care how annoying a behavior is, until it crosses the law the person should be allowed to continue without being harassed by the police.

    Just because someone doesn't obey every order (not backed by law) from a "public servant", does not mean they are provoking a reaction.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    I support the forum rules:

    (15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY

    And that includes police. We have seen far too many instances of police violating the Constitution and the law, trampling citizens' rights as well as their faces.

    Are there cops who are't bad? Of course. Probably the majority aren't bad. But, just being "not bad" doesn't make them good. Being a good cop means stopping the bad cops, and that's extremely rare, and understandably so: Regina Tasca tried being a good cop, and look what it got her.

    Even the most anarchist-leaning among us here has no problem with peace officers. The problem is, there are so few of them.

    20% of LEO are good people looking to genuinely help people
    70% are hero wannabe's that rely just want the uniform and the respect that the general public gives LEOs
    10% are a'holes that want the power to abuse people and get a way with it
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    Then I started carrying a firearm and they changed.
    Nah.. They didn't change. They only began treating you differently, because you are doing something they thought was only reserved for themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady
    I am no victim, just a poor college student who looks to the day where the rich have the living piss taxed out of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I believe I've seen this video. The guy decided to record the police stop from across the street. Again what crime should the person with the camera be arrested for? Actions congruent with being a idiot in the opinion of Curtis?
    no, this dude came up to the car, drivers fender, berating the cop, saying he didn't have a right to pull that person over or something like that, the cop then told the dude several times to back away i'm in the middle of this stop i'll deal with you after i'm done here, goes on a few more exchanges he walks off, it picks back up with the cop stoping the dude, and his side arm came into question. and few more patrol cars come. i havn't been able to find it again. but that was silly approching a cop in such a manner while he is doing a traffic stop. in my mind that is asking for trouble.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis C View Post
    no, this dude came up to the car, drivers fender, berating the cop, saying he didn't have a right to pull that person over or something like that, the cop then told the dude several times to back away i'm in the middle of this stop i'll deal with you after i'm done here, goes on a few more exchanges he walks off, it picks back up with the cop stoping the dude, and his side arm came into question. and few more patrol cars come. i havn't been able to find it again. but that was silly approching a cop in such a manner while he is doing a traffic stop. in my mind that is asking for trouble.
    gotta link?

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    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Unfortunately it happens. I carry two video recorders and my cell at all times...whether I am carrying my firearm or not. I will never play the "He said, she said" game again. Once is enough to make you a believer in carrying a recording device whether it is some rude jerk or an officer of the law you are dealing with. My choices are video recorders.

    Please go to Y.T. and watch "Don't Talk To The Police". It's a very good video with a law professor and a police officer explaining why you don't want to talk to the police. Learn your rights, stand up for them at all times.
    “The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” -- Samuel Adams

    “Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.”

    —John F. Kennedy

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    My reason for a guarded amount of trust towards law enforcement officers is because while there aren't really very many bad ones out there (in my opinion), a high percentage of the rest will by default defend the words and actions of the rotten apples in their ranks.

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