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Thread: Health care law ‘here to stay,’ president insists

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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Health care law ‘here to stay,’ president insists

    Thank God he isn't.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ealth-penalty/

    As confident as I am this idiot is a one term mistake, I'm even more confident obozocare will go just as far as his closing Gitmo did.
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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    It may just be my stupid mind grapes throwing up observations I'm trying to ignore but do you really think this health care act is going to be repealed? I mean the only person in a position to replace Obama signed into law, as Gov. of Mass, his own individual mandate health care law.

    This health care infliction is a great and logical step on the road to a completely controllable populous.... The goal of both parties.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    No.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    If the GOTP doesn't have a replacement, it will stand.

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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    Obama is right. The health care law IS here to stay.

    Did you see Mitch Mconell in the interview a few days ago trying to explain how the GOP was going to dismantle the law ? He couldnt answer a single question.

    The GOP is a big government party that rarely ever shrinks government.

    The democrats wont repeal Obama Care and the GOP wont do it.

    The only hope is that more Tea Party members win seats but I am losing faith in them as well.

    President Obama is right, Obama Care is here to stay.
    As much as the GOP elites like Mconell are trying to resist the popular tea party uprising, they're under considerable pressure to give in to popular demands clamoring for an end to this abysmal law. If they fail to do so, their party will be destroyed, and their power lost completely. I'm not losing faith in the tea party. They've been maligned by the media and leftist loudmouths for 3 years, yet they still have won a number of significant races even after the 2010 pounding. I choose to maintain my optimism that the left is out of favor, and that libertarian ideas are gaining in popularity in spite of what "progressive" pop culture icons would have us believe.

    I also saw he interview, and yes, Mconell sounded like a stammering fool. We don't want the law replaced and he knows it. We want the government to withdraw even more regulations, pass tort reform, and cut the waste from current medical subsidies. That would do far more to reduce medical costs than any pie in the sky moonbat laws.

    BTW, if health care is a "right", can we pass a law that mandates everyone buy an M4 carbine and maintain a stock of ammo?
    Last edited by PrayingForWar; 07-06-2012 at 10:37 AM.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    It is here to stay, the republicans really do not want to repeal it, just paying us lip service. This is the similar to social security, most Americans will accept it as long as it makes them feel comfortable. They take away our liberty one sliver at a time, until we accept it. The high court could not toss it out without putting social security in jeopardy, I suspect that is why Roberts switched.

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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    It is here to stay, the republicans really do not want to repeal it, just paying us lip service. This is the similar to social security, most Americans will accept it as long as it makes them feel comfortable. They take away our liberty one sliver at a time, until we accept it. The high court could not toss it out without putting social security in jeopardy, I suspect that is why Roberts switched.
    Social security is in jeopardy regardless. When it was enacted families generally multiplied. Now some families don't even have 3 kids let alone any multiplicity. If 2 elderly adults only have 2 kids and 4 grandkids on average the amount of money to support the eldest generations will be too burdensome. Especially when the money to support them is collectivised and has to pass through the hands of countless incompetent bureaucrats before getting back to the people it's intended to support.

    I can't see how SS is sustainable regardless of what sort of shell game TPTB play. It has to go as well.

    In the mean time I don't think that abomination has anything to do with the obamination that needs to immediately be repealed.

    From what I read of the Roberts' descision is that the ball is in our court. The people elected these clowns, and if we allow them to set up collective farms, gulags, and tear down all the remnats of religion and capitalism it's our own fault. I think Roberts made a bad choice, but it's clear he did it from a leadership position that forces our nation to either swim or drown to death.

    I maintain my confidence that maintaining pressure on the elected a$$hats will reverse "progressive" slavery to the state.
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    Well the law is now considered a tax from how the supreme court rule right? Well the last time I check ONLY the House is allowed to originate taxes not the senate in which obama care originated from not the house, so it should be considered unconstitutional should it not?

    Article I Section 7 of the US constitution says
    Section 7.

    All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills.

    Every bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a law, be presented to the President of the United States; if he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the objections at large on their journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the bill, it shall be sent, together with the objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a law. But in all such cases the votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and nays, and the names of the persons voting for and against the bill shall be entered on the journal of each House respectively. If any bill shall not be returned by the President within ten days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the same shall be a law, in like manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their adjournment prevent its return, in which case it shall not be a law.






    http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Article1
    Last edited by zack991; 07-07-2012 at 10:30 AM.
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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Indeed, but the court did not rule on the path the law took, even though it would have been the easy way. Roberts threw the blame in the voter's lap for allowing the marxist left into power in the first place. We have to continue to show up at the polls and pay attention to the things these a$$holes do while in office.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrayingForWar View Post
    Indeed, but the court did not rule on the path the law took, even though it would have been the easy way. Roberts threw the blame in the voter's lap for allowing the marxist left into power in the first place. We have to continue to show up at the polls and pay attention to the things these a$$holes do while in office.
    Roberts the one who claims to be an originalist? Arrogant men in black think we are too dumb to understand, so they get to make idiotic rationalizations and since they are the final word in their oligarchy too bad.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
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    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Roberts the one who claims to be an originalist? Arrogant men in black think we are too dumb to understand, so they get to make idiotic rationalizations and since they are the final word in their oligarchy too bad.
    Someone pissed about the Conservative Justice? You want to take your toys home with you now?
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrayingForWar View Post
    Social security is in jeopardy regardless. When it was enacted families generally multiplied. Now some families don't even have 3 kids let alone any multiplicity. If 2 elderly adults only have 2 kids and 4 grandkids on average the amount of money to support the eldest generations will be too burdensome.
    So far, the arguments have been limited to the system paying for itself. Similar systems used by other countries are often funded from all tax sources.

    As for Obamacare being a done deal, it's far from it:

    1. If the GOP controls the Presidency, Senate, and House, it's gone.

    2. If the GOP controls the Presidency and House, it won't be implemented.

    3. If the GOP controls nothing, a number of state governors have already declared they will not implement it on the basis that regardless of what SCOTUS says, it remains un-Constitutional. Their justification is their oath of office, to the U.S. Constitution, and not to any chain of command, including the President, Congress, or SCOTUS. As a retired military officer, I'm inclined to agree with them. Their actions are not revolutionary, but lawful and Constitutional. In fact, anyone who has taken such an oath has a duty to fulfill it, regardless of what one's chain of command is doing, but especially if what's coming down from on high is itself unlawful.

    4. If that's a wash, then countless people are dead set on ignoring it, as well.

    When you put 3 and 4 together -- of, by, and for the people -- all that leaves are some bewildered politicians in Washington wondering why their efforts are disappearing into a thin vacuum.

    WE THE PEOPLE really are the supreme governmental authority in our country. Our government cannot function without the consent of the governed.
    Last edited by since9; 07-08-2012 at 03:15 AM.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Someone pissed about the Conservative Justice? You want to take your toys home with you now?
    Why do you insist I am "conservative". I fit both the definitions of conservative and liberal, and am considered a classical liberal by many.

    Roberts is not a "conservative" justice from my point of view, neither are most those who voted against the bill either. According to the justices I have to share my toys and can't take them all home I have to share them with you whether I like it or not. It is immoral, theft is theft whether it is you stealing things from your neighbor or you getting together with your friends and voting someone to do it.

    Thomas Jefferson,
    "to consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions (is) a very dangerous doctrine indeed, and one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy."
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 07-08-2012 at 09:53 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Roberts the one who claims to be an originalist? Arrogant men in black think we are too dumb to understand, so they get to make idiotic rationalizations and since they are the final word in their oligarchy too bad.
    I didn't hear Roberts call himself an originalist, I've heard people call Thomas and Scalia (among some pretty vulgar things) that though. Regardless of his politics, and in spite of my disagreement with his ruling he did make a point. It's up to the people to elect the representatives and make sure they do their jobs.

    Since9 is correct that the war is not over, and I don't see how the moonbats actually "won" this battle. They're now stuck defending a law (and a blithering idiot president) that is increasingly unpopular.

    Lets not forget how many democrats of the 1950's were extreme anti-communists. They may have leaned a little left, but they were far from the openly marxist ********** that control the party now. The commies incrementally took over the DNC. Those of us with a more libertarian bent need to wrest control of the GOP from the elitist DC country clubers who seem content with "compromise". Which is nothing more than moving the country a little less to the left than the bed wetters would prefer to.

    One thing I left out...

    One of the major problems with HC in our country is the fault of the SC, which FORCED care givers to provide treatment to people who cannot pay. You want to see some real waste? Go to an ER on any given night and count how many homeless people are there getting a good nights sleep after a battery of tests to discover why the ambulance had to bring in an unresponsive drunk off the sidewalk.
    Last edited by PrayingForWar; 07-08-2012 at 01:11 PM. Reason: Left out something
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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Someone pissed about the Conservative Justice? You want to take your toys home with you now?
    SVG was never playing with you in the first place. You jumped the fence, pissed in his sandbox and demanded half of his TONKA toys. Then you insisted he clean up your wet half of the sandbox.

    BTW, what happened to the obozo bowing to the burger king Icon? That was the best one.
    If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training. You will become a minister of death, PRAYING FOR WAR...

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrayingForWar View Post
    SVG was never playing with you in the first place. You jumped the fence, pissed in his sandbox and demanded half of his TONKA toys. Then you insisted he clean up your wet half of the sandbox.

    BTW, what happened to the obozo bowing to the burger king Icon? That was the best one.
    I decided to switch the icons around a bit. I have a few that are pretty awesome. BTW, I pee'd standing up. BTW (2), I can't wait for the 50 buck hand-out you are going to owe me...I mean, the 50 buck bet you are going to lose come this November when your darling Romney loses. BTW, BTW, BTW, I hope you consider that 50 bucks a tax.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 07-08-2012 at 05:21 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Gambling is illegal, but then you are a liberal so laws only count for others.

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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I decided to switch the icons around a bit. I have a few that are pretty awesome. BTW, I pee'd standing up. BTW (2), I can't wait for the 50 buck hand-out you are going to owe me...I mean, the 50 buck bet you are going to lose come this November when your darling Romney loses. BTW, BTW, BTW, I hope you consider that 50 bucks a tax.
    My dear lady, I will consider it a violent mugging in every aspect. Not only is Romney NOT my darling I'm disgusted by the fact I have to cast a vote for him after I treat myself to a nice dinner and a bottle of wine. I'll have a cigarette afterwards and a long hot shower before watching the results on FOX, since the comentary of every other outlet will be too insipid too stomach. Should your moonbat messiah defeat the odds and manage to win I will either ship to you a $50 gift certificate, or a variety of beers between 3-5 bucks per bottle that I like.

    I noticed "The Donkey" has been silent since this bet was initiated between him and I, but I'm glad you jumped in.
    If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training. You will become a minister of death, PRAYING FOR WAR...

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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Gambling is illegal, but then you are a liberal so laws only count for others.
    A wager between friends is not gambling.
    If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training. You will become a minister of death, PRAYING FOR WAR...

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    Of course this illogical and unconstitutional law is here to stay. The Democrats and Republicans are both in bed with big pharma and the insurance industry and they both want this law to stay and take effect. Our only option at this point is to pressure our state legislators to pass legislation into law that will exempt the citizens of their state from participating in this fraud. The Supreme Court has already stated the states can opt out without worry of retaliation. The states can nullify this legislation for the citizens of their state and there is nothing the Federal Government can do about them doing so. The Supreme Court stated in their opinion that if the states do decide to opt out then they can't be victims of retaliation by the Federal Government because the Fed's can't take away any Federal Funds for doing so. We need to concentrate our efforts at the state level, and quit fooling with these Federal bums who want nothing more than to make their pockets fat and destroy our liberties while doing so.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

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    Regular Member Mas49.56's Avatar
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    Can anyone name one entitlement in the history of the United States that has ever been repealed? IMHO time is now going to stand still in 2014. Any new tech, meds, cures, etc... will now mostly come from other countries. We will not be able to apply most of the discoveries here, because of lack of resources. If you're not rich or don't have friends in medicine, good luck waiting up to a year for that routine surgery to be performed. People will die waiting on recources. I so hope I'm wrong, but I'm already working 60 hour weeks. How many more patients can we take with funds being cut and no money for extra staff or equipment? This is crazy, the system may collapse. Or maybe I'm too tired tonight and just need some sleep. Goodnight.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    The most important part of the ruling is that it set a HUGE precendent limiting the powers of the federal government under the commerce clause.

    If they court had ruled Obama Care constitutional under the commerce clause then America would have been SCREWED.

    The tax portion at least gives power back to the people via congress.
    Dicta


    The SCOTUS ruling, or Robert's majority opinion, is dicta.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    The most important part of the ruling is that it set a HUGE precendent limiting the powers of the federal government under the commerce clause.

    If they court had ruled Obama Care constitutional under the commerce clause then America would have been SCREWED.

    The tax portion at least gives power back to the people via congress.
    DING-DING-DING-DING-DING!!! YES!!! And Congress, beginning with the House, is gearing up to wield that power in a manner worthy of a leadership role in the United States Government: Article.

    Their effort may not win in the Senate. If not, we'll simply have to replace the libtards with Senators who have a clue.
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    Regular Member DangerClose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    If they court had ruled Obama Care constitutional under the commerce clause then America would have been SCREWED.

    The tax portion at least gives power back to the people via congress.
    Now we can pass laws that say having an AR-15 is important to personal security and anyone who doesn't have one will be taxed a fine.

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    Something else that should be noted is this legislation originated in the Senate. Because the United States Constitution is the supreme law of the land, the AHA is already null and void. The Constitution states: "All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives." Since this legislation has been ruled a tax and not a penalty, it is already illegitimate because it is a bill to raise revenue that did not originate in the House.

    It should also be mentioned that this bill will destroy numerous American families because the PENALTY after the first 2 years is over $2,000 per year per person! We know that insurance alone for a family or even a single person will be unaffordable for the average American, and the PENALTY will also devastate their yearly income. This legislation is bad anyway you look at it. We are going to destroy the working families and the health care industry at the same time. Elderly people will no longer receive care, the government will decide who gets what services, and the lucky ones that will get service will wait for years before doing so. This legislation is the DEATH of America!
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 07-10-2012 at 11:30 PM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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