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Thread: This Guy Gives OC'ers A Terrible Name

  1. #1
    Regular Member MainelyGlock's Avatar
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    This Guy Gives OC'ers A Terrible Name

    Bad attitude, bad logic, and he seems to have open carried his AK just to attract police attention. Something about this guy just rubs me wrong. Sound off!


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUd_0...feature=g-vrec
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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Yawn....
    Yes yes he's awful. Really anyone who doesn't exorcise their rights the way I do is awful.

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    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    Having a bad attitude isn't illegal just very unwise.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    (14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules
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    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-05-2012 at 10:09 PM. Reason: Limit use of emoticons please.
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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    (14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules
    Can you delete this thread Grape?

    I have seen this video a few times and have no problems with the guy.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    I too, have no problems with his actions nor with his videotaping the event.
    IF the cop thought the carrier was being stupid and trying to "bait" him, how stupid does he have to be to swallow the obvious "bait"?

    If there was a car with the engine running and the doors left invitingly open, and someone thought to himself, "Hey, that's prolly one o' them there bait cars I's always hearin' about" and then decided to try and steal the car, would anyone here have any sympathy for the idiot?
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 07-05-2012 at 10:49 PM.

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    I first I thought that this guy was just being an attention-*****. That is what I had a problem with (don't think it gives us a bad name). But after he said that he had a reason other than to bait the cops, I support what he did completely.
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    Considering I personally view carrying an AK is pretty stupid, but thats my opinion. Yes you will get attention if your carrying an Assault Rifle around cause its an "Assault Rifle". Honestly I am bothered as theres a difference between carrying and carrying for attention since he was video taping himself. My view point is this, your video taping yourself carrying around an AK47, yes of course you will get attention, saying you don't want attention is a lie considering on what your doing. Nothing against the guy or trying to flame him by any means, but I think carrying around something like that is a bit stupid. Not trying to ruffel any feathers here, but thats just my opinion.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Funny the guy does not rub me wrong. I think people need to get over paranoia. Exercising a right is exercising a right.

  11. #11
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWCook View Post
    Considering I personally view carrying an AK is pretty stupid, but thats my opinion. Yes you will get attention if your carrying an Assault Rifle around cause its an "Assault Rifle". Honestly I am bothered as theres a difference between carrying and carrying for attention since he was video taping himself. My view point is this, your video taping yourself carrying around an AK47, yes of course you will get attention, saying you don't want attention is a lie considering on what your doing. Nothing against the guy or trying to flame him by any means, but I think carrying around something like that is a bit stupid. Not trying to ruffel any feathers here, but thats just my opinion.
    And civilian AK is not an assault rifle, unless you listen to the media. I think it is ignorant to not know what a assault rifle is, while claiming a semi automatic rifle is a assault rifle. This site IMO supports video, and audio taping, now if he reported himself to get attention you might have a point.

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    open carry of a long gun is ok

    I think talk of open carry of long guns can be legitimate talk... i have open carried my "Assault Rifle" (and its technically refered to a semi-automatic rifle). I had a legitamate purpose to carry so i did so. I walked the mile to the sporting goods store on back roads and the cops were called en route to my dads house on the way. I dropped my boys off with my dad and continued on to the store. I walked within blocks of the police station and entered the store. Thats when i found out the police were looking. I got the part for my rifle and left. I walked back to get my boys and this time walked home along the hyway as to not try and "avoid" the police... they never made contact.

    I also open carry my rifle mounted in my truck window...

    how is this not good open carry practice?

    Mods dont be such a hard A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    And civilian AK is not an assault rifle, unless you listen to the media. I think it is ignorant to not know what a assault rifle is, while claiming a semi automatic rifle is a assault rifle. This site IMO supports video, and audio taping, now if he reported himself to get attention you might have a point.
    Beat me to the punch

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    And civilian AK is not an assault rifle, unless you listen to the media. I think it is ignorant to not know what a assault rifle is, while claiming a semi automatic rifle is a assault rifle. This site IMO supports video, and audio taping, now if he reported himself to get attention you might have a point.
    There is no single defined description on what constitutes an assault rifle. Generically, we refer to those military style guns that are either full automatic capable or fire in multi-round bursts as being assault guns.

    The AK47 variant that we routinely buy is actually a Wassenaar Arrangement Semiautomatic Rifles (more commonly referred to as the WASR series rifles) are export-oriented, semi-automatic versions.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WASR_series_rifles

    But even these WASRs are not necessarily assault rifles in all states.

    Virginia defines an assault firearm quite differently:
    "For purposes of this section, "assault firearm" means any semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock."
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...+18.2-308.2C01

    Hence: an AK47/WASR with a 20 rd magazine, fixed stock and not built with a threaded barrel or permanent suppressor is NOT an assault rifle in VA. Still these are only potentially illegal in certain larger, listed cities and counties only IF you do not possess a permit (CHP) which would make such legal for you.
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-287.4

    Confused yet? There are other states that have their own state specific law(s) that would cover this.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    There is no single defined description on what constitutes an assault rifle. Generically, we refer to those military style guns that are either full automatic capable or fire in multi-round bursts as being assault guns.

    The AK47 variant that we routinely buy is actually a Wassenaar Arrangement Semiautomatic Rifles (more commonly referred to as the WASR series rifles) are export-oriented, semi-automatic versions.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WASR_series_rifles

    But even these WASRs are not necessarily assault rifles in all states.

    Virginia defines an assault firearm quite differently:
    "For purposes of this section, "assault firearm" means any semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock."
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...+18.2-308.2C01

    Hence: an AK47/WASR with a 20 rd magazine, fixed stock and not built with a threaded barrel or permanent suppressor is NOT an assault rifle in VA. Still these are only potentially illegal in certain larger, listed cities and counties only IF you do not possess a permit (CHP) which would make such legal for you.
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-287.4

    Confused yet? There are other states that have their own state specific law(s) that would cover this.
    Ohhh I understand that politicians make laws to place fear of a weapon/gun on appearance. Overall the German army I believe coined assault rifle. And a ruger 10/22 could be classified as a assault rifle when it clearly does not look like a assault rifle. Though one could paint the stock black and affix a bayonet to it.

    I hate using Wiki but I didn't feel like digging for another site to document where the term originated. Just because a politician attaches a fear word to a gun, and gets away with it does not make it correct.

    "The term assault rifle is a translation of the German word Sturmgewehr (literally "storm rifle", as in "to storm a position"). The name was coined by Adolf Hitler[3] to describe the Maschinenpistole 43, subsequently renamed Sturmgewehr 44, the firearm generally considered the first assault rifle that served to popularise the concept and form the basis for today's modern assault rifles.

    The translation assault rifle gradually became the common term for similar firearms sharing the same technical definition as the StG 44. In a strict definition, a firearm must have at least the following characteristics to be considered an assault rifle:[4][5][6]

    It must be an individual weapon with provision to fire from the shoulder (i.e. a buttstock);
    It must be capable of selective fire;
    It must have an intermediate-power cartridge: more power than a pistol but less than a standard rifle or battle rifle;
    Its ammunition must be supplied from a detachable magazine rather than a feed-belt.
    And it should at least have a firing range of 300 meters (1000 feet)

    Rifles that meet most of these criteria, but not all, are technically not assault rifles despite frequently being considered as such. For example, semi-automatic-only rifles like the AR-15 (which the M16 rifle is based on) that share designs with assault rifles are not assault rifles, as they are not capable of switching to automatic fire and thus are not selective fire capable. Belt-fed weapons or rifles with fixed magazines are likewise not assault rifles because they do not have detachable box magazines.

    The term "assault rifle" is often more loosely used for commercial or political reasons to include other types of arms, particularly arms that fall under a strict definition of the battle rifle, or semi-automatic variant of military rifles such as AR-15s.

    The US Army defines assault rifles as "short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachinegun and rifle cartridges."[7]"

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nny420 View Post
    I think talk of open carry of long guns can be legitimate talk... snip..............

    Mods dont be such a hard A.
    Not being hard at all - you're taking shots at the site owners when you suggest being allowed to violate their rules on their private property because you think something is or should be OK.

    The very fact that the thread was allowed to remain active up to this point should tell you something - initially the thread was about a 4th amendment right while carrying a gun. If and when it evolves into a discussion about whether or not anyone has the privilege to promote long gun carry or argue for inclusion of same on OCDO, then the record will be set straight and this thread likely locked.

    Further, depending on the extent of such transgression, the user/poster could be the subject of potential sanctions.

    OCDO is not against long guns, not at all. This is just NOT the place for it. It does not fit the intent or design criteria of the forum.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWCook View Post
    ....saying you don't want attention is a lie considering on what your doing
    Foolish statement. I hear the same thing from idiots who say say OC a hand gun = attention getting.

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    Regular Member MainelyGlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    (14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules
    Sorry Grape. The fact he was carrying a long gun isn't what I was trying to focus on, but this did still violate the rules so please close/delete if you deem it necessary.


    I wonder if this guy ever got his CCW permit? Or if he's now 8 stories underground in a Siberian detention center.
    Once more into the fray.
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  19. #19
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MainelyGlock View Post
    Sorry Grape. The fact he was carrying a long gun isn't what I was trying to focus on, but this did still violate the rules so please close/delete if you deem it necessary.


    I wonder if this guy ever got his CCW permit? Or if he's now 8 stories underground in a Siberian detention center.
    Aware that wasn't your intention.

    I see the video as a demonstration of knowing the law and standing up for ones rights. We may or may not agree with the actor's style and methodology, but he is on solid ground. The real problem I have with his conduct is that he doesn't seem to be aware of the need to court public perception - we are in the midst a marketing campaign to further the RKBA. He may win the battle but cause great collateral damage.

    Had he been OCing a properly holstered handgun, the fit with OCDO would have been obvious. Leaving the thread for now in so long as the discussion doesn't return to the promotion of or argument for inclusion of long guns on OCDO.

    Conduct, style and attitude while OCing are legitimate concerns and open for discussion.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    SNIP

    I see the video as a demonstration of knowing the law and standing up for ones rights. We may or may not agree with the actor's style and methodology, but he is on solid ground. The real problem I have with his conduct is that he doesn't seem to be aware of the need to court public perception - we are in the midst a marketing campaign to further the RKBA. He may win the battle but cause great collateral damage.
    Agreed. However, I see one serious flaw... he's talking to the police. Maybe I missed it but, I didn't hear him ask "am I free to go". This video is a good lesson on how NOT to engage in investigatory conversation with law enforcement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Had he been OCing a properly holstered handgun, the fit with OCDO would have been obvious. Leaving the thread for now in so long as the discussion doesn't return to the promotion of or argument for inclusion of long guns on OCDO.

    Conduct, style and attitude while OCing are legitimate concerns and open for discussion.
    Those wishing to discuss "long gun" carry MAY accomplish the same thing by considering AK-47 or Ar-15 type pistols... as long as they're properly holstered.

    Whatcha think Grape?
    Last edited by georg jetson; 07-09-2012 at 01:17 PM.

  21. #21
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    --snip--


    Those wishing to discuss "long gun" carry MAY accomplish the same thing by considering AK-47 or Ar-15 type pistols... as long as they're properly holstered.

    Whatcha think Grape?
    Brings up an interesting point - one that has been a source of much discussion before on OCDO.

    Let me first preface this by saying I do not speak for John or Mike. These are entirely my own observations.

    The very purpose of this site is to further the right of all good people to have the tool(s) to defend themselves and carry in a manner they choose. OC expresses that in a way that CC never will be capable of demonstrating.

    Set aside for the purpose of this discussion the "it's my right" argument and leave the law books closed.

    Let's talk about public perception and public opinion - moving the ball forward one convert at a time. That convert might be a soccer mom, a member of the Virginia House of Delegates, a police officer, or a gas station attendant. OCDO has up until now defined OC as carrying properly holstered handguns as we go about our normal everyday life. We continually point out that such is not a threat to anyone........and we are winning based on that point and the facts that back it up. OC is legal in 43 states now, I believe - what a difference from just a few short years ago!

    OCDO has made it clear that long guns are not bad. The public's perception though, while somewhat depended on the area, is not so positive - it might be said to be where OC was 30-35 years ago. It was frowned upon by the general urban public. One can push too hard and too fast and great loss portends.

    So some (like here) suggest pistol variants of AKs and the like. Problem is that the general public (same group) doesn't see the difference - they see it as more of the same and we suffer the backlash. We stomp on our own foot and cry out but it is legal. Then when the courts or our state governments say "not any more it isn't" we really start to cry and moan. We will blame the politicians rather than our own negative public relations efforts - our ill thought out conduct.

    I can conceive of an extreme situation whereby the forum would be forced to state certain variants of certain guns would not be considered normal OC. John has thus far avoided doing that and I am sure he would prefer to continue along the same path. BUT remember that OCDO is private property and that the decision(s) of the judges owners is binding on all of us. If for no other reason than that, I would never recommend that that avenue be pursued with any vigor.

    I personally know and have had contact with a very responsible young man who carries himself well and makes a good overall impression. I like him and respect him - he carries an AK pistol variant at sling arms, muzzle down. I wish he would not. He is making his personal statement and I respect that, but I am glad that there were not 150 more like him at our Lobby Day in our General Assembly Building. Think there might well have been a good possibility that we could have lost our right to carry in the halls, committee rooms and sessions of our House of Delegates if public perception moved against us as a result. Take note: we in VA can carry in the GAB and our Capital Bldg. OK it is only if we have a CHP, but we can & do carry openly.

    We have a lot more to do yet and here on OCDO we need to be cognizant that like any other group we have leaders we set the guidelines. I just don't see that it is too much to ask that we abide by both the formal rules and the spirit. It's simply good manners.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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