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Thread: Hugs That Kill

  1. #1
    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    Hugs That Kill

    A lady hugs an off duty police officer and is shot by his duty pistol. Can you explain this to me?

    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20120709/D9VT4VMO2.html

  2. #2
    Regular Member hjmoosejaw's Avatar
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    A tragic occurrence. There are arguments as to what degree of readiness people should carry. IMO, it should have been made PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for this to happen.
    Last edited by hjmoosejaw; 07-09-2012 at 10:11 AM.
    watch your top knot !

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Personal opinion? There's more to this story than is being told. A properly holstered modern handgun is not, in my experience, just going to "go off" unless and until someone pulls the trigger. There is also the possibility that this officer did not have his weapon holstered. In that case, he needs to face charges. My reasoning? As a police officer, he should be held to a higher standard of professionalism.

    I do not see how being "hugged from behind" could make this happen unless one or the other had a hand on the weapon and put a finger on the trigger. Would love to know the brand and model of the weapon. That might, and I say "might", clear up a few points, but not all.

    Some of you folks who have far more experience than I do might want to chime in on this.

  4. #4
    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    According to other sources, it was a S&W M&P .40, IWB holster covered by his shirt. Even with mexican carry of a defective junker, I don't see how someone hugging you from behind gets one in the upper chest....


    unless you were surprised, turned, drew, and shot her.
    An AD of a holstered sidearm is more likely to strike the carrier.
    Last edited by zoom6zoom; 07-09-2012 at 10:27 AM.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    A lawyer for the Detroit Police Officers Association said it was just a "freak accident". The officer was dancing with his wife when a woman unknown to the couple came up from behind him and 'tugged at his waist."

    Hmmmm...
    On the one hand we have an inside-the-waistband holster, covering the firearm's trigger, covered by a trouser waistband, covered by a shirt.
    On the other hand we have..... a wife and a strange woman.

    But that's just speculation and innuendo on my part.

  6. #6
    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    A lawyer for the Detroit Police Officers Association said it was just a "freak accident". The officer was dancing with his wife when a woman unknown to the couple came up from behind him and 'tugged at his waist."

    Hmmmm...
    On the one hand we have an inside-the-waistband holster, covering the firearm's trigger, covered by a trouser waistband, covered by a shirt.
    On the other hand we have..... a wife and a strange woman.

    But that's just speculation and innuendo on my part.
    I think you're closer to the mark than I really want to believe. Possibly the husband covering for his wife's actions? Who knows? Doubt if we'll ever get the truth on this one.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoom6zoom View Post
    According to other sources, it was a S&W M&P .40, IWB holster covered by his shirt. Even with mexican carry of a defective junker, I don't see how someone hugging you from behind gets one in the upper chest....


    unless you were surprised, turned, drew, and shot her.
    An AD of a holstered sidearm is more likely to strike the carrier.
    If it'd had a trigger job, and if he was using a horribly defective shoulder holster, it's far fetched, but not impossible. Still his fault, either way.
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    I was thinking his shirt caught between the trigger and holster, taking up most of the trigger travel. Then the hug caused enough movement to break the trigger. What I can't fathom is a lung shot from a hip holster. Fouling a shoulder holster with a shirt seems less likely.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    .....sniff.....sniff....this one stinks.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoom6zoom View Post
    According to other sources, it was a S&W M&P .40, IWB holster covered by his shirt.
    Can you link to these stories? And is that all they say?

    Even considering the cheapest possible junk of a worn out holster being used as poorly as possible on the belt, with the most extreme freak accident, it does seem beyond absurd that it would be as simple as hug+holstered gun=blast to upper chest. So yeah, more information would be nice.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  11. #11
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    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    "...Goldpaugh, who spent several hours with the officer after the shooting, said the veteran beat patrolman was hosting a party at his home and was dancing with his wife when Miller came up behind him and tugged at his waist.
    “And the gun went off,” Goldpaugh said. “It’s a fluke accidental shooting.”
    The weapon, a department-issued, 40-caliber Smith & Wesson semiautomatic pistol [M&P series], was in a holster worn inside the officer’s waistband and was covered by his shirt, Goldpaugh said.
    Goldpaugh said the physical evidence from the incident corroborated the officer’s account of the shooting. The officer did not know the woman, who attended the party with other guests, Goldpaugh said.) - Freep.com
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 07-09-2012 at 01:57 PM.

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    UPDATED: Police on Monday identified the officer as Issac Parrish, a veteran officer who has been working for the department for nearly 16 years. Godbee said the off-duty holster the officer carried was soft enough for the trigger to be manipulated.

    http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...AGE|s#comments
    Interesting development.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCKilla View Post
    A lady hugs an off duty police officer and is shot by his duty pistol. Can you explain this to me?

    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20120709/D9VT4VMO2.html
    LEO was there with his wife. Girl gets flirty (as reported). Wife shoots girl. LEO and wife make up story. Done..

    He was carrying IWB concealed by what appears to be the most truthful reports.
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  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    "he off-duty holster the officer carried was soft enough for the trigger to be manipulated."

    What holster is that soft? His pocket?

    Seriously, this is just a sad story.
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  16. #16
    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    Here's an interesting video on fox. It shows a "firearms expert" opinion about neoprene holsters.

    http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/18...s-gun-goes-off

    There must be a lot of fabric material in the victims wound from all the layers the bullet passed through. I wonder if the bullet expanded before impact.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Neoprene IWB holster:
    Gunshop guy, "How do you manipulate this, I haven't figured it out."
    News reporter, "How do you shoot someone in the chest with a holster that's pointed down?"

    If you guys were among the only ones 'Professional enough' to carry in Detroit then maybe you'd know. Until then, stop trying to be as smart as they are and just take their word. It's not like they have anything to gain by covering for one of their officers.

  18. #18
    Regular Member onestar 50's Avatar
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    It's seem pretty strange to me that it happen that way. According to the video no way the trigger could be access.

  19. #19
    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Looked at the video. Don't know what the guy's qualifications are to be labeled as a "firearms expert", but, if that is a similar weapon and holster, he is right on the money.

    Something is still smelling to high heaven about this whole incident and I will repeat, "There is more to this story than is being told."

  20. #20
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Wow. This the best they could come up with? How about she went crazy and pulled the gun and they struggled for it... Give me something at least fathomable.
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  21. #21
    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    Wow. This the best they could come up with? How about she went crazy and pulled the gun and they struggled for it... Give me something at least fathomable.
    Better scenario: Wife caught him dancing with another woman, grabbed his gun (not necessarily where he said it was) and shot the other woman in a jealous rage.

    At least my fabrication is somewhat believable.

  22. #22
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    Todays story says she was on her knees dancing.

    http://www.freep.com/article/2012071...text|FRONTPAGE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Trucker View Post
    Todays story says she was on her knees dancing.

    http://www.freep.com/article/2012071...text|FRONTPAGE
    Looks cute ... now I think it is a murder ... see, even cops want to tell other cops "their story" and what is the result? Guilty verdict due soon.

  24. #24
    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Trucker View Post
    Todays story says she was on her knees dancing.

    http://www.freep.com/article/2012071...text|FRONTPAGE
    I know I'm old and not up to date on a lot of things, but that is the very first time I've heard that called dancing on one's knees!!

    I'll still go with the "wife in a jealous rage" theory and still believe the firearm was not where they said it was. There are just too many inconsistencies in the stories being told.

  25. #25
    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    I want to see a bullet hole in the LEO's pant leg. If not produced, speculations and suspicions will continue to grow.

    I still can't put my head around of how the trigger was pulled.

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