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Thread: Constitutional carry

  1. #26
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    This post is aimed at those that think constitutional carry will be as long and arduous as getting concealed carry passed and to those that believe constitutional carry must be approached a piece at a time so as to not be conspicuous. It is aimed at those that think that constitutional carry will be as elusive as the proverbial carrot and that we should settle for our shall carry privilege.

    The year 2011 was a tremendous year for us. The passage of Act 35, Act 51 and the recent Castle Doctrine law dramatically heralded our right to personal protection by use of weapons.

    Many review Act 35 and Act 51 only in terms of licensing for concealed carry under the new statute 175.60. Or for the carry of uncased firearm in a vehicle during the activity of hunting. The Acts are much more than that. They make changes to a number of other state statues. Changes that have a direct impact to and endorsement of constitutional carry. I list some of them below. Those that I do list are those I feel are pertinent to handgun carry for the act of personal protection.

    Act 35 (2011)

    SECTION 3. 23.33 (3) (e) of the statutes is amended
    to read:
    23.33 (3) (e) With any firearm in his or her possession
    unless it is unloaded and enclosed in a carrying case or
    unless the firearm is a handgun, as defined in s. 175.60 (1)
    (bm), or any bow unless it is unstrung or enclosed in a carrying
    case.

    Comment: Carry of a loaded and visible handgun on an ATV not prohibited.


    SECTION 21. 66.0409 (6) of the statutes is created to
    read:
    66.0409 (6) Unless other facts and circumstances that
    indicate a criminal or malicious intent on the part of the
    person apply, no person may be in violation of, or be
    charged with a violation of, an ordinance of a political
    subdivision relating to disorderly conduct or other inappropriate
    behavior for loading, carrying, or going armed
    with a firearm, without regard to whether the firearm is
    loaded or is concealed or openly carried. Any ordinance
    in violation of this subsection does not apply and may not
    be enforced.

    Comment: Localities may not charge disorderly conduct, barring mitigating circumstances , for the singular act of carrying a loaded firearm, concealed or visible.

    (2) ISSUANCE AND SCOPE OF LICENSE. ss175.60
    (c) Unless expressly provided in this section, this section
    does not limit an individual’s right to carry a firearm
    that is not concealed.

    Comment: Recognition that visible carry is constitutionally protected.

    SECTION 55. 941.23 (2) (e) of the statutes is created
    to read:
    941.23 (2) (e) An individual who carries a concealed
    and dangerous weapon, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (j), in
    his or her own dwelling or place of business or on land
    that he or she owns, leases, or legally occupies.

    Comment: The concealed weapon prohibition statute does not apply to these conditions.

    Act 51 (2011)

    Section 1. 23.33 (3) (e) of the statutes, as affected by 2011 Wisconsin Act 35, is renumbered 23.33 (3c) (a) and amended to read:
    23.33 (3c) (a) With No person may operate an all-terrain vehicle with any firearm in his or her possession unless it the firearm is unloaded and enclosed in a carrying case or unless the firearm is a handgun, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (bm), or any bow unless it is unstrung or enclosed in a carrying case.

    167.31 (2) (a) (intro.) Except as provided in sub. (4), no person may place, possess, or transport a firearm, bow, or crossbow in or on a motorboat with the motor running, unless the one of the following applies:
    1. The firearm is unloaded or is a handgun, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (bm),

    Section 11. 167.31 (2) (b) of the statutes, as affected by 2011 Wisconsin Act 35, is renumbered 167.31 (2) (b) (intro.) and amended to read:
    167.31 (2) (b) (intro.) Except as provided in sub. (4), no person may place, possess, or transport a firearm, bow, or crossbow in or on a vehicle, unless the one of the following applies:
    1. The firearm is unloaded or is a handgun

    Section 13. 167.31 (2) (c) of the statutes, as affected by 2011 Wisconsin Act 35, is amended to read:
    167.31 (2) (c) Except as provided in sub. (4), no person may load a firearm, other than a handgun, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (bm), in a vehicle or discharge a firearm or shoot a bolt or an arrow from a bow or crossbow in or from a vehicle.

    Bottom Line: We are not that far from constitutional carry. The above statutes support that we have the constitutional right to carry a loaded, visible or hidden, handgun in our homes, in our business, on our land, on our property. In addition to carry a loaded and visible handgun in or on our vehicles. The Castle Doctrine supplants this right by declaring we have the privilege of using weapons in those locations to protect person and property under the presumption of innocence.

    The only locations we are prohibited from carrying a concealed handgun, besides those specific law enforcement and judicial locations detailed in ss175.60, are: Public and private locations that are duly posted IAW Act 35 (unfortunately our constitutional right to open carry got sucked into that vortex).

    This and my original post is a call to arms that when the legislature reconvenes we must get vocal and convince one or more legislators that we aren’t that far from constitutional carry and that the costs to manage a licensing system is not reasonable. Convince one or more to take up the fight.

  2. #27
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    To get Constitutional Carry, this is what we need:

    Repeal 941.23 (concealed carry without a license), 941.235 (government building carry), 941.237 (Class-B carry), 167.31 (car carry) maybe?

    Assuming we don't get the Federal GFSZ repealed, we can change 948.605 as follows:

    Repeal 948.605 (2)(b)1r, amend 1m to read "A person who possesses the firearm in accordance with 18 USC 922 (q) (2) (B) (i), (ii), (iv), (v), (vi), or (vii)." (this would allow CCL holders to carry INSIDE of schools).

    If we get the Federal GFSZ repealed, then repeal 948.605 in its entirety.

  3. #28
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    [SIZE=2][FONT=arial]To get Constitutional Carry, this is what we need:

    ...
    ... a newly elected employee in the governor's office for starters.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    That's one of the things we need to change!
    OK. Then what shall we do about this? http://freedomoutpost.com/2012/07/us...itution-to-un/

    We need to pass this around all the 50 states in our open carry blog. I don't know how to post it at once on all the states blogs.

  5. #30
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    ... a newly elected employee in the governor's office for starters.

    We could have ended up with a guy like our last Governor. I would guess you would not have wanted that?

    This one has the balls, but as far as carry goes, it is brand new to Wisconsin. He was happy to make the first step.
    He was (and I would guess still is) concerned about carry, no doubt. A lot of people in our state are. I think time will fix that.
    After his first term, I think a push for full restoration of our gun rights (first time in about 150 years) would be in line.
    After his first term, he will have a lot to look back on. The money he has saved our state, and the fact that we have not seen any growth in crime from lawful carry should give him something to think about. Working on him should be a lot easier.
    Now if we could just start bringing in the jobs we all need... We might be set in a few years...

    Walker has helped us make the first step. I have faith that we will be able to work with him to see the job done in full.
    It is going to take time.
    Two years is not enough time to convince the full state that lawful people should have rights returned to them that have been gone for so long.

  6. #31
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    In my home, we are still rooting for Constitutional Carry. It's the way it should be, and the way it was written by the founders.

    Doesn't matter who your rep's in government are, call them. Tell them you oppose anything but state and national Constitutional Carry. Call them, email them, harass the hell out of them. Tell your friends, and vote. There have been a select few people who were not associated with either Dem or Rep parties that served this country well. It's time for one of these parties to hand up a leader and get the word out. The federal government has been turned into a cash cow for it's employees/masters, and it simply needs to stop.
    You can speak softy and carry a big stick, but I'll stick to my guns.

    Member - Wisconsin Carry, Inc. http://ww.wisconsincarry.org
    Member of West Bend Barton Sportsman's Club - http://www.wbbsc.com

  7. #32
    Regular Member DangerClose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronS View Post
    We could have ended up with a guy like our last Governor. I would guess you would not have wanted that?
    I did not like that one.

    Hell, he raised license plate fees so much I canceled my custom plates out of spite.
    Last edited by DangerClose; 07-11-2012 at 03:04 AM.

  8. #33
    Regular Member TyGuy's Avatar
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    I'm a fan of Constitutional carry. You can find a pocket constitution here

    http://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Constit...t+constitution

    jk, but honestly CC is the way to go.

  9. #34
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronS View Post
    We could have ended up with a guy like our last Governor. I would guess you would not have wanted that?

    This one has the balls, but as far as carry goes, it is brand new to Wisconsin. He was happy to make the first step.
    -shrugs-
    Our current employee in office is a liar. Boasted he would sign any carry law that came across his desk and then demanded permits and training at the last second. Never gonna get Constitutional Carry with a Governor like him. He cares not what the wishes of his employers are.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  10. #35
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    To get Constitutional Carry, this is what we need:

    Repeal 941.23 (concealed carry without a license), 941.235 (government building carry), 941.237 (Class-B carry), 167.31 (car carry) maybe?

    Assuming we don't get the Federal GFSZ repealed, we can change 948.605 as follows:

    Repeal 948.605 (2)(b)1r, amend 1m to read "A person who possesses the firearm in accordance with 18 USC 922 (q) (2) (B) (i), (ii), (iv), (v), (vi), or (vii)." (this would allow CCL holders to carry INSIDE of schools).

    If we get the Federal GFSZ repealed, then repeal 948.605 in its entirety.
    Not to toot my own horn but guess what is offered as an amendment to AB9?

    Here is the text of Assembly amendment 1:

    3. Page 2, line 8: after that line insert:“SECTION 2h. 948.605 (2) (b) 1m. of the statutes is amended to read:
    948.605 (2) (b) 1m. A person who possesses the firearm in accordance with 18
    USC 922 (q) (2) (B) (i), (ii), (iv), (v), (vi), or (vii).
    SECTION 2j. 948.605 (2) (b) 1r. of the statutes is repealed.”.
    Let's get it done!!!!

    http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/raw/proposal/2013/a0872
    http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2013/proposals/REG/AB9

  11. #36
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    Wishful thinking. Reality is not gonna happen. Gun owners who believe in accountability and responsibility far outnumber the fringe element in Wisconsin.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky View Post
    Wishful thinking. Reality is not gonna happen. Gun owners who believe in accountability and responsibility far outnumber the fringe element in Wisconsin.
    Are you posting in the correct thread? Are you really addressing the OP? If so, what exactly are you trying to say? Have you just called nearly every poster here part of a "fringe" element? Our laws have gone far post accountability and responsibility and have crossed over to people control. Anyone who may legally possess a firearm and is a WI resident is issued a WI Concealed Carry License with no further questions. The premise of Constitutional Carry is that anyone who may legally possess a firearm may carry it Openly or Concealed with no further taxes or hoops in order to do so.
    To address the OP, this will never happen with the current people in Madison. They did not trust us 2 years ago, and they do not trust us any more now.

  13. #38
    Campaign Veteran Running Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky View Post
    Reality is not gonna happen.

    For the WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



    What a maroon . . .
    When rights are outlawed only outlaws will have rights.

    Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. - Hanlon's Razor

    No American citizen should be willing to accept a government that uses its power against its own people. - Catherine Engelbrecht

  14. #39
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    For how many decades will the people "fight" with a vote to get what the constitution grants them? You act like small wins are a good step forward. Government takes your rights from you and the answer is to vote? That is funny, you ARE sheep you just do not see it. The government takes an oath to protect the constitution and when they make laws that clearly violate that oath and our constitution we vote? Their unconstitutional laws have no weight unless we the people allow it. How many decades must you spend voting before it dawns on you that from the time the constitution was written to this very day it has been under attack and you are clearly losing....go vote some more sheep.

    Freedom is not something you can vote on. The constitution is suppose to grant you freedom, you are not granted freedom. I just dont understand people.
    Last edited by S&W500; 10-27-2013 at 08:39 AM.

  15. #40
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S&W500 View Post
    For how many decades will the people "fight" with a vote to get what the constitution grants them? You act like small wins are a good step forward. Government takes your rights from you and the answer is to vote? That is funny, you ARE sheep you just do not see it. The government takes an oath to protect the constitution and when they make laws that clearly violate that oath and our constitution we vote? Their unconstitutional laws have no weight unless we the people allow it. How many decades must you spend voting before it dawns on you that from the time the constitution was written to this very day it has been under attack and you are clearly losing....go vote some more sheep.

    Freedom is not something you can vote on. The constitution is suppose to grant you freedom, you are not granted freedom. I just dont understand people.
    Ever hear of the Whiskey Insurrection? How about Shay's Rebellion? What about the American Civil War? The truth is that the Constitution does not grant us a single freedom. The Constitution is intended to put limits on our Republican Government. Your wet dreams of pressing a reset button will never come to fruition. The Spirit of the American Revolution is what you need to reignite in the hearts and minds of the voting public. There is no going backwards. Your Libertarian Utopia never had a chance in the USA. Here in the real world, we have to deal with the ignorant "entitled" masses. Convince them that they should not vote for the candidate who will steal the most from us and redistribute it to them and you will have something there.
    In the mean time, we will continue to make incremental gains in securing our Right to Bear Arms here in little old Wisconsin.

  16. #41
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    Ever hear of the Whiskey Insurrection? How about Shay's Rebellion? What about the American Civil War? The truth is that the Constitution does not grant us a single freedom. The Constitution is intended to put limits on our Republican Government. Your wet dreams of pressing a reset button will never come to fruition. The Spirit of the American Revolution is what you need to reignite in the hearts and minds of the voting public. There is no going backwards. Your Libertarian Utopia never had a chance in the USA. Here in the real world, we have to deal with the ignorant "entitled" masses. Convince them that they should not vote for the candidate who will steal the most from us and redistribute it to them and you will have something there.
    In the mean time, we will continue to make incremental gains in securing our Right to Bear Arms here in little old Wisconsin.
    +1

    I think Joe Public is slowly seeing guns aren't bad.

    Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk

  17. #42
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  18. #43
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    Yup.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    Ever hear of the Whiskey Insurrection? How about Shay's Rebellion? What about the American Civil War? The truth is that the Constitution does not grant us a single freedom. The Constitution is intended to put limits on our Republican Government. Your wet dreams of pressing a reset button will never come to fruition. The Spirit of the American Revolution is what you need to reignite in the hearts and minds of the voting public. There is no going backwards. Your Libertarian Utopia never had a chance in the USA. Here in the real world, we have to deal with the ignorant "entitled" masses. Convince them that they should not vote for the candidate who will steal the most from us and redistribute it to them and you will have something there.
    In the mean time, we will continue to make incremental gains in securing our Right to Bear Arms here in little old Wisconsin.
    I Believe you completely missed what i was getting at but honestly i did not figure you would, you view things with a closed mind, predetermined mindset that is not opened to any thing other then what it currently knows to be truth. Do you think your opposition is openly minded to your thoughts as you are to theirs? That's right your not opened minded nor are they. Your right we should enact more government policy and vote for what is right let the 51% over rule the 49%.

  20. #45
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S&W500 View Post
    I Believe you completely missed what i was getting .....
    As you did also. You apparently did not bother to read my post as it did not fit YOUR preconceived notions of the solution.....
    I am actually very open minded but I am also a realist. There has been no regime change in Madison. Those in the legislature have given us no indication that they have had a change of heart and have truly become pro-2A..

    Quote Originally Posted by S&W500 View Post
    That's right your not opened minded nor are they. Your right we should enact more government policy and vote for what is right let the 51% over rule the 49%.
    Straw Man much?
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 10-29-2013 at 06:05 AM.

  21. #46
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    Small wins are very important we didn't lose are rights in one big push.

    Yes I would like a big win remember AZ,AK, and WY didn't get constitutionally carry the first time around.

    A step forward is better then a step backwards

    You can sit back and wait for the big one or you can gain a yard or two at a time and make the touch down.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    As you did also. You apparently did not bother to read my post as it did not fit YOUR preconceived notions of the solution.....
    I am actually very open minded but I am also a realist. There has been no regime change in Madison. Those in the legislature have given us no indication that they have had a change of heart and have truly become pro-2A..


    Straw Man much?
    Had to look up straw man and with several definitions i am still clueless to what your intent is with that phrase...please enlighten me.

    voting has gotten us from point a to point b....go figure out the difference between point a and b then spew me your bs on how voting works.
    Any law that is in direct conflict with the constitution is a failure of the system but that is ok we will Vote our rights back. Retarded.
    Last edited by S&W500; 10-29-2013 at 05:59 PM.

  23. #48
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S&W500 View Post
    Had to look up straw man and with several definitions i am still clueless to what your intent is with that phrase...please enlighten me..
    The most simple I can put it is that you are fabricating suppositions and making accusations on different things simply because I disagree with you on a single item..



    Quote Originally Posted by S&W500 View Post
    voting has gotten us from point a to point b....go figure out the difference between point a and b then spew me your bs on how voting works.
    Any law that is in direct conflict with the constitution is a failure of the system but that is ok we will Vote our rights back. Retarded.
    On April 19th, 1775, the American Colonies had an elected functioning government even though they considered themselves British subjects. The Crown banned their government and took away their ability to lawfully assemble and vote. They also were prohibiting their trade and confiscating their arms. The American Revolution had begun years before the first shot was fired in the Revolutionary War. The Hearts and Minds of "We The People" were in support of the Revolution. Your proposal of taking Washington by force has a huge hole in it. You have no government elected by "We The People" to replace it. You would simply propose insurrection and Martial Law. You would propose to rule by force and not allow "We The People" to have representation. This is why we MUST first win the hearts and minds of "We The People" in order to take all of our lost Liberty back. It has been eroded incrementally and it is going to take incremental changes to reconstruct it. We are moving in the right direction.

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