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Thread: Open Carry WITHOUT a recording device?

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    Open Carry WITHOUT a recording device?

    My question for all of you is who OC's and does not use a recording device of any kind? Maybe it is me being new but I just do not feel paranoid enough to record my whole day every day.

  2. #2
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    No one says you have to. Go with your gut but don't cry about it if you do need a recording one day....and where you live, chances are good you will.

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    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    You don't need to record every day or maintain an archive of days.

    The reason most record the whole day is to make sure it's recording in case anything happens. If nothing happens, one just deletes the day.

    If you want to be ready to record any
    Encounters you deem worth recording, it's a lot easier to not to be fumbling with the device and attracting attention to it in the process.

  4. #4
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComradeV View Post
    You don't need to record every day or maintain an archive of days.

    The reason most record the whole day is to make sure it's recording in case anything happens. If nothing happens, one just deletes the day.

    If you want to be ready to record any
    Encounters you deem worth recording, it's a lot easier to not to be fumbling with the device and attracting attention to it in the process.
    A good example is Surry. Skidmark is an old hand at this but he just didn't think it was necessary to record that day. It would have made a big difference.
    There is another case I'm not going to get specific about right now, where he is proceeding with legal action against the Officer and probably the department, because he had a recording.

    I don't carry an audio recorder usually but always have a video recorder anyway.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    A good example is Surry. Skidmark is an old hand at this but he just didn't think it was necessary to record that day. It would have made a big difference.
    ....

    Started to turn around and get it twice! TWICE!! And told myself it was not worth the trouble. (only because they will not let me put more than 5 smilies in any single post)

    Nickle metal hydride batteries above 1000mAh allow continuous recording for at least 48 hours (my recorder has the capacity to hold 72.3hours of voice). Turn the sucker on before I open the door to go out. Leave it alone until I get home, and then usually just hit the "delete" button because nothing happened that day. I actually have more stuff archived from my conversations with the folks over at the VA hospital than I do from anything else. And usually after a few months I no longer need to keep the files any longer.

    The big point is that carying a recorder is like carrying homeowner's insurance - you could go through life never needing to file a claim, but the one time you need to it becomes worth all the premiums you paid. The <$50 you will spend for a decent recorder, two sets of NMh batteries, and a charger is well worth giving up a box of ammo.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    I was the same way OP. I never thought I would need a recorder.

    KYGlockster and I took some information to the County attorney and the County Judge Executive to fix an ordinance against state law. They seemed willing enough to fix it. The Judge even seemed happy that we brought it up, like he didn't want to be part of a law suit.

    Next time I went to the courthouse though, I was escorted out, flanked by the sheriff and some woman. In an attempt to fix that without a law suit I called back in Glockster, we tried to talk to some people and on the way out we ran into the county attorney. He was furious that I was still in the courthouse with my firearm. No man has ever talked to me like that in my life, and if wasn't for Glockster I would have had the let the sheriff arrested me and would have been living on easy street.

    I thought I was covered because Glockster recored the whole event. I was wrong. It has been a while since this took place, I can't get the audio from Glockster (for some reason), and I can't get a lawyer to talk to me without it.

    Now I never go out without my recorder.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    I love this one: http://www.amazon.com/Sony-ICD-UX512...dp/B004M8ST4U/


    I hang in on a lanyard around my neck in between my t-shirt and outer shirt. Works great. Has a USB built in so that I can dump it to any PC. Re-charges from the USB jack too so I have a Cigarette lighter/USB jack in the car. One charge records 24 hours on 2GB of built in memory.
    Carry On.

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    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    I think I met Ed for the first time about three years ago at the General Assembly. I mentioned his lanyard device and he said :

    "If I have THIS on (pointing to his sidearm), I have THIS on (showing me his recorder)."

    Possible insurance.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    If you wont leave home without your sidearm, why would you leave home w/o the item designed to protect you from potential penalty for having it.

    Hope I never need either, but just in case the SHTF I have both.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Today is a good example.

    When I got at RCD this morning, Grapeshot was outside and a Henrico Officer was in his car watching him. GS said he followed him in. Another Henrico cop pulled up and I set my helmet with the GoPro mounted on it and running, on a news stand pointed it at them, then went back to what we were talking about.

    They both got in their cars and left.

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    A few thoughts in no particular order:

    Not once has an OCer ever said after a police encounter, "I am so glad I didn't have a recorder."

    One of the OCers involved in the Tony's Incident privately kicked himself for leaving his recorder at home that evening. The police were able to deny everything the OCers complained happened inside and outside the restaurant. The police couldn't evade the in-car text messages and department e-mails obtained by FOIA, which really showed their anti-self-defense attitudes; but the nastier stuff, like the illegal seizure of seven OCers, that happened at the restaurant was all denied.

    Police can screw up even a consensual encounter, giving false information about the law, exaggerating things, revealing anti-rights attitudes. Even if they don't do anything strictly illegal, they can say the darnedest things sometimes.

    Its really hard for a bad cop or a borderline cop to lie his way through an internal affairs investigation if there is a recording. Neither can police supervisors dummy up and assert a cop did everything properly when there is a recording.

    The bottom line is that while things are generally better than they were five years ago, its not like every cop obeys the law and scrupulously observes rights. Also, things didn't get better for OCers because police decided, "Oh, my. Look at the nice citizens exercising their rights. We should support that." Uh-uh. No. Things got better because we came out swinging on rights violations. And, part of that was having recordings to prove the cops were ignoring the law, twisting the law, and violating rights.
    Last edited by Citizen; 07-07-2012 at 01:55 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gearup View Post
    Maybe it is me being new but I just do not feel paranoid enough to record my whole day every day.
    That's funny. I found that the MORE I OC'd, the more comfortable I felt doing it, THEN it started getting harder to remember to grab the recorder.

    But get this straight.... cops lie. Of all the "run-in"s I've had with cops (one, many years ago) the cops involved lied 3-4 times about facts. 100% lying trend. Count on it.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gearup View Post
    My question for all of you is who OC's and does not use a recording device of any kind? Maybe it is me being new but I just do not feel paranoid enough to record my whole day every day.

    It has nothing to do with being paranoid...

    Think of it this way... How much easier would it be to have YOUR SD incident on VC???

    Harold Fish
    George Zimmerman
    Pat Cook/ Harmon Wright
    ETC.....

    All of these folks could have benefited from having their days activities on a voice recorder, imho.


    heck,
    I'm looking into finding a reasonable priced video recorder similar in size to a tactical flashlight.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gearup View Post
    My question for all of you is who OC's and does not use a recording device of any kind? Maybe it is me being new but I just do not feel paranoid enough to record my whole day every day.

    You OC; does that make you paranoid???

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent19 View Post


    heck,
    I'm looking into finding a reasonable priced video recorder similar in size to a tactical flashlight.
    I really want one of these (but right now I'm paying for 2 houses and can't justify the cost)

    http://www.buy.com/pr/product.aspx?s...llerid=9223559

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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    You OC; does that make you paranoid???




    I have no idea what you just asked.




    Let me get one thing straight before everyone crucifies me. I am NOT suggesting that carrying a recording device is bad or wrong in any way. I am just looking to see if there is anyone else out there that thinks that well "crap that is one more piece of gear to carry". I do not really want to "suit up" for my day.

    As for me, the only reason I open carry is for the fact that is is A LOT more comfortable than CC. I am not so sure I want to assist in educating the public at least not directly. And when asked why I carry I will never JUST say "its my right". NEVER. I carry because I was mugged at gunpoint in VA Beach many years ago and will never endure that violation again without having a fighting chance. It is a demoralizing feeling of total helplessness.

    Carrying a recording device is an issue I am battling over and am looking for opinions on both sides of the issue. As for being paranoid, I have never felt that there was a need to gather evidence. Now I see many here do feel there is a need so I want to try and understand others opinions so I can see what I may or may not be missing.

  17. #17
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Look at it this way:

    I suspect you are far more likely to make use of a voice recorder to prove you committed no crime than you are to make use of your gun to defend your life against an attack from a violent criminal.

    Maybe the statistics don't bear that out, but even if they don't, I bet it's close.

    The point of the "paranoid" remark was that you carry a gun because you might need it some day to perform a very important function, saving your life or the life of a loved one from a violent attack. The reason you carry a voice recorder is not dissimilar: you might need it some day to perform a very important function, saving your freedom, and your ability to continue to live your life "on the outside" with your loved ones and friends.

    TFred

    P.S. After thinking about this for a while... I suppose the undeniable conclusion from my assumption above is that there are more dishonest LEOs who hate a gun-carrying public than there are criminals who would violently harm a victim. I don't know if that is true or not, but it's a sad thought to contemplate, at the very least.
    Last edited by TFred; 07-08-2012 at 01:50 AM. Reason: Replace old fashioned word

  18. #18
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    In the venue of 'just one more thing to carry..."

    I thought that eye glasses were just one more thing to carry... at first
    I thought my cellphone was just one more lump in my pocket
    ... my tiny LED flashlight
    ... my wallet, back when I was a kid and never Needed one


    Today, all those go in without a single thought, the recorder's right next to my keys, which are right next to the phone, which is right next to my wallet. The eyeglasses stay in the car (along with my driving license).

    ... dang, just noticed that I forgot to include my pistol in the above list. Guess you can indeed get used to things when you do them often enough.

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    I'm convenced

    After reading this and other posts about recorders I think it is an investment I need to make.

    I do have some questions,
    Auto record or just continuous record?
    File format, important or not? (I'm thinking that being able to transfer the file would be a good thing)
    Any brands/models I should stay away from?

    And is there anything else I should add to a check list when I go shopping?
    20hrs plus recording time
    20hrs plus battery life (while recording)
    USB charger

    Thanks any advice or opinions will be helpful

  20. #20
    Regular Member USNA69's Avatar
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    Next Technological Leap

    IIRC ... elsewhere in this Forum, someone mentioned smart phone apps that can record and upload video/audio to the "cloud" in real time.

    This would solve the problem of your digital voice recorder being confiscated during an arrest and "mysteriously" disappearing or being erased prior to its return.

  21. #21
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USNA69 View Post
    IIRC ... elsewhere in this Forum, someone mentioned smart phone apps that can record and upload video/audio to the "cloud" in real time.

    This would solve the problem of your digital voice recorder being confiscated during an arrest and "mysteriously" disappearing or being erased prior to its return.
    To me, the best implementation of such technology would be a device you carry which continuously records. Then at the press of a very easily and quickly accessible button or command, the device would immediately upload the past XX (user selectable) minutes to a remote storage repository, and from that moment on, until stopped by the user, continue to upload the signal in real-time to that remote repository.

    The user would obviously know the amount of previously recorded time that would be sent, so when a situation suddenly develops such that the recording needs to be saved, they have that XX amount of time to discretely activate the function.

    That would be the best use of technology, saving the entire amount of pertinent data without needlessly wasting the relatively expensive bandwidth to constantly be sending the signal to a remote location. Once you are in the situation you need to be saving the data, the bandwidth is well worth the cost to gain the security of the remote storage.

    TFred

  22. #22
    Regular Member pfries's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gearup View Post
    My question for all of you is who OC's and does not use a recording device of any kind? Maybe it is me being new but I just do not feel paranoid enough to record my whole day every day.
    I OC daily with the exception of work where I CC upon request of the owner. I do not carry a recording device although I can see the benefit of it. To point I have not had a need for a recording but that is not to say I will never have a need. Definitely food for thought.

  23. #23
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kord View Post
    After reading this and other posts about recorders I think it is an investment I need to make.

    I do have some questions,
    Auto record or just continuous record?
    File format, important or not? (I'm thinking that being able to transfer the file would be a good thing)
    Any brands/models I should stay away from?

    And is there anything else I should add to a check list when I go shopping?
    20hrs plus recording time
    20hrs plus battery life (while recording)
    USB charger

    Thanks any advice or opinions will be helpful
    http://www.amazon.com/Sony-ICD-UX512.../dp/B004M8ST4U
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  24. #24
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    I carry the Sony PX312 because 'black goes with everything', right?

    I don't turn it on as soon as I go out the door, but I do as soon as I've arrived somewhere, if an hour (or a couple hours) goes by during which nothing worthwhile has happened I'll hit the delete button. Listening through 20-30 minutes of heavy breathing to catch the moment an incident started just darn gets old.
    I haven't tried the VOX mode yet, but that's probably in the near future when I play with the unit's sensitivity.

    There's a 42 U.S.C. § 1983 lawsuit in the works that's ONLY possible due to the presence of a recording which captured the entire incident. Without that impartial witness, the only thing the jury would have to gauge the truth with would be the statements of the officers and the original complainant.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 07-08-2012 at 11:17 AM.

  25. #25
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Very fond of my Sony unit. Comes complete with software and cables to download to PC, has one button "mark the spot" to aid in finding that SHTF moment, excellent noise cancelling, extremely good fidelity even when carried in my pants pocket.

    Have left the unit one continuously all night and still had over 50% of battery life in the morning - always carry an extra set of batteries though. My old Panasonic still provides effective backup.

    http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/sto...umber=ICDPX312
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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