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Thread: "Hug" causes officers gun to go off and kill the hugger.

  1. #1
    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    "Hug" causes officers gun to go off and kill the hugger.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1659689.html

    I have a hard time believing this. I'm with Balash.


    "What's going to be very important here is the angle of the entry of the wound to the victim (and) if there is in fact any gunpowder residue," Balash said. "I'm having a great deal of difficulty understanding how a weapon that's pointed at the ground can be turned literally 110 degrees minimum to be in an upward position to strike someone."
    http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/video?au...clipId=7481212
    Last edited by sharkey; 07-09-2012 at 11:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkey View Post
    IF the gun was in a IWB holster as described on the officer's waist then the victim in order to be shot in the chest while dancing with him from behind must have been ON HER KNEES behind him!
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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    The story the Detroit Police Chief is telling should be prefaced with "Once upon a time..." inasmuch as it is a total fairy tale. Does anybody really believe that crap? Pax...
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    I'm not impressed with the S&W MP models .... many PDs in my state switched to it ... not a big fan of pistols although I own several ... I would carry my .357 single action, I can get a first shot off quicker than a pistol ...

    If that was you or me, we would be in jail right now...

    Likely had an angled holster ...

    Just glad it was a cop and not you or me....

    Some pistols (rifles and shotguns and others will too) will discharge if a round is kept in the chamber and it gets jostled ... I wonder if this is an issue with this gun?

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I'm not impressed with the S&W MP models .... many PDs in my state switched to it ... not a big fan of pistols although I own several ... I would carry my .357 single action, I can get a first shot off quicker than a pistol ...

    If that was you or me, we would be in jail right now...

    Likely had an angled holster ...

    Just glad it was a cop and not you or me....

    Some pistols (rifles and shotguns and others will too) will discharge if a round is kept in the chamber and it gets jostled ... I wonder if this is an issue with this gun?
    Just guessing but sounds like a ricochet, but the big question is who pulled the trigger. There is no such thing as accidents~~somebody pulled that trigger!

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Just guessing but sounds like a ricochet, but the big question is who pulled the trigger. There is no such thing as accidents~~somebody pulled that trigger!
    Or something within the physical realm engaged the trigger. Doesn't have to be a finger. Twigs have been known to catch and engage a trigger while hunting. Just saying.
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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I'm not impressed with the S&W MP models .... many PDs in my state switched to it ... not a big fan of pistols although I own several ... I would carry my .357 single action, I can get a first shot off quicker than a pistol ...


    Some pistols (rifles and shotguns and others will too) will discharge if a round is kept in the chamber and it gets jostled ... I wonder if this is an issue with this gun?
    I carry the M&P .45 as a primary and the M&P 9c as a backup. I have fired over 1000 rounds through each of them without issue. Now, I havent had any accidental with either one of them, and I even have kids who like to use daddy as a jungle gym. During "21 foot" practice, with a round in the chamber, I manage to get two shots off at about the 20 ft mark. Which is a great improvement over my Ruger P345, which has the world worst thumb safety. Someone would have the time to dig iron out of the ground, turn it into steel, pour a mold, sharpen the sword, and then walk up and stab me.
    Last edited by Tucker6900; 07-10-2012 at 02:15 PM.
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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I'm not impressed with the S&W MP models .... many PDs in my state switched to it ... not a big fan of pistols although I own several ... I would carry my .357 single action, I can get a first shot off quicker than a pistol ...

    If that was you or me, we would be in jail right now...

    Likely had an angled holster ...

    Just glad it was a cop and not you or me....

    Some pistols (rifles and shotguns and others will too) will discharge if a round is kept in the chamber and it gets jostled ... I wonder if this is an issue with this gun?
    Which pistols do you know of that have that issue?

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    Those pesky magically firing Detroit PD M&P's.
    Anybody remember the last one (Joseph Weekley), all the stories that were used to try and cover that up mess. That cop is still on paid vacation I think (over 2 years already). Maybe they need a different issue gun?

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    According to the S&W website, the M&P40 has only an external thumb safety, which probably works quite well... when engaged. Although not listed as a "safety", per se, the M&P is striker fired - which helps to minimize the potential for an accidental discharge. Given the "facts" (one of which stated the M&P40 has NO thumb safety) reported (accurately or inaccurately) in the media, there is nothing about this case which adds up. Pax...
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    Quote Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
    Which pistols do you know of that have that issue?
    well it looks like a moot point ... as it appears as if it was a murder ... but I have had issues with several models ... slap them around and ping! Off it goes....

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    According to the S&W website, the M&P40 has only an external thumb safety, which probably works quite well... when engaged. Although not listed as a "safety", per se, the M&P is striker fired - which helps to minimize the potential for an accidental discharge. Given the "facts" (one of which stated the M&P40 has NO thumb safety) reported (accurately or inaccurately) in the media, there is nothing about this case which adds up. Pax...
    The only thing that makes sense to me is the gun discharged, it struck and killed a young lady, and I have absolutely no doubt somebody had their finger on the trigger.

  13. #13
    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    well it looks like a moot point ... as it appears as if it was a murder ... but I have had issues with several models ... slap them around and ping! Off it goes....
    My question was not about the current situation really.

    Especially that you've owned several models of handgun that mysteriously will fire without a trigger pull, I'm really curious as to what these weapons were. For safety purposes and all.
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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    well it looks like a moot point ... as it appears as if it was a murder ... but I have had issues with several models ... slap them around and ping! Off it goes....
    I'm curious about the several models also. Did you return them to the manufacturer for repair? (I'm not a big fan of the S&W pistols anyway - they always impressed me as a bit 'delicate-looking' compared to my 1911's. S&W revolvers are a whole different story though.) My personal preferences notwithstanding, NO modern-day firearm should go **bang** unless the trigger is pulled. We live in the most litigious society ever known to mankind, and no manufacturer of anything - especially firearms - can afford to produce something that can accidentally cause death without intentional human interaction. Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 07-11-2012 at 10:53 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
    My question was not about the current situation really.

    Especially that you've owned several models of handgun that mysteriously will fire without a trigger pull, I'm really curious as to what these weapons were. For safety purposes and all.
    Some can discharge from being dropped. Not the M&P though, that's for sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    According to the S&W website, the M&P40 has only an external thumb safety, which probably works quite well... when engaged.
    The external thumb safety is optional, and the DPD pistols do not have them. All M&Ps have a hinged trigger safety similar to a Glock's.

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    The external thumb safety is optional, and the DPD pistols do not have them. All M&Ps have a hinged trigger safety similar to a Glock's.
    Yes, the S&W web site does state that the thumb safety is an optional feature, but nowhere on their site do they mention any other safety features at all. One would expect (especially if one did a site search for "safety features"), that any and all safety features would at least be mentioned, if not explained in full detail. I'm not being argumentative, nor am I doubting your statement. I'm simply amazed that S&W seems indifferent about specifying the sum total of safety features on their firearms. Seems to me that would be a selling point for a lot of folks just entering the handgun ownership arena. OTOH, experienced handgunners, and those who carry professionally, may find excessive safeties to be a PITA. Pax...
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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    well it looks like a moot point ... as it appears as if it was a murder ... but I have had issues with several models ... slap them around and ping! Off it goes....

    Man, you must have owned some triflin' POS firearms...

    If I ever owned a gun that would go off just from rough handling, I would take it to a good gunsmith and GET IT FIXED, or take it to one of those "Gun Buy Backs" that police have, and take the gift card to Wal Mart ad buy more ammo for my guns that worked properly.

    Just sayin'...
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    "What's going to be very important here is the angle of the entry of the wound to the victim (and) if there is in fact any gunpowder residue," Balash said. "I'm having a great deal of difficulty understanding how a weapon that's pointed at the ground can be turned literally 110 degrees minimum to be in an upward position to strike someone."

    Apparently, Detroit PD buys it's bullets from the same place Lee Harvey Oswald bought his, and they are using those magical "Dealy Plaza Rounds" that are capable of making u-turns and right-angle turns in mid-flight...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    Yes, the S&W web site does state that the thumb safety is an optional feature, but nowhere on their site do they mention any other safety features at all. One would expect (especially if one did a site search for "safety features"), that any and all safety features would at least be mentioned, if not explained in full detail. I'm not being argumentative, nor am I doubting your statement. I'm simply amazed that S&W seems indifferent about specifying the sum total of safety features on their firearms. Seems to me that would be a selling point for a lot of folks just entering the handgun ownership arena. OTOH, experienced handgunners, and those who carry professionally, may find excessive safeties to be a PITA. Pax...
    GLOCK had to make a big point about its internal safeties because when it first appeared on the scene many were shocked that it didn't have the customary external thumb safety. They had no choice but to tout all the internal safeties in order to placate the hysteria.

    1) Trigger Safety: An external integrated trigger safety lever mechanism contained within the trigger guard that prevents the trigger from moving unless the lever is depressed.
    The M&P uses the same system except that the lower portion of the trigger is hinged instead of a blade. Functionally it is the same.

    2) Striker Safety: A spring-loaded pin attached by an extension bar to the trigger assembly blocks the striker from striking the primer of the cartridge until the trigger is pulled.
    The M&P uses an internal, spring-loaded plunger that prevents firing pin movement until the rearward movement of the trigger bar deactivates just before it releases the sear to fire the pistol.

    3) Drop Safety: The far end of the same extension bar locks the striker into place from the rear until the trigger is pulled.
    Same on the M&P.


    The main differences between the two (and not germane to this particular situation) is that the S&W is available with a magazine disconnect safety and a manually operated thumb safety, both unavailable from GLOCK.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 07-12-2012 at 11:35 AM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    GLOCK had to make a big point about its internal safeties because when it first appeared on the scene many were shocked that it didn't have the customary external thumb safety. They had no choice but to tout all the internal safeties in order to placate the hysteria.

    1) Trigger Safety: An external integrated trigger safety lever mechanism contained within the trigger guard that prevents the trigger from moving unless the lever is depressed.
    The M&P uses the same system except that the lower portion of the trigger is hinged instead of a blade. Functionally it is the same.

    2) Striker Safety: A spring-loaded pin attached by an extension bar to the trigger assembly blocks the striker from striking the primer of the cartridge until the trigger is pulled.
    The M&P uses an internal, spring-loaded plunger that prevents firing pin movement until the rearward movement of the trigger bar deactivates just before it releases the sear to fire the pistol.

    3) Drop Safety: The far end of the same extension bar locks the striker into place from the rear until the trigger is pulled.
    Same on the M&P.


    The main differences between the two (and not germane to this particular situation) is that the S&W is available with a magazine disconnect safety and a manually operated thumb safety, both unavailable from GLOCK.
    Keep in mind that neither Glock nor S&W supply the gray matter safety, that keeps a booger finger off of the trigger when it is not supposed to be there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Apparently, Detroit PD buys it's bullets from the same place Lee Harvey Oswald bought his, and they are using those magical "Dealy Plaza Rounds" that are capable of making u-turns and right-angle turns in mid-flight...
    You do know that Oliver Stone made that up right?, or are you actually basing that statement off of an Oliver Stone Movie? That's where the whole "magic bullet" myth came from, in reality if you line up the shot as everyone actually was while seated in the car the bullet moved in a strait line.

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    ?

    What does this have to do with OPEN CARRY?

    Seems like a COP BASHING SESSION.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hahah View Post
    What does this have to do with OPEN CARRY?

    Seems like a COP BASHING SESSION.

    What department do you work for officer hahah?

    You seem to be the only person offended by the discussion of yet another Detroit cop that has a magic gun that killed yet another innocent person and has a very mysterous story. Where is the bashing you refer to?

  25. #25
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    GLOCK had to make a big point about its internal safeties because when it first appeared on the scene many were shocked that it didn't have the customary external thumb safety. They had no choice but to tout all the internal safeties in order to placate the hysteria.

    1) Trigger Safety: An external integrated trigger safety lever mechanism contained within the trigger guard that prevents the trigger from moving unless the lever is depressed.
    The M&P uses the same system except that the lower portion of the trigger is hinged instead of a blade. Functionally it is the same.

    2) Striker Safety: A spring-loaded pin attached by an extension bar to the trigger assembly blocks the striker from striking the primer of the cartridge until the trigger is pulled.
    The M&P uses an internal, spring-loaded plunger that prevents firing pin movement until the rearward movement of the trigger bar deactivates just before it releases the sear to fire the pistol.

    3) Drop Safety: The far end of the same extension bar locks the striker into place from the rear until the trigger is pulled.
    Same on the M&P.


    The main differences between the two (and not germane to this particular situation) is that the S&W is available with a magazine disconnect safety and a manually operated thumb safety, both unavailable from GLOCK.

    Calling Glock's firing-pin lockout mechanism a "Safety" is like calling the gas pedal on a Porsche 911 Turbo with no brake pedal a "safety mechanism".

    As long as you don't push toe "go" button, you've got nothing to worry about...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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