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Thread: OC'ing restaurant delivery driver in the news

  1. #1
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    OC'ing restaurant delivery driver in the news

    Saturday's Free Lance-Star published a front page (above the fold) article on the recent rash of restaurant delivery driver robberies. Accompanying that article was a photo of a driver clearly openly carrying his Glock .40 caliber pistol.

    Mentioned in the article was the heinous robbery that took place in Fredericksburg about 4 years ago, which sparked my own resumption of interest in gun ownership, self-defense, and perhaps most importantly, the legislative process involved with both. The perpetrators of that robbery/murder were caught, and are now in jail for a very long time.

    http://blogs.fredericksburg.com/news...ing-up-safety/

    Snip from article:

    The sheriff and others haven’t forgotten the murder four years ago of a delivery driver from a Chinese restaurant in Fredericksburg. That’s what prompted Whitaker, the delivery driver for Lin’s Express, to carry a gun on the job.

    In July 2008, Yong Hui Zhang was abducted and killed after he made a delivery for his family’s China Express restaurant, which has since closed.

    Jermaine L. Montgomery was sentenced to three life sentences in the case after pleading guilty to capital murder, robbery and abduction. His accomplice, Marcey White, pleaded guilty to six charges—including abduction and carjacking—and was sentenced to 60 years in prison.

    “I don’t want that to happen on my watch or anybody else’s watch,” Sheriff Harris said. “So in order to try to prevent that, education for me is key.”

    Whitaker says he hopes the mere sight of his gun, which he hasn’t had to use, will deter criminals. Still, he said he plans to attend the class being offered by the Sheriff’s Office.

    TFred

    Photo published on the front page with the article:


  2. #2
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    Years ago I delivered pizza at night while I worked on starting my business during the day. The owner forbid carrying of any type..... Ironically before becoming an owner of a pizza joint he had managed one and was fired for carrying a firearm while making the nightly bank deposit. Not sure what to think about that :^). I'm sure it has to do with insurance companies, maybe this would be a good legislative initiative to require insurance companies to cover such without prohibitive premium increases???
    Last edited by Neplusultra; 07-08-2012 at 12:57 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neplusultra View Post
    Years ago I delivered pizza at night while I worked on starting my business during the day. The owner forbid carrying of any type..... Ironically before becoming an owner of a pizza joint he had managed one and was fired for carrying a firearm while making the nightly bank deposit. Not sure what to think about that :^). I'm sure it has to do with insurance companies, maybe this would be a good legislative initiative to require insurance companies to cover such without prohibitive premium increases???
    We have consistently asked businesses and insurance companies to show us the restriction supposedly being imposed by the insurance company - not just for delivery drivers but for just about every activity.

    Crickets.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Props to the Spotsylvania Sheriff for offering classes on safety. It would be nice to see/read what they have to say about personal self defense - be it with handguns, pepper spray, or a tire iron. Anybody local going to attend?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    I'm all for it :^) I know a lawabiding citizen is giving people pizza, and not possible scouting out homes to rob for his thug friends.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    And yet I see a great advertising opportunity for the armed delivery driver. Just need to work out the last glitch so as not to run afoul of the DCJS rules about armed couriers as opposed to armed delivery folk. I think it can be done due to the nature of the item being delivered.

    "Neither rain nor snow nor pirates will keep us from delivering your ....."? Sure better than the trouble folks got into trying to meet the "delivered in 30 minutes or it's free" deadline.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  7. #7
    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    I don't live in their delivery area, and generally don't order delivery, but sure would do so to show my support for them.

    Maybe they can add ammo delivery to their services.
    Last edited by zoom6zoom; 07-09-2012 at 10:35 AM.

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    Thumbs up

    "Maybe they can add ammo delivery to their services."

    Zoom, I think you may be on to something!!!

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    There you go, thinking everybody is just like you.

    I have never had a pizza (delivery or pick-up or served at the table) where an unordered item was added. Now there were times when something was left off, but that's not what we are discussing, is it?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  10. #10
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheriff View Post
    Worst case scenario, due to lack of space some employee with an IQ of 80 might stack ammo on top of the pizza ovens.
    "Oh, Oh! Fireworks! Lovely!"





    TFred

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    As an employee of a pizza chain (not going to say which one), I dislike the policy against carrying while on delivery. BUT I always have it in the car so what they don't know and can't see won't hurt them. Also when I am making my nightly deposit, I always carry no matter what store I am working at. I would rather be fired than lose my life over a couple hundred dollars .....

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheriff View Post
    ....
    Just how are they going to get the ammo boxes up there when the space is taken up with boxes of pizzas waiting to be picked up/delivered? You might want to ask your case manager to find you a better sheltered employment position - guesser of catastrophes seems to be beyond your limits.

    Just more evidence suggesting that you never get out of the car and go inside anywhere. Drive-thru rulz!

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  13. #13
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheriff View Post
    Worst case scenario, due to lack of space some employee with an IQ of 80 might stack ammo on top of the pizza ovens.
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Just how are they going to get the ammo boxes up there when the space is taken up with boxes of pizzas waiting to be picked up/delivered? You might want to ask your case manager to find you a better sheltered employment position - guesser of catastrophes seems to be beyond your limits.

    Just more evidence suggesting that you never get out of the car and go inside anywhere. Drive-thru rulz!

    stay safe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheriff View Post
    You're up at 5:30 a.m. in the morning to post this drivel?
    Whose "let's pretend post" was he responding to?

    So pizza delivery drivers tend to have a low IQ do they? I know several college grads performing this task until the employment market improves or to supplement the income from their day job.

    Insofar as ammo cooking-off on top of an oven, what is the temperature on top where the delivery pizzas are stacked? Doubt it is high enough to be of a concern. Cooked off rounds generally have a very low ballistic factor as the case/brass ruptures.....except in Hollywood movies

    In his book "Gunshot Wounds" Vincent Di Maio describes various experiments where ammunition was heated in ovens. He says that .22 long rifle cartridges detonate at an average of 275F, .38 Special at 290F and 12 gauge shotgun shells at 387F. The interesting thing about these furnace experiments was that in all instances the cartridge cases ruptured, but the primers did not detonate. In fact the primers were removed from some of the ruptured cases, reloaded into other brass and fired.

    Cooking-Off Cartridges. NRA Illustrated Reloading Handbook. Washington, D.C.: The National Rifle Association of America.

    "Gunshot Wounds - practical aspects of firearms, ballistics and forensic techniques" by Vincent Di Maio
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Sheepskin does not a intelligent man make.

    I don't know many pizza delivery dudes/dudettes. Every one that I do know or have met are likely not the sharpest pizza cutters in the store.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Is it the temperature outside or something in the water? Here lately some have taken to making demeaning remarks about others. Not exactly a good way to foster positive interaction with potential new "members" much less that the press/media is very active in reading these forums. Would you like to see your remarks quoted?

    Guess it is time to remind some of the Forum Rules

    We need to stop negatively stereotyping people based on their job, education, age, etc, etc, etc. These are not so subtle personal attacks, bashing. All good people are entitled to the right of personal defense.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  16. #16
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Who stated that a pizza delivery dude/dudette should not be armed.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  17. #17
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheriff View Post
    I agree. As long as they can still physically handle and discharge a firearm safely and accurately.

    There comes a time in life when we all have to give up driving, shooting, dancing, speedo bathing suits, etc....

    It's a fact of life. Within the next 20 years I am going to give up all of these things myself most likely, except the speedo bathing suits of course. They might still look good with a diaper underneath!
    You are wearing that line out. Standards exist and remedies also - see no pressing need to add to those as there is no tsunami of incidents demanding attention.......in spite of your continued thumping of that drum.

    And no, redirecting or hijacking this thread will not be met with kindly either.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheriff View Post
    It would be my opinion.....

    Let me repeat this..... it would be my OPINION.....

    ..... that this driver wouldn't last 2 days in the city in which I live. The bleeding heart liberals answering their door, with their kids standing behind them, to see a man with a gun delivering their pizza would prompt a series of complaints a pizza shoppe would never tolerate in this area.
    Well, I don't want people I don't know entering my land armed .... are most OK with this? And this includes police!

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheriff View Post
    You're up at 5:30 a.m. in the morning to post this drivel?
    Well, yeah. It's difficult to be up at 5:30 a.m. in the afternoon or evening or night, so I gotta be up in the morning if it's that time.


    Orientation to time - one of those indicators they use to determine if you are mentally competetant or not. Then we have the "State of Virginia" indicating disorientation as to place. And the paranoia manifested by insistance on using the drive-thru instead of getting out of the car and being in close proximity to others.

    It may be drivel, but it sure fills up those lines on the green paper. Maybe if I added the part about thinking you can control the behavior of others - would that be overkill?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  20. #20
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Sheeesh, I'm getting tired of reading these updates on my own thread. I think I might have to unsubscribe!



    TFred

  21. #21
    Regular Member Betty_Rose_Brown's Avatar
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    well...

    Back to the topic of the armed pizza guy...

    Has anyone done a study on the hazards of delivering pizza? Is it harder for them to get life insurance? Because - in all seriousness - I'm guessing that it might be.

    Here in the Hampton Roads area, there have been a number of shootings and robberies of these guys through the years. I'd venture to guess it's almost as dangerous as being a night clerk at the local Quickie Mart.

  22. #22
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheriff View Post
    I stated that the concept would never fly in the area in which I live. Customers would ring the phones off the hooks with complaints about an armed person coming onto their property. I had a citizen file a complaint on me for delivering a jury summons to him while I was in uniform and armed (true story). This is the kind of folks who live in the city in which I reside.
    So, i would suggest that you educate the people of your city that it is OK to be armed, especially for ones own safety(and maybe the saftey of others). i think that is one of the functions of this site

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Well, I don't want people I don't know entering my land armed .... are most OK with this? And this includes police!
    are you saying then that you want no one to carry? i agree that you have the right for regulating an invited person and a uninvited person on your property. side note, if you order a pizza (or any kind of delivery), then you have invited that person to your property. so no trespass laws apply. but , also why are you concerned you are armed also. the readson i would not want the police, is that they are agents of the government and you are subject to arrest. it does not worry me ifthey are armed or not

    this is for everybody. if you want only certain people to carry but not all. then you are anti 2ndA,since it makes no distinctions and THIS, is the ammo that the antis look for
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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