There seems to be a lot of confusion, particularly about the military. Let's tackle it:
Doesn't sound like any of the Delta guys I knew, and I got to know a handful while living in Fayetteville.
Having known and worked with a good many troops, both Army soldiers and Air Force airmen, throughout a 20-year career, I believe you're wrong.
People are people, in any organization. I think you're wrong. I've heard stories ranging from intentional friendly fire (ok, not civilians but still) to unlawful detainment of civilians on public land. Did someone say no to the execution of Anwar al-Awlaki? It's two U.S. civilians (that we know about) to date that have been summarily executed right? I guess there weren't enough people to say no.
They did not.
Why is it that civilians with little or no military experience assume the worst of the military? To those of us who've been there, done that, these civilians are the ones who appear to be living in the land of sugar plums, et. al.
Just because I'm a civilian doesn't mean I haven't been exposed to the real world.
Guardsmen have a different oath of enlistment than U.S. military:
Military: "I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
Guardsmen: "I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the State of (STATE NAME) against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of (STATE NAME) and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to law and regulations. So help me God."
Not much difference, is there? Both contain a key provision about obeying orders: "according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice" for the Military, and "according to law and regulations" for Guardsmen.
Now let's look as the oath of office for officers in the U.S. Military: "I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."
There's nothing about obeying the orders of superior officers, or for that matter, even the Commander in Chief, nor is there anything about the UCMJ in there. What is in there is that the obligation is taken freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion.
My point is that it's an officers duty to question (albeit quietly, to one's self) every order than comes down the pipe. If it passes muster, it's carried out. If it's not legit, it's the officers' duty to bring that to the attention of their superior officer. I've done that on occasion, as have several officers I've known well. I'm quite sure those who I didn't know well have done the same, and I've had my own orders questioned a time or two, and justifiably so.
It's called "mutually accountability," and it's how we help keep one another on the straight and narrow. Sure, there are some mavericks out there who're so gung ho, running along at mach two with their hair on fire that they miss the warning signs and wind up pulling a crash and burn. They usually don't last very long.
Neither have I, in my twenty years.
Thank you! Agreed.
Hardly. Not only are the cultural difference vastly different, but our militaries are vastly different, as well. Consider the oaths of office I listed above. Theirs are all about unwavering loyalty to one's commander and chain of command. Ours provide a clear UCMJ/regulations/law escape clause for the enlisted, and omit all loyalty/chain of command requirements altogether for our officers. We don't want stupid officers who blindly follow orders. We want officers who can think for themselves.
Not in our military, at least not blindly.
Twenty years of military experience tells me your perceptions are seriously off-target. Look around these forums -- how many military members are here? Answer: LOTS. The vast majority of people in the U.S. military would not do such a thing because they're one of us. Many of my friends in the military carried off-duty. Most CC'd, but a couple of them OC'd. Nearly everyone I knew in the military was a private gun-owner, and tons were magazine-reading members of the NRA. Very few were die-hard, anti-government, tin-foil-wearing gun nuts. Those who were didn't seem to stay in the military long. Regardless, we all know what we were fighting for: Our Constitution, and the rights and freedoms recognized by it and its amendments. We came from the civilian community. We live among the civilian community. For the vast majority of us, our spouses, kids, pastors, and friends are part of the civilian community. Whether we're discharged or retired, we've returned to the civilian community.
Frankly, the idea of any commander giving an order to fire willy-nilly on civilians is laughably ludicrous. They would follow the ROE, but ONLY if the ROE were legal. It doesn't take a rocket scientist, or even a lawyer, to know that firing on civilians without just cause is very illegal, and all of us are taught from Day 1 that the excuse "I was just following orders!" doesn't cut it in a courts martial. We are REQUIRED to know what's legal and what's not legal, and if we blindly follow orders, we'll swing right next to the guy giving the orders.
Any more silly notions that our own military is the problem? If anything, they're a bunch of Oath-Keepers who'll wind up being the solution should anyone like Obama or another would-be dictator attempt to subvert our Constitution. Unlike Congress, those of us in the Military have a freaking SPINE.
I'll close with PrayingForWar's comment:
Amen.
