Why such paranioa over law enforcment?

[video=youtube_share;Bmys_9LDFec]http://youtu.be/Bmys_9LDFec[/video]

here is one, i can't find the other, this dude seeks out the cop, he is not minding his own, he seeks confrontation, crap like that is uncalled for. does not matter if he is oc'ing or not.
the actions i described was facetious under the claim of exercising free speech that did not happen anywhere.

Curtis C said:

[video=youtube_share;Bmys_9LDFec]http://youtu.be/Bmys_9LDFec[/video]

here is one, i can't find the other, this dude seeks out the cop, he is not minding his own, he seeks confrontation, crap like that is uncalled for. does not matter if he is oc'ing or not.

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OMG he video taped a traffic stop, he should be drawn and quartered, and it certainly gives the cop the right to violate his rights? Correct? People have been doing this for years even without video recording equipment, it's called "rubbernecking". It's an annoyance but not illegal and certainly not an excuse to abuse police power. LEO's take a job to serve the public, and that includes putting up with legal behavior that might be annoying.

I believe that there are some trends worth mentioning.

1) It seems to me that police in small towns tend to be more like Sheriff Andy Taylor, and police in larger towns tend to be more like Barney Fife... or Judge Dredd ("I AM THE LAW!").

2) It also seems that younger police officers are more likely to favor police and state power and less likely to respect our constitutions and the individual rights of those taxpayers who pay their salaries, and older police officers are more in the "peace officer" mode than the "law enforcement" mode.

3) Finally, it seems to me that the problem with bad police officers is increasing over time, which I find disturbing.

Of course, like all stereotypes, there are plenty of contrary examples, and my opinions and observations are subjective and are almost certainly skewed at least a bit.

To the original question though, I think much of the concern over police behavior in the open carry community is the result of some bad first and second hand encounters, bolstered by high profile videos like this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpC3-2ATmIo
(6:15 video - Warning: Bad Language)

This police officer wasn't disciplined for this egregious behavior, but was finally fired after he spent a long time berating passengers in a back seat of a car, then realized that the driver had a CCW and was carrying. He became insane with rage when he realized his mistake, and repeatedly threatened to execute the driver, despite the fact that he had repeatedly told the driver to shut up when the driver repeatedly tried to show him his CCW permit and inform him of his lawfully possessed weapon as the Ohio state law requires.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaDP8YLCKj4
(2:35 video - Warning: Bad Language)

Here's the full video. It's disturbing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG2TSCpSEVw
(15:30 video - fast forward to 5:00 to see the attitude related to those who aren't police but are armed)

This is an example of what it finally takes to sever the thin blue line that protects police in Canton Ohio.

Curtis C said:

the cops are out to get you. i just do not see it. can someone tell me why?

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Because I have never seen a cop collect evidence to get a guy out of prison before, maybe?

You go ahead and yap yap yap all you want to police & other government employees ... you'll have more issues with them than I will ever had.

I have had zero issues with cops ... because I don't talk to them.

I only talk to gov't employees in court ... and that's to ask questions or answer them if required.

Curtis C said:

ok you put it that way, i see a cop with some one pulled over i can just stop and go up to him and start giving them hell for pulling the car over cause they are being a dick and keeping the
people from going to there destination. as long as i record the situation its all cool. hell it don't even have to be the police, i could berate some waitress at waffle house for getting my order wrong and record that. just start walking down the street telling every one **** you you ******* ******. keep that up enough i get the cops called i tell him **** you, you ******* ******! while giving him a double bird. dammit yeah there is free speech but it gets to a point it becomes harassment.

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HAHA. My friend you have a lot to learn. In five years we can come back to this same thread and re-energize this conversation and we will see if you still feel the same way.

You can record anything you like, that is none of my concern. I really suggest you do some intense research into police misconduct and deprivation of civil rights. The Internet is a wonderful tool that can be used to vastly expand your knowledge base. Instead of asking people if something is right or wrong do the research yourself.

Watch these videos: "Martial Law 9/11:Rise of The Police State"-"Fall of the Republic"-"Don't Tread On Me" Do a search of "Police State" on Youtube and watch some of the videos that you find. The agents of the state that are doing these horrendous acts are getting away with them without any justice whatsoever. If you or I attempted to do something of a much smaller scale than what these "officers" do we would be thrown in jail to set while we go through the trial process, and lose our right to bear arms and others in the process. We are no longer innocent until proven guilty in this country, we are guilty until proven innocent. The first time you are on the receiving end of police misconduct you will change the way you look at these situations, that I can promise you.

gutshot said:

Nothing that man did was illegal or the slightest bit unreasonable. All he did was video a public employee in the public execution of public business. He even backed up all the way across the street to give this public servant plenty of room.

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Yup a perfect example of a person who should be arrested...

MKEgal said:

There are officers who would. But it seems that most officers focus their displeasure on people with cameras &/or firearms.
In some places, people of a certain religion or skin color are hassled. If I lived there, & fit that description, I'd carry a recording device whenever I was out of my home.
I've already won one lawsuit thanks in large part to my video of police employees being bad. They lied about it in their sworn statements, too. Wonder how the judge punished them for perjury?

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Eh, there are officers that do a lot of things.. just my personal thoughts and opinions that the logic on this situation outweighs the chance's.

To each their own... I support whatever your personal decision is in the matter... I was just stating that I personally do not carry one.

Then again, I guess percentage based.. actually ever needing to draw my firearm is sch a small percentile chance it may not make much sense to carry it 24/7 either, but I still do.. oh my... hypicritical I guess I can be!

Commence to carrying it!

http://www.infowars.com/rhode-island-cop-still-employed-despite-conviction-of-kicking-woman-to-head/

Here Curtis, watch this video and tell me if you would have preferred that the video camera not have been where it was. And I should point out, this officer committed a violent felony and received NO jail time! NONE! This is the corrupt system we have these days, and if people set around and do nothing about it it will continue to get worse.

DrakeZ07 said:

If it walks, talks, and acts like a Anti-Semite, then it is what it is.

You see that lil tag up there above the ads, the one that goes along the lines of which state you're posting your garbage in? Yeah, kindly walk out the door and take your racial excrement with you; I'm sure the other states would be more than happy to play in the sandbox with you, and I'll even bet they have free juice boxes!

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Take your pick, drake.

kywildcat581 said:

Eh, there are officers that do a lot of things.. just my personal thoughts and opinions that the logic on this situation outweighs the chance's.

To each their own... I support whatever your personal decision is in the matter... I was just stating that I personally do not carry one.

Then again, I guess percentage based.. actually ever needing to draw my firearm is sch a small percentile chance it may not make much sense to carry it 24/7 either, but I still do.. oh my... hypicritical I guess I can be!

Commence to carrying it!

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I would venture to guess that you would be hundreds of times more likely to need a recorder for a corrupt cop, than your firearm for someone trying to do you harm. These are serious times we find ourselves in these days, and it certainly isn't getting any better.

Why do you carry a firearm? To defend yourself from the criminal element.

Why do you carry a recording device? To defend yourself from the criminal element.

Unfortunately, sometimes, the criminal element just happens to be a cop.

KYGlockster said:

I would venture to guess that you would be hundreds of times more likely to need a recorder for a corrupt cop, than your firearm for someone trying to do you harm. These are serious times we find ourselves in these days, and it certainly isn't getting any better.

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I have a difference of opinion on the corrupt cop scenerio. I do NOT believe that police are corrupt. I believe the training is corrupt. We militarized our police departments. We have turned them into something they were not meant to be, soldiers. And if you have ever been in the military, you know how they teach you that you are to move forward at all cost. I know the Marines did it to me. With that training comes a man or woman with the attitude of invinsibility and also the god syndrome, as in I am always correct. What we should do with training is remove the military aspect and make them peace officers again. Men and women who keep the peace, not look for arrest. Remember the days as a teenager, you got caught acting stupid in the car and they took you home for you parents to take care of the problem and if they didn't, the next time you went to jail? Why do they cite or arrest for every small misdeamenor? I'm sure it's the money. Again, something that we all should look at when we go to the polls. Who am I electing and does he/she reflect the values I want for my community? It applies to open carry. It is legal and we should not be accosted for doing something legal.

hotrod said:

I have a difference of opinion on the corrupt cop scenerio. I do NOT believe that police are corrupt. I believe the training is corrupt. We militarized our police departments. We have turned them into something they were not meant to be, soldiers. And if you have ever been in the military, you know how they teach you that you to move forward at all cost. I know the Marines did it to me. With that training comes a man or woman with the attitude of invinsibility and also the god syndrone, as I am always correct. What we should do with training is remove the military aspect and make them peace officers again. Men and women who keep the peace, not look for arrest. Remember the days as a teenager, you got caught acting stupid in the car and they took you home for you parents to take care of the problem and if they didn't, the next time you went to jail? Why do they cite or arrest for every small misdeamenor? I'm sure it's the money. Again, something that we all should look at when we go to the polls. Who am I electing and does he/she reflect the values I want for my community? It applies to open carry. It is legal and we should not be accosted for doing something legal.

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Scary truth...but you can see that in a lot of LEO's now a days.. "just doing what we're taught to do"

hotrod said:

I have a difference of opinion on the corrupt cop scenerio. I do NOT believe that police are corrupt. I believe the training is corrupt. We militarized our police departments. We have turned them into something they were not meant to be, soldiers. And if you have ever been in the military, you know how they teach you that you to move forward at all cost. I know the Marines did it to me. With that training comes a man or woman with the attitude of invinsibility and also the god syndrone, as I am always correct. What we should do with training is remove the military aspect and make them peace officers again. Men and women who keep the peace, not look for arrest. Remember the days as a teenager, you got caught acting stupid in the car and they took you home for you parents to take care of the problem and if they didn't, the next time you went to jail? Why do they cite or arrest for every small misdeamenor? I'm sure it's the money. Again, something that we all should look at when we go to the polls. Who am I electing and does he/she reflect the values I want for my community? It applies to open carry. It is legal and we should not be accosted for doing something legal.

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Something I have been saying for a long time. Return to the Peace Officer and abandon the LEO.

As a retired trooper, thanks for your comment. It is spot on.

MrOverlay said:

Something I have been saying for a long time. Return to the Peace Officer and abandon the LEO.

As a retired trooper, thanks for your comment. It is spot on.

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I have to agree with this. I firmly believe that not all LEO's are bad, like I said I have a family full of them, out of that family. One is a true, power trip *******. The rest are good folks doing an under appreciated job. I'd like to see LEO's going back to exactly what the acronym means. Law Enforcement Officer. You don't get to make up laws on the spot, you don't get to pick and choose which to enforce and which not to.

The attitude these days among a lot of LEO's seems to be, when in doubt, arrest them. I think knowing they're by and large shielded from this type of mistake by their immunity they choose what to them is the safest route. It's not, can I or should I arrest you? It's, I'll arrest you now and leave it to the DA to find something that will stick or not.

PS: Did we recently enact a law here in Ky that prohibits LEO's from enacting an arrest in any case where a lesser punishment like a ticket is possible instead?

hotrod said:

I have a difference of opinion on the corrupt cop scenerio. I do NOT believe that police are corrupt. I believe the training is corrupt. We militarized our police departments. We have turned them into something they were not meant to be, soldiers. And if you have ever been in the military, you know how they teach you that you are to move forward at all cost. I know the Marines did it to me. With that training comes a man or woman with the attitude of invinsibility and also the god syndrome, as in I am always correct. What we should do with training is remove the military aspect and make them peace officers again. Men and women who keep the peace, not look for arrest. Remember the days as a teenager, you got caught acting stupid in the car and they took you home for you parents to take care of the problem and if they didn't, the next time you went to jail? Why do they cite or arrest for every small misdeamenor? I'm sure it's the money. Again, something that we all should look at when we go to the polls. Who am I electing and does he/she reflect the values I want for my community? It applies to open carry. It is legal and we should not be accosted for doing something legal.

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If the training is corrupt wouldn't that make the cop corrupt? I think it would if the cop decided to abide by his corrupt training and not what is right, but it doesn't really matter because the road we are heading down is not going to end well. All we have to do is strudy the history of the World's civilizations to realize what is happening. We never seem to learn from history, and that is why it is constantly repeated. We have psychotic control freaks in charge and it always ends the same way when this happens. People are always saying nothing will happen here in the United States, this and that but they are wrong. It doesn't take much investigation and study to realize where we are at today, and it certainly is not a good place. I hope I am wrong, but again, if we study the history, I'm afraid I won't be.

We should have mandated a College Degree for any position that holds the powers of arrest. It is proven that an officer with an education is much less likely to have complaints and ethical violations on his record. This however is not what is wanted, so we head down the road we are now. Look at the TSA. These criminals take an 80 hour training course and get placed in airports to grope and molest men, women and CHILDREN! The outlook for this great nation is dark indeed, and it makes me feel awful! Look at Waco, and what the Federal Government did. This incident was the start of the police state in this country, and they killed 17 small children and numerous adults for no reason, and everything they did was illegal.

I'm not bashing all Peace Officers either, I am studying to be one as we speak. However, the people allowed into this field should be able to recognize and judge right from wrong, and if they can't accomplish this simple task they should never be given a badge. You can train me to deprive every citizen I come across of their rights for 18 weeks or how ever long I am in the academy, but once I am actually on the street does not mean I have to do it. There is a policy called police discretion that law enforcement officers have the right to use, and they should use that discretion if their superiors are trying to make them deprive someone of their natural rights and enforce illegal policy. They should enforce the law and nothing else, period! And, if they believe the law is unconstitutional, then they should not enforce it.

hotrod said:

"If the training is corrupt wouldn't that make the cop corrupt? I think it would if the cop decided to abide by his corrupt training and not what is right, but it doesn't really matter because the road we are heading down is not going to end well".

I understand the premise, but I don't believe it correct. Police officers know what they are trained to do and act in that manner. You said that the police officer of today should be college educated. I don't believe that is neccessary. It's probably a great idea, but the behavior comes from the training and some from the command. If your command is willing to let you be a loose cannon, then that is what you will be. If your command has a tight leash, demands honesty and loyalty and teaches and trains you properly, that is they way you will work. If you will have intregrity and honesty, both will make you a great peace officer. I live by a saying given to me by training officer many years ago, Loyalty Above All Else, Except Honor.

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Most dept heads have criminal justice degrees, the above is correct, it is not the education but the training and the mindset that is the problem.

We've been referencing two types of cops--"peace officers" and LEOs, good guy cop vs. power trip cop. I thought this article with two different police recruitment videos really illustrated this debate well:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/good-cop-bad-cop-police-193551343.html

WalkingWolf said:

Most dept heads have criminal justice degrees, the above is correct, it is not the education but the training and the mindset that is the problem.

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You are right, it is the training and mindset. If an officer has the mindset to violate his oath and follow illegal training then that would make him corrupt, or criminal. Perhaps they are so ignorant of the law that they honestly don't know what the constitution's and law says. The majority of academies are spent on crime fighting as in dealing with suspects, etc. This is exactly why we need to require an education to be a Peace Officer, Law Enforcement Officer, etc. If every officer in the United States had an education and had extensively studied the law and constitution's he is to abide by and uphold then this country would be MUCH better off.