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Thread: Constitutional carry

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    Constitutional carry

    Interesting that as of November 1 last year there has been almost no talk of constitutional carry on this forum. I fear that as I predicted many advocates of constitutional carry have caved in and sucummed to "This is the best we can get". We are agonizingly close to constitutional carry. We have constitutional carry in our homes, on our property, in our vehicles and in our businesses. The only places we do not have constitutional carry is in some public places. This is an election year. It is time to make ourselves heard. It is even more important now that we have lost our strongest supporter in the legislature, Pam Galloway. Getting true constitutional carry is going to be even harder to achieve now that Act 35 has been enacted. Certainly the prevailing attitude in the legislature is that they have satisfied the masses with Act 35.

    It will be hard to get constitutional carry passed now that the DoJ has been given rule making authority, the bureaucracy and budget to manage the concealed carry process. Furthur, it will be exceptionally tough now that the Republicans have lost control of the senate. Now is the time to make noise. That is unless we are willing to demonstrate that we are indeed sheep, willing to give up our goals with the offering of half a loaf.
    It is time to hit the keyboards.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Constitutional Carry hasn't died at all. There are other things at hand, like not getting screwed on the permanent training rules. This section has slowed down quite a bit, but there are many who still read.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    ...It will be hard to get constitutional carry passed now that the DoJ has been given rule making authority, the bureaucracy and budget to manage the concealed carry process. Furthur, it will be exceptionally tough now that the Republicans have lost control of the senate. .....
    Have you forgotten that the Republican controlled Assembly and Senate along with Walker and VanHollen rejected the idea of Constitutional Carry? The DOJ has always had "rule making authority"... Our only chance of getting it is through the ballot box. The problem is that we can only vote for the candidates presented to us. This has been the problem with our national elections for a long time. Our nation has lived the life of luxury for a long time and people are forgetting what our nation sacrificed in order to get our Constitution. We (conservatives) are our own worst enemy. Too much fighting among ourselves. So called "sportsmen" looking down their noses at the EBR crowd is but a single example. The liberals are better at getting their ilk motivated and unified. Nobody occupied Madistan when Doyle vetoed the PPA twice.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Captain, I can assure you I haven't given up on Constitutional Carry, however, to even get the Legislature to consider relaxing the rules further, we have to assure a Recublican/Tea Party majority in both houses.

    So... in my case, my Senator (Kedzie) is not up for reelection this year and he has said he supports Constitutional Carry. My Representative (Naas) is up for reelection but as far as I see he is unopposed. He hasn't been a vocal supporter of Constitutional Carry but voted for Act 35.

    In local elections, I am working to get Dan Necci elected as District Attorney of Walworth County. Of the two running, he seems most likely to not trample on our rights. I ran for Walworth County Supervisor and came in 3rd. The guy who won, I am planning on working on him to get the gun ban lifted in County buildings.

    We kept Walker in the Governor's Mansion.

    We need to replace Kohl with anyone but Baldwin. While this might not help Constitutional Carry, it might help weaken/soften/eliminate the Federal GFSZ law.

    So.... what can we do TODAY? In contested races, we can vet the candidates and work for the one that most supports our rights. Other than that, we can keep reminding our elected officials what we want from them. In addition, we can work on weakening the proposed DOJ rules. We need to eliminate the 50 person limit. It would be nice to eliminate the face-to-face requirement. It would also be nice to identify a Senator or Representative that will introduce legislation, like Pam Galloway did last session. Part of the original delay was figuring out who would 'own' the issue in the legislature.

    I do not foresee the legislature coming back into session before next January.

    I understand your frustration and it does seem that the chatter on this board has died down regarding Constitutional Carry. However, I think we are taking a breather for the next fight.

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    Good. At least there are still four of us still in the fight.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    That being said, I just looked it up and I have a new Representative, Amy Loudenbeck. I guess the district redraw moved Naas to a different district.

    Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    I can not even start to guess how much gas, and paper, and printer toner I went thru just to get the CCL we now have. Phone work alone must have been hours.

    CCL took years to get, Constitutional carry will take time as well.

    I don't theink we are done just yet.

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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronS View Post
    I can not even start to guess how much gas, and paper, and printer toner I went thru just to get the CCL we now have. Phone work alone must have been hours.

    CCL took years to get, Constitutional carry will take time as well.

    I don't theink we are done just yet.
    The only reason Constitutional Carry will take years is because we wavered. We should have put ALL our efforts into primary-ing Fitzgerald during his recall. We should have run a pro rights candidate against him. Had all gun owners in WI united and set Fitzgerald home, it would have sent a very clear message that we won't set for the status quo.

    But alas, the majority will just pay their coat tax and be happy.

    Carry On

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    Good. At least there are still four of us still in the fight.
    I don't count? It's ok. I guess I don't quote WI statutes etc when I write. Besides I thought we had constitutional carry in WI. Or is OC different than constitutional carry. Are you talking about US Constitutional carry?
    Last edited by Law abider; 07-09-2012 at 12:54 AM.

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    When we can go about our daily business with a concealed sidearm and no need for permission from our elected state employees we will have Constitutional Carry.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 07-09-2012 at 01:10 AM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Having control of the senate,house and Governor got us one of the best shall issue laws in the country.

    Is it as good as consitutional carry no are we going to stop with shall issue no.

    There are a whole lot of people who want all or nothing we didn't lose are gun rights in this country all at one time.

    It has been a slows process starting in the 20's, But we have slowly been winning them back.

    As much as anybody I would like to see full consitutional carry tomorrow.

    I'll take scoreing a point towards the win any day over nothing ,hopeing for the one big play to win.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    I haven't done the research but I was just thinking about this this morning. Do we actually have it better than some Constitutional Carry states?

    Do any of the CC states have restrictions on places that WI doesn't? Churches? Hospitals?

    I am not saying we don't need to get it better in WI, just trying to offer some perspective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    I thought we had constitutional carry in WI. Or is OC different than constitutional carry. Are you talking about US Constitutional carry?

    You have to have a CCL in order to open carry while in a school zone. That in itself is not Constitutional carry as it pertains to OC. It seems real stupid that one would need a concealed carry license in order to openly carry, but they had to put that in there because of the ridiculous federal law on school zones.

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    Constitutional carry would be great and should be our ultimate goal (getting rid of the stupid school zone federal laws should be another). What we have now is better than any of us would have dreamed about just 10 short years ago. The 2 CCW laws that Doyle vetoed stunk compared to what Walker signed. (But I wonder how many good people were victimized by criminals because of Doyles vetos. The thought makes me ill!!!).

    I make it a point to open carry at least once a day in public. When Wisconsinites get used to an armed populace, and come to realize that the chicken littles that were screaming about guns in public were full of s**t, they will be ready for the next step of constitutional carry. The antis were very good at incrementalism in slowly eroding our rights, there is nothing wrong with borrowing that tactic to get them back.

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    Regular Member Trip20's Avatar
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    Our reciprocity sucks. That was one legitimate reason to have a (voluntary) license system. I applied for the license in the hopes that I wouldn't need a Florida/Utah or some other combination but that's shaped up to be horse crap. It's nice not to have to open carry anymore, that's about the only benefit for me now. I say lets push Constitutional Carry home.
    Last edited by Trip20; 07-09-2012 at 05:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    You have to have a CCL in order to open carry while in a school zone. That in itself is not Constitutional carry as it pertains to OC. It seems real stupid that one would need a concealed carry license in order to openly carry, but they had to put that in there because of the ridiculous federal law on school zones.
    AAH, got it brother!
    I took the Utah class and in their state, you can carry into school buildings but not churches as Mormons are pacifists. It seems almost all states have some sort of variations in their CCL laws. I suppose US Carry would standardize everything but then that would be trampling on the 10th amendment. Will be interesting to read all your thoughts as this discussion progresses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trip20 View Post
    Our reciprocity sucks. That was one legitimate reason to have a (voluntary) license system. I applied for the license in the hopes that I wouldn't need a Florida/Utah or some other combination but that's shaped up to be horse crap. It's nice not to have to open carry anymore, that's about the only benefit for me now. I say lets push Constitutional Carry home.
    If it wasn't for our voluntary license system, you would not have concealed carry rights in Colorado or Michigan, since they only accept licenses/permits from the state of residence. In addition, the Wisconsin license is accepted in most of the Midwest, other than Minnesota. The Wisconsin license has been very helpful to many who hold it.
    Last edited by E6chevron; 07-09-2012 at 11:52 PM.
    Wis. CCL #5x Springfield XDM 3.8 Compact .40 S&W, Utah CFP

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    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post
    The Wisconsin license has been very helpful to many who hold it.
    Yep.

    But........!!!!

    Our ultimate goal MUST be total 2nd Amendment constitutional carry. With the exception of private property there must be no question as to if one is legal or not at a church, polling place, brothel, tavern, school, "school zone" or anywhere else that is public. Unless a privately owned business/organization post (and it is their right to do so), there should be no question in any of the states or territories that we are FREE to carry openly or concealed.

    The way to get this is by nibbling bit by bit, incrementalism, just like the antis did to our rights. The "all or nothing" thing does not work. You end up with nothing. The left learned this long ago. We need to start on a local level, then state, then nationally. And then, one day....................the world!!!!!!!

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    Regular Member DangerClose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bnhcomputing View Post
    The only reason Constitutional Carry will take years is because we wavered.
    Yeah, that's what happened... all our fault... not like the governor himself went back on his word or anything....

    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    I haven't done the research but I was just thinking about this this morning. Do we actually have it better than some Constitutional Carry states?
    I'd have to think of specifics for constitutional-carry states, but I often bring up how various other states' gun laws are lame compared to WI's even before it had concealed carry.

    I mean, in WI, basically, if you want a gun, you bought one, and then you went in your backyard or wherever and shot it. Capacity doesn't matter, how many you buy per month doesn't matter, no weird gun ownership permits needed, etc. A lot of people thought/think WI gun laws sucked just because it didn't allow CC.
    Last edited by DangerClose; 07-10-2012 at 12:40 AM.

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    Regular Member Trip20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post
    If it wasn't for our voluntary license system, you would not have concealed carry rights in Colorado or Michigan, since they only accept licenses/permits from the state of residence. In addition, the Wisconsin license is accepted in most of the Midwest, other than Minnesota. The Wisconsin license has been very helpful to many who hold it.
    I'm glad some see value in the current level of reciprocity. There are plenty of people who rarely leave their county of residence. For those of us who do not tip-toe around the Midwest, it is not so glorious.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trip20 View Post
    I'm glad some see value in the current level of reciprocity. There are plenty of people who rarely leave their county of residence. For those of us who do not tip-toe around the Midwest, it is not so glorious.
    So.... get a UT permit. If WI was to be recognized by more states than it is, it would have to have more onerous training or other requirements than it already has. Why should the people of WI be punished because the legislature of MN is freedom infringing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    AAH, got it brother!
    I took the Utah class and in their state, you can carry into school buildings but not churches as Mormons are pacifists. ...
    Not really. Like many of us, they believe that violence is an appropriate solution to attacks or threats of interference with one's way of life. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_War#Background

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    Regular Member Trip20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    So.... get a UT permit.
    Oh, the irony....

    No thanks, I want Constitutional Carry. I don't want to obtain multiple licenses/permits, pay multiple fees, take multiple "training" courses...etc. Constitutional Carry with optional license system designed specifically for reciprocity is the answer. Along with a successful FGFSZ challenge.

    The residents of WI will no longer need a license to CC/OC in their home state. Those that wish to venture out of the state can subject themselves to the state approval process designed to meet optimal reciprocity. This will alleviate the need to patronize other states licensing programs and eliminate the burden of paying twice or thrice for your Right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    Yep.

    And then, one day....................the world!!!!!!!

    I am not sure about that since the UN is the alternative government for the world. Can;t get into my mail on Yahoo. I'll get that link.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    I am not sure about that since the UN is the alternative government for the world.
    That's one of the things we need to change!

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