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Health care law ‘here to stay,’ president insists

Ca Patriot

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The most important part of the ruling is that it set a HUGE precendent limiting the powers of the federal government under the commerce clause.

If they court had ruled Obama Care constitutional under the commerce clause then America would have been SCREWED.

The tax portion at least gives power back to the people via congress.
 

KYGlockster

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Ashland, KY
Of course this illogical and unconstitutional law is here to stay. The Democrats and Republicans are both in bed with big pharma and the insurance industry and they both want this law to stay and take effect. Our only option at this point is to pressure our state legislators to pass legislation into law that will exempt the citizens of their state from participating in this fraud. The Supreme Court has already stated the states can opt out without worry of retaliation. The states can nullify this legislation for the citizens of their state and there is nothing the Federal Government can do about them doing so. The Supreme Court stated in their opinion that if the states do decide to opt out then they can't be victims of retaliation by the Federal Government because the Fed's can't take away any Federal Funds for doing so. We need to concentrate our efforts at the state level, and quit fooling with these Federal bums who want nothing more than to make their pockets fat and destroy our liberties while doing so.
 

Mas49.56

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Florida, USA
Can anyone name one entitlement in the history of the United States that has ever been repealed? IMHO time is now going to stand still in 2014. Any new tech, meds, cures, etc... will now mostly come from other countries. We will not be able to apply most of the discoveries here, because of lack of resources. If you're not rich or don't have friends in medicine, good luck waiting up to a year for that routine surgery to be performed. People will die waiting on recources. I so hope I'm wrong, but I'm already working 60 hour weeks. How many more patients can we take with funds being cut and no money for extra staff or equipment? This is crazy, the system may collapse. Or maybe I'm too tired tonight and just need some sleep. Goodnight.
 

OC for ME

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The most important part of the ruling is that it set a HUGE precendent limiting the powers of the federal government under the commerce clause.

If they court had ruled Obama Care constitutional under the commerce clause then America would have been SCREWED.

The tax portion at least gives power back to the people via congress.
Dicta


The SCOTUS ruling, or Robert's majority opinion, is dicta.
 

since9

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Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
The most important part of the ruling is that it set a HUGE precendent limiting the powers of the federal government under the commerce clause.

If they court had ruled Obama Care constitutional under the commerce clause then America would have been SCREWED.

The tax portion at least gives power back to the people via congress.

DING-DING-DING-DING-DING!!! YES!!! And Congress, beginning with the House, is gearing up to wield that power in a manner worthy of a leadership role in the United States Government: Article.

Their effort may not win in the Senate. If not, we'll simply have to replace the libtards with Senators who have a clue.
 

DangerClose

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The mean streets of WI
If they court had ruled Obama Care constitutional under the commerce clause then America would have been SCREWED.

The tax portion at least gives power back to the people via congress.
Now we can pass laws that say having an AR-15 is important to personal security and anyone who doesn't have one will be taxed a fine.
 

KYGlockster

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Something else that should be noted is this legislation originated in the Senate. Because the United States Constitution is the supreme law of the land, the AHA is already null and void. The Constitution states: "All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives." Since this legislation has been ruled a tax and not a penalty, it is already illegitimate because it is a bill to raise revenue that did not originate in the House.

It should also be mentioned that this bill will destroy numerous American families because the PENALTY after the first 2 years is over $2,000 per year per person! We know that insurance alone for a family or even a single person will be unaffordable for the average American, and the PENALTY will also devastate their yearly income. This legislation is bad anyway you look at it. We are going to destroy the working families and the health care industry at the same time. Elderly people will no longer receive care, the government will decide who gets what services, and the lucky ones that will get service will wait for years before doing so. This legislation is the DEATH of America!
 
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since9

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Some Dems are joining in on the repeal effort!

The GOP lambasted the 2-year-old law as a threat to the nation's economic recovery and predicted some Democrats would join them in repudiating it. "This is nothing short of economic malpractice," said Rep. Nan Hayworth of New York, citing tax increases, government mandates and other items in the law. "We can and we must do better." - Article

And guess what? Some did! "Ahead of Wednesday's vote, at least two House Democrats have indicated plans to side with a majority of Republicans to reject portions of the law. " - Another article
 

The Donkey

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We don't want the law replaced and he knows it. We want the government to . . . pass tort reform. . . .

And, pray, just where does the Constitution give Congress the authority to pass laws governing the procedures that states must follow in medical malpractice cases, or the damages that can be awarded in these cases in state court -- where virtually all of these cases are decided?
 

The Donkey

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As for Obamacare being a done deal, it's far from it:

1. If the GOP controls the Presidency, Senate, and House, it's gone.

2. If the GOP controls the Presidency and House, it won't be implemented.

3. If the GOP controls nothing, a number of state governors have already declared they will not implement it on the basis that regardless of what SCOTUS says, it remains un-Constitutional. Their justification is their oath of office, to the U.S. Constitution, and not to any chain of command, including the President, Congress, or SCOTUS. As a retired military officer, I'm inclined to agree with them. Their actions are not revolutionary, but lawful and Constitutional. In fact, anyone who has taken such an oath has a duty to fulfill it, regardless of what one's chain of command is doing, but especially if what's coming down from on high is itself unlawful.

4. If that's a wash, then countless people are dead set on ignoring it, as well.

When you put 3 and 4 together -- of, by, and for the people -- all that leaves are some bewildered politicians in Washington wondering why their efforts are disappearing into a thin vacuum.

WE THE PEOPLE really are the supreme governmental authority in our country. Our government cannot function without the consent of the governed.

Romney's claims that he can undo the law on day 1 are lies -- like virtually everything else he has had to say on health care: he would need 60 GOP votes in the Senate to do that, and there is no way he will get them.

The best he might do is try to make an insane mess of it by trying to repeal its funding provisions through reconciliation, if the GOP controls both houses: and if they try that, the GOP will not control either house after two years.

See http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...dent/2012/07/10/gJQAh4nmaW_story.html?hpid=z2
 

since9

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The best he might do is try to make an insane mess of it by trying to repeal its funding provisions through reconciliation, if the GOP controls both houses: and if they try that, the GOP will not control either house after two years.

Given the fact that 2/3 of Americans don't want Obamacare, I think you're incorrect. Citizens will gladly re-elect Congressmen who have the spines to overturn this monstrosity, and the Dems know it.
 

The Donkey

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My dear lady, I will consider it a violent mugging in every aspect. Not only is Romney NOT my darling I'm disgusted by the fact I have to cast a vote for him after I treat myself to a nice dinner and a bottle of wine. I'll have a cigarette afterwards and a long hot shower before watching the results on FOX, since the comentary of every other outlet will be too insipid too stomach. Should your moonbat messiah defeat the odds and manage to win I will either ship to you a $50 gift certificate, or a variety of beers between 3-5 bucks per bottle that I like.

I noticed "The Donkey" has been silent since this bet was initiated between him and I, but I'm glad you jumped in.

Silent, but watchful.

spying.gif


Now what was that bet again?
 

The Donkey

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Given the fact that 2/3 of Americans don't want Obamacare, I think you're incorrect. Citizens will gladly re-elect Congressmen who have the spines to overturn this monstrosity, and the Dems know it.

You must have missed the following from the article you cite above:

An ABC News/Washington Post poll released Tuesday (pdf) found that Americans are currently evenly divided—47 percent to 47 percent—in their support and opposition for the law following the Supreme Court ruling. And just 18 percent of respondents expressed support for full repeal.Respondents divided evenly—28-28 percent—on whether they'd be more likely to support or oppose a congressional candidate who backs the health care reform law. Forty-one percent said the candidate's position wouldn't make a difference.

Perhaps some of those 18 percent who support full repeal would approve of officeholders who tried to subvert (as opposed to repeal) the law. But most voters would just blame them for the mess they would create.
 

END_THE_FED

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Something else that should be noted is this legislation originated in the Senate. Because the United States Constitution is the supreme law of the land, the AHA is already null and void. The Constitution states: "All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives." Since this legislation has been ruled a tax and not a penalty, it is already illegitimate because it is a bill to raise revenue that did not originate in the House....................................


I was thinking the same thing until I took a closer look at the bill. The Senate version that passed was actually amending a house bill. I am at work and can not post the bill right now, but will try to remember to do it when I get home.

They basically took a house bill, struck everything after the title, and inserted the health care bill as an amendment.
 
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JoeSparky

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Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
I was thinking the same thing until I took a closer look at the bill. The Senate version that passed was actually amending a house bill. I am at work and can not post the bill right now, but will try to remember to do it when I get home.

They basically took a house bill, struck everything after the title, and inserted the health care bill as an amendment.

And since the House NEVER actually voted on the reconciliation bill (the Senate "DEEMED" that House had passed it) couldn't someone with standing make a strong arguement for unconstitiionallity of the Monstrosity known as OBAMACARE?
 

The Donkey

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The poll received the results that ABC News/WashPo wanted.....bogus poll.....as usual.

The poll questions are included in the PDF of the survey results, which are linked to above. The survey was conducted by an independent firm.

And much as I might wish that some of the survey results were different, there is nothing suggesting bias.

Perhaps you think the survey "bogus" because it is in tension with the oft-repeated Word Doctors narrative that "Obamacare" is overwhelmingly "unpopular" -- that Obama is "shoving it down our throats."

"ObamaCare" is just the 2004-09 republican "alternative" -- it is accurately called RomneyCare -- but might also be called GingrichCare, HeritageFoundationCare, or Pick-A-Center-Right-Republican-Care. Romney not only adopted it in Massachusetts, he promoted it on the sunday morning talk show circuit early in Obama's presidency as an alternative to the Kennedy/Obama plan when Romney thought it might help him become everybody's daddy. (How's that for core values?)

It was then "shoved down" Obama's throat by Congress after the democrats dithered, and Obama discovered he couldn't get the 60 votes he needed in the Senate for his own plan. The democratic left was disappointed -- they wanted "Medicare for All" -- and in the end didn't even get their paltry "public option." The left's disappointment -- and not just Tea Party/libertarians' outrage -- shows in the 2010 polling results.

For a while, the Romneys and Palins and Frank Luntzs of the world had some success inventing lie after lie about this republican invented law, leaving Obama and other democratic incumbents to play whack-a-mole, and many people confused and concerned about what the law is and how it might work. The 2010-2011 polling results reflect that -- and that is what those blessed souls on the House floor tried to revive today.

But the right has overplayed its hand: the recent focus on the law's implementation, the Supreme Court's decision, and Romney's duplicity have informed the previously perplexed public enough that they perceive -- whatever the law's problems -- that republican soap salesmen have been pushing a load of hoo-ha. People now want benefits like the abolition of pre-existing condition exclusions, and think that what Romney termed an "individual responsibility penalty" is not such a bad way to get these benefits. They are saying (to paraphrase GWB) "fool me once Romney-Palin-Luntz . . . I won't get fooled again."

And that is what poll figures -- like the 82% who do not favor complete repeal of the ACA -- show.
 
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PrayingForWar

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Sep 9, 2007
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You are on! If Obama loses in 2012 OR the democrats do not pick up seats in the House in 2012, you get a night of free beer on me the next time you get to the DC Metropolitan area. On the other hand, if Obama wins AND the Democrats pick up seats in the House, then I will expect beer from you whenever I am next in . . . wherever it is that you are.

I believe we settled on mailing each other select bottles of fine brews since we're not likely to occupy the same region within the next decade.

The poll received the results that ABC News/WashPo wanted.....bogus poll.....as usual.

As far as I know, ABS and the Washington Compost cater to liberals. I wouldn't have bothered answering any of their polls if I accidentally ended up on their site. I suspect many conservatives feel the same way. I'm also certain that they have a list of moonbats they call in order to get the results they want.
 

PrayingForWar

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And, pray, just where does the Constitution give Congress the authority to pass laws governing the procedures that states must follow in medical malpractice cases, or the damages that can be awarded in these cases in state court -- where virtually all of these cases are decided?

Good point, but it could still be a state issue. Then we should see significant rate cuts in states that have passed Tort Reform, especially if insurers are allowed to compete across state lines.

Romney's claims that he can undo the law on day 1 are lies -- like virtually everything else he has had to say on health care: he would need 60 GOP votes in the Senate to do that, and there is no way he will get them.

The best he might do is try to make an insane mess of it by trying to repeal its funding provisions through reconciliation, if the GOP controls both houses: and if they try that, the GOP will not control either house after two years.

See http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...dent/2012/07/10/gJQAh4nmaW_story.html?hpid=z2

I don't believe that's correct. Since the law was validated as a tax, the senate would only need a %51 majority to repeal it. I'm confident we will see yet another shift of power into the hands of the republicans, and I already see a few democrats crossing the line on this issue, and that's why dirty Harry won't allow it on the senate floor.
 
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