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Encounter with Louisville LEO's, negative, then positive

WhistlingJack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
45
Location
Louisville, Ky
Been lurking on these forums for awhile, decided I would join. After reading some other stories from users here, I figured I would share the story of an encounter I had with the Louisville LEO's.

Preface: I open carry regularly, and while officers have seen me armed multiple times, the following incident is the only time an officer has said anything to me, let alone created a negative encounter.

There is a particular Thorton's I visit literally every workweek, on my way in I stop there to pick up an energy drink (I hate coffee), and some water. I don't know what free stuff LEO's get there, but there is always 2-6 LEO's in this Thorton's during the day (less so at night). It is generally the same officers, I see them enough to know their faces. Well on this particular day a few weeks ago there were some new faces.

As I enter the door I notice this one officer watching me, now this officer couldn't have been on the force for a year, looked like he was 12-years old. He continues to glare at me as I get my drinks, then go to wait in line. After I pay I go to leave, and this young officer proceeds to step in front of me so that I nearly collided with him. (Not too smart as I had to have at least a hundred pounds on him.)

He then says "Sir, show me your concealed carry permit."
I answered "I do not have a CCW officer."
Him: "Well you can't have a gun without one."
Me: "With respect you are mistaken, I do not require any sort of permit to own a weapon in this state, and as I am open carrying I do not require a permit."

At this point the other three officers in that day are largely ignoring us.

Him: "Well you're brandishing a weapon."
Me: "No, Officer, its in its holster on my belt, I am not brandishing anything."
Him: "Why are you carrying it?"
Me: "Personal defense."
Him: "Why, is someone after you?"
Me: "No Officer, I appreciate your concern but no one is after me that I know of, and I do not require assistance obtaining an EPO."
Him: "So, you're just looking for trouble?"

This was the point where I really started to get annoyed.

Me: "No Officer, I'm not looking for trouble, but trouble has been known to go looking for people who are minding their own business."
Him: "Show me your ID."
Me: "No, Officer, normally I would to be cooperative, but with your garrish behavior, I'm not inclined to do so."

By this point everyone but the other three cops is watching us.

He then proceeds to take a step toward me while reaching for my gun saying "I'm going to take this off of you."
I took a step back (and I assume it was our movement that finally caught the attention of the other cops.)

Me: "No Officer, I don't think so."
Him: "Excuse me?" (He puts his hand on his gun.)
Me: "Unless I am under arrest, I have no intention of letting you seize my property.
Him: "Well Sir, since you won't show me your ID I have to take it from you, for all I know you're a felon walking around here with a gun and I have to make sure."
Me: "Officer, with respect, people with ill-intent don't walk around with their weapon out for people to see. Now unless I am under arrest, I need to get to work."

As I try to step to the side he steps in my way and gets in my face. (I guess he thought someone 5 inches shorter and a hundred pounds lighter could be intimidating.)

Him: "Would you like me to arrest you?"
Me: "Somehow I don't think your service jacket is thick enough to eat the complaint I'll be filing against you."

At this point his face is blood-red, and anyone watching can clearly tell which of the two of us is the hostile party.

Him: "You won't surrender your weapon, and you won't show me your ID. What do you think is doing to happen?"
Me: "I think you're trying to intimidate me, and I don't appreciate it."
Him: "Sir, I just dont' understand why you're walking around with a handgun."
Me: "Because if I walked in here with my rifle, I could start a panic."

At this point I already figure I'm getting arrested, especially when an older officer comes over. To my surprise he holds out his arm and steps between us. The older officer then looks at me and says...

"Sir, I apologize for your being delayed, please be on your way."
Him: "He's carrying a gun."
Veteran Officer: "He's not breaking any law, and you're bordering on harassment." ::looks at me again:: "Have a nice day Sir."

I took that as my cue to get the hell out of there. I admit I could have handled this better, but simple text does not sufficiently communicate how hostile this cop was being. I have an issue with officer's who think owning a badge is an exemption from behaving with civility toward others. I do however appreciate the veteran officer reigning in the rookie who was obviously still on that fresh-badge power trip.

I bring this situation up solely to point out this is the ONLY negative incident I've had with any Louisville LEO, and when it happened a more veteran officer settled it politely upon taking note of the situation.
 

09jisaac

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,692
Location
Louisa, Kentucky
You understood the laws and your rights and stood firmly on them.

I don't see how you could have handled it much better. If something would have went wrong (like him detaining you) it would have all been on him.
 

WhistlingJack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
45
Location
Louisville, Ky
You understood the laws and your rights and stood firmly on them.

I don't see how you could have handled it much better. If something would have went wrong (like him detaining you) it would have all been on him.

Well, I appreciate your affirmation.
 
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WhistlingJack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
45
Location
Louisville, Ky
Great job on your part. You defended your right perfectly. Congratulations. Which Thornton's was it? Welcome to the forum, we need more like you.

Thank you for your affirmation as well. One of the Thorton's on Poplar Level, don't know the actual address.

Interestingly, I had never seen this one particular group of officers before, and have not seen any from that group since. That suits me fine, I'd rather not have to deal with Junior again.
 
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scott58dh

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Messages
425
Location
why?
Him: "You won't surrender your weapon, and you won't show me your ID. What do you think is going to happen?"
Me: "I think you're trying to intimidate me, and I don't appreciate it."
Him: "Sir, I just dont' understand why you're walking around with a handgun."
Me: "Because if I walked in here with my rifle, I could start a panic."


At this point I already figure I'm getting arrested, especially when an older officer comes over. To my surprise he holds out his arm and steps between us. The older officer then looks at me and says...

"Sir, I apologize for your being delayed, please be on your way."
Him: "He's carrying a gun.":shocker: !!! WHINE :cry: !!!
Veteran Officer: "He's not breaking any law, and you're bordering on harassment." ::looks at me again:: "Have a nice day Sir."

I took that as my cue to get the hell out of there. I admit I could have handled this better, but simple text does not sufficiently communicate how hostile this cop was being. I have an issue with officer's who think owning a badge is an exemption from behaving with civility toward others. I do however appreciate the veteran officer reigning in the rookie who was obviously still on that fresh-badge power trip.

I bring this situation up solely to point out this is the ONLY negative incident I've had with any Louisville LEO, and when it happened a more veteran officer settled it politely upon taking note of the situation.[/QUOTE]

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I just ABSOLUTELY LOVE this LEO incident account !!!

I'm quite certain that the *LEO ROOKIE* had a Quick Training session following this occurrence.

Oh yeah, one more thing, ***JOHN WAYNE SYNDROME*** can happen to Anyone CARRYING !!

That's why pre-disposition (training &/or Practice Makes Perfect) is vital to a proper attitude of having the privilege to possess a Firearm.

Never go into a situation where You are susceptible to becoming the victim, regardless of which side of the law is being represented,,(LEO or BG) have a plan *A* / *B* / & *C* !!!
 
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scott58dh

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Messages
425
Location
why?
Thank you for your affirmation as well. One of the Thorton's on Poplar Level, don't know the actual address.
Interestingly, I had never seen this one particular group of officers before, and have not seen any from that group since. That suits me fine, I'd rather not have to deal with Junior again.

That group of LEO's could've been your *Guardian Angels* for a day !:lol:
 

neuroblades

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
1,240
Location
, Kentucky, USA
Kudos to you on your proper and direct response to the situation. It's rare to have an incident such as this in Kentucky these days but unfortunately, it does still occur from time to time. You handled this situation very well and it's great to see and read that there are some well informed officer out there as well.
 

WhistlingJack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
45
Location
Louisville, Ky
Kudos to you on your proper and direct response to the situation. It's rare to have an incident such as this in Kentucky these days but unfortunately, it does still occur from time to time. You handled this situation very well and it's great to see and read that there are some well informed officer out there as well.

Thank You
Like I said, I've been OCing for awhile and this is the only incident I've had with Louisville LEO's (and one of only 3 total), and yeah I am very grateful to the older officer, situation could have been much more of a pain otherwise.
 
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KYGlockster

Activist Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
1,842
Location
Ashland, KY
Very well done! If you ever see the elder officer again you should thank him for protecting your rights. I know it is their job and everything, but in this day and age it is wonderful to hear of an officer actually take our side and not his brother officer's. With all the police corruption these days we are constantly hearing about, it is sure nice to hear of an officer that remembers the oath he took.
 
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WhistlingJack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
45
Location
Louisville, Ky
Very well done! If you ever see the elder officer again you should thank him for protecting your rights. I know it is their job and everything, but in this day and age it is wonderful to hear of an officer actually take our side and not his brother officer's. With all the police corruption these days we are constantly hearing about, it is sure nice to hear of an officer that remembers the oath he took.

Oh certainly, if I do see him again I intend to thank him for his intervention. Always good when a watcher is watching other watchers.
 

P95

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2012
Messages
20
Location
Central Kentucky
You handled the encounter very well. Maybe Barnie will think twice before making himself look stupid.
 

kywildcat581

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
107
Location
Louisville, Kentucky, USA
This encounter would have bothered me for different reasons... if this would have been me it would have went like this..

(Me Open Carrying)
Officer: I need to see your concealed weapons permit

This is where it would have changed, I would legally be required to show it to him for no reason at all. Which would have changed the way this went and the rookie LEO would have not been educated. I believe there should be a part of the show the permit on demand section that only has to legally be shown when carrying concealed and made, or if I am breaking a law period.

If I was OC, it would have been irrational to ask me for my permit, hmmm may have found an uneasy grey area..

Either way, nice way to handle this situation and I am glad there was an officer there for education purposes.
 

DocWalker

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,922
Location
Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
Good job, I would also say I would send a copy of what happened to the Chief of Police with a thank you to the veteran cop for know the laws and restraining the rookie from costing the city a lot of money. For if the rookie had arrested you, then you would have had to file a wrongful arrest and harrasment lawsuits against the city.

Praise the veteran officer while making the chief aware he needs to train his rookies better.
 

flb_78

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Messages
544
Location
Gravel Switch, KY
This encounter would have bothered me for different reasons... if this would have been me it would have went like this..

(Me Open Carrying)
Officer: I need to see your concealed weapons permit

This is where it would have changed, I would legally be required to show it to him for no reason at all. Which would have changed the way this went and the rookie LEO would have not been educated. I believe there should be a part of the show the permit on demand section that only has to legally be shown when carrying concealed and made, or if I am breaking a law period.

If I was OC, it would have been irrational to ask me for my permit, hmmm may have found an uneasy grey area..

Either way, nice way to handle this situation and I am glad there was an officer there for education purposes.

I don't see where you would be required to hand over your CCDW since the firearm was not concealed.

The licensee shall carry the license at all times the licensee is carrying a concealed
firearm or other deadly weapon and shall display the license upon request of a law
enforcement officer
 

KYGlockster

Activist Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
1,842
Location
Ashland, KY
This encounter would have bothered me for different reasons... if this would have been me it would have went like this..

(Me Open Carrying)
Officer: I need to see your concealed weapons permit

This is where it would have changed, I would legally be required to show it to him for no reason at all. Which would have changed the way this went and the rookie LEO would have not been educated. I believe there should be a part of the show the permit on demand section that only has to legally be shown when carrying concealed and made, or if I am breaking a law period.

If I was OC, it would have been irrational to ask me for my permit, hmmm may have found an uneasy grey area..

Either way, nice way to handle this situation and I am glad there was an officer there for education purposes.

If you are stopped and you are openly carrying you are under no obligation to show your cdwl. The only time you must surrender your cdwl is if you are carrying a concealed weapon and the officer asks to see it.
 
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