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Thread: LEO Encounter Chambers Creek Regional Park In University Place

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    Regular Member Tacitus42's Avatar
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    LEO Encounter Chambers Creek Regional Park In University Place

    Drove down to Chambers Creek with my 3 kids and 1 of their friends at 1330 today so they could swim. Parked on right side of road across from park entrance. At the trail head sat a University Place Police/Pierce County Sheriff suv. UP contracts with the county sheriff for services. We get out of vehicle, stand around a minute while kids are changing shoes. At this time i tell my son to get the camera ready, it takes great vids. Ofc gets out of suv walks into the trail . We cross street walk in front of his suv and Boom! he comes right at me walking away from park signage. Conversation went something like this.
    Ofc: " Hey , i know your open carrying and its legal and all that . I was checking the sign to see if firearms were permitted, but all its says it prohibits dischaching them." ( i knew this was gonna be fun as i had a boring day up to then)
    Me: "yea"?
    Ofc: "why you OCing"
    Me: "cuz i want to
    Ofc: "you have a Cpl"? ( yes i should of asked if i was being detained, but like i said i was bored)
    Me: "yep" ( no way in hell was i gonna show him)
    Ofc: "well why dont you cover it up? You know they make different holsters for that"? ( my Taurus 24/7 in a thumb snap nylon holster with a pouch for an extra mag. 31 rounds of .40 Federal HST goodness)
    Me: "dont want to, its too hot,and like you said its legal"
    Ofc again: "They do make different holsters to conceal that"
    Me: "Well i have a new holster on the way this week, its a Serpa for my new Glock 22 i just bought yesterday i plan on Oc'ing that one too" ( the look on his face was priceless)
    Ofc: "well if anybody calls while you in the park and complains, that would be warranting alarm , and that bring this to a whole new level" ( he definetely didnt like how this was going)
    Me: " merely open carrying a firearm in a holster does not in and of itself does not warrant alarm"
    Ofc: "have a nice day"
    Me: "you too"
    Walking away my son says " batteries were dead." My daughter had been playing with it. So no video.
    Kids said Ofc. was stupid. I told them that he was just ignorant of the law and trying to intimidate me.
    About an hour later Ofc. walks down to water, pretty sure he was looking for me. Left. Thats the last i seen of him.
    That was first neg encounter with a LEO. Fun was had by all! TPD has always been professional never a word from them.
    "Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms." Josey Wales

  2. #2
    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    I've never heard of a good encounter with Pierce County sheriffs. They continue to put their negative attitudes toward OC on display for us all.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus42 View Post
    I was checking the sign to see if firearms were permitted,
    Signs are funny things. For the most part, they don't grant any rights or impose any duties that didn't already exist without a sign. Trespassing inside someone's house is illegal whether a sign is up or not. You can't carry inside a court room whether they have a sign or not. Putting up a sign requiring you to allow a search without a warrant has no legal force. And so on.

    And yet, people will instinctively consider such signage to be binding. A sign prohibiting firearm possession would be illegal under state preemption, but I bet that cop would enforce such a sign if one existed. He'd be breaking the law to do so, but he probably wouldn't care. For that matter, he himself would be carrying in violation of a sign prohibiting weapons. But I bet he wouldn't care about that either.

    It makes me wonder what weight such an individual would give a sign stating that the Constitution is strictly enforced in the area. Would he become a model officer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus42 View Post
    but all its says it prohibits dischaching them
    Dischaching? Was that an attempt at conveying his accent, or does your browser lack a spell check feature?
    Last edited by Difdi; 07-08-2012 at 01:52 AM.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    I'd say ya done good.

    Ofc: "well if anybody calls while you in the park and complains, that would be warranting alarm , and that bring this to a whole new level" ( he definetely didnt like how this was going)
    "Hold on a sec, Officer Friendly, and I'll call the park to complain that I'm carrying a firearm openly. What's the park number, anyway?"
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 07-08-2012 at 09:08 AM.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Ofc: "well if anybody calls while you in the park and complains, that would be warranting alarm , and that bring this to a whole new level" ( he definetely didnt like how this was going)

    Officer please quote the whole law. And then explain how a properly holstered weapon "warrants alarm for the safety of others".

    Some people find folks of other skin color alarming, some folks find gays alarming, some folks think people with tattoos are alarming, etc......
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Ofc: "well if anybody calls while you in the park and complains, that would be warranting alarm , and that bring this to a whole new level" ( he definetely didnt like how this was going)
    Lie, if this were true you could immediately call 911 and complain every time an officer was near and carrying a gun in the open that you were alarmed. Of course, dispatch would have to send unarmed officers to write the officer a ticket.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Lie, if this were true you could immediately call 911 and complain every time an officer was near and carrying a gun in the open that you were alarmed. Of course, dispatch would have to send unarmed officers to write the officer a ticket.
    Something similar was done a few years ago by an OC'er, if I remember right, it was in a Fred Meyers....I don't think other officers came but he did make the call he was being harassed by armed men.......
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  8. #8
    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    I'd say ya done good.

    Ofc: "well if anybody calls while you in the park and complains, that would be warranting alarm , and that bring this to a whole new level" ( he definetely didnt like how this was going)
    "Hold on a sec, Officer Friendly, and I'll call the park to complain that I'm carrying a firearm openly. What's the park number, anyway?"

    Or how about-

    "Well that funny officer since the state courts have already upheld that open carry specifically does not constitute warranting alarm. i had assumed you knew that already"
    +thought for the day+
    ++victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none++

  9. #9
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Can a professional honestly say he doesn't know his profession, or is that oxymoronic?

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    Ofc: " Hey , i know your open carrying and its legal and all that . I was checking the sign to see if firearms were permitted, but all its says it prohibits discharging them."
    You: "Am I being detained?"
    Ofc: "No."
    You: "Have a nice day officer, thank you for your service."

  11. #11
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tombrewster421 View Post
    I've never heard of a good encounter with Pierce County sheriffs. They continue to put their negative attitudes toward OC on display for us all.
    Gig Harbor is participating in the "National Night Out", on August 7, and the Pierce County Sheriff has a booth. I'll be there, and maybe I can get a picture or two standing next to them. WSP will be there, too, but everybody gets a picture with them. Anyone else going to be there? We could get a group shot.

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    Regular Member Tacitus42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajetpilot View Post
    Gig Harbor is participating in the "National Night Out", on August 7, and the Pierce County Sheriff has a booth. I'll be there, and maybe I can get a picture or two standing next to them. WSP will be there, too, but everybody gets a picture with them. Anyone else going to be there? We could get a group shot.
    I'll be there, I work nights in Gig Harbor what times good for you? Later the better for me. Like 7 or 8?

    Mainsail. I agree with you , next time thats what they'll get. I just couldnt help myself
    "Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms." Josey Wales

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    You: "Have a nice day officer, thank you for your service."


    I prefer: "Thank you officer, you may go."

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Lie, if this were true you could immediately call 911 and complain every time an officer was near and carrying a gun in the open that you were alarmed. Of course, dispatch would have to send unarmed officers to write the officer a ticket.
    I've always found the thought of making a MWAG call on uniformed police amusing. If simply standing somewhere having a gun firmly in its holster warrants alarm, then police warrant alarm simply by standing there too. Police can get in trouble for waving guns around without cause, after all.

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Interesting indeed

    This should be followed up on with the agencies....I was the one who pursued this originally as I live in U.P., and got the park rules and signage changed over a year ago now...

    New signage reads "no illegal firearms"...the sign down by the crossover bridge to the water is still incorrect I believe, but in any case I carry all the time down there ...3-4 times per week and do the loop 1-2 times when there both alone and with the wife...never a peep.

    Too bad you didn't get the officers name and badge number....but a review of the training bulletins would be in order.

    As an aside, I was down doing laps a couple of months ago and ended up on the water side at closing time...continued up to the parking area and my vehicle and as it got dark fairly early I was surprised at several roving bands (not gangs) of teens that took over the park...

    good job on the interaction.
    Last edited by jt59; 07-08-2012 at 08:58 PM.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus42 View Post

    That was first neg encounter with a LEO. Fun was had by all!


    I do not see this as a neg encounter. Everyone had a good time(except officer friendly) no one was intimidated (except, maybe, officer friendly. No one got arrested or shot. A good time was had by all.
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Washi...66874943419858

    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    I've always found the thought of making a MWAG call on uniformed police amusing. If simply standing somewhere having a gun firmly in its holster warrants alarm, then police warrant alarm simply by standing there too. Police can get in trouble for waving guns around without cause, after all.
    What about the ones standing around lovingly fondling the holstered firearm for hours on end?
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    What about the ones standing around lovingly fondling the holstered firearm for hours on end?
    How would you or I be treated if we stood around in public, resting a hand on the grip of our OC weapon and/or fondling it, as you put it?

    We'd likely wind up facing criminal charges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    How would you or I be treated if we stood around in public, resting a hand on the grip of our OC weapon and/or fondling it, as you put it?

    We'd likely wind up facing criminal charges.
    My point exactly..... personally have observed a uniformed LEO complete with extra long threaded barrel on his COMPENSATED glock with his hand in the grip and slide stroking and fondling his weapon for about 20 min while he was in a fast food restaurant waiting to order and receive his meal! At least he never unsnapped the retention strap in his FOREPLAY!!!!!!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  20. #20
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    My point exactly..... personally have observed a uniformed LEO complete with extra long threaded barrel on his COMPENSATED glock with his hand in the grip and slide stroking and fondling his weapon for about 20 min while he was in a fast food restaurant waiting to order and receive his meal! At least he never unsnapped the retention strap in his FOREPLAY!!!!!!
    He was doing that because it's illegal to "stroke" anything else in public
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Curious

    I was just wondering about this...

    LEO is pestering you about OC, not listening as you cite RCWs and such.

    So you whip out your cell phone and call the non-emergency # (probably best not to waste 911 dispatcher's time) and complain about the officer harassing you when you aren't violating any laws.



    Maybe it's a bit of a jerk move, but it seems like it could be a bit humorous to see the LEO's reaction?



    "XXXX Police Department, how may I direct your call?"

    "Hi, yes, are there any officers available who are familiar with the laws regarding open carry in the state of Washington? I'm being harassed by ________. Thanks, yes I'll hold."
    Last edited by FrayedString; 07-11-2012 at 12:59 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrayedString View Post
    So you whip out your cell phone and call the non-emergency # (probably best not to waste 911 dispatcher's time) and complain about the officer harassing you when you aren't violating any laws.


    Why NOT call 911 in this circumstance? They're there to serve the public aren't they? Also, a call to 911 will definitely be recorded while a "Business Line" call most likely will not. A call to 911, especially if made on "speaker phone mode" will also record whatever the officer tells you such as "hang up the effin phone", etc.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  23. #23
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Why NOT call 911 in this circumstance? They're there to serve the public aren't they? Also, a call to 911 will definitely be recorded while a "Business Line" call most likely will not. A call to 911, especially if made on "speaker phone mode" will also record whatever the officer tells you such as "hang up the effin phone", etc.
    If you don't live in Pierce County call 911 and ask for Sheriff's to respond.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Angry Grammer Police

    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    Signs are funny things. For the most part, they don't grant any rights or impose any duties that didn't already exist without a sign. Trespassing inside someone's house is illegal whether a sign is up or not. You can't carry inside a court room whether they have a sign or not. Putting up a sign requiring you to allow a search without a warrant has no legal force. And so on.

    And yet, people will instinctively consider such signage to be binding. A sign prohibiting firearm possession would be illegal under state preemption, but I bet that cop would enforce such a sign if one existed. He'd be breaking the law to do so, but he probably wouldn't care. For that matter, he himself would be carrying in violation of a sign prohibiting weapons. But I bet he wouldn't care about that either.

    It makes me wonder what weight such an individual would give a sign stating that the Constitution is strictly enforced in the area. Would he become a model officer?



    Dischaching? Was that an attempt at conveying his accent, or does your browser lack a spell check feature?
    GramAR POLICE....Really

  25. #25
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin
    Why NOT call 911 in this circumstance?
    Um, because it'd be illegal?
    911 is for emergencies, things that could threaten life/limb, etc.
    As described, the ignorant LEO did not seem to be threatening anyone's life, just being annoying, & even that at a fairly low level.

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