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Thread: I've been every where man! OC

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    Regular Member Tanner's Avatar
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    I've been every where man! OC

    so by now we have been just about everywhere. NY to UT to AZ to TX to MI to MA. We have been getting some long trips and have been from east to west a few times now wich is not to common now a days since most of the cross country freight is shipped via train. I vaguely remember learning in trucker school that there was some kind of regulation against carrying in the cab of a truck. I have been looking in the FMCSR (federal motor carrier safety regulations) and so far havent found anything. Any ways at the very least we would be confined to local regulation. That being said we can travel form one end of the country to the next in 2 1/2 days. It is also swifts policy to have no firearms.
    while company policy dosent really bother me it would be impossibe to keep up with local regulation.

    Since internet is rare for us out here it may be a while before I can read the replies.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanner View Post
    so by now we have been just about everywhere. NY to UT to AZ to TX to MI to MA. We have been getting some long trips and have been from east to west a few times now wich is not to common now a days since most of the cross country freight is shipped via train. I vaguely remember learning in trucker school that there was some kind of regulation against carrying in the cab of a truck. I have been looking in the FMCSR (federal motor carrier safety regulations) and so far havent found anything. Any ways at the very least we would be confined to local regulation. That being said we can travel form one end of the country to the next in 2 1/2 days. It is also swifts policy to have no firearms.
    while company policy dosent really bother me it would be impossibe to keep up with local regulation.

    Since internet is rare for us out here it may be a while before I can read the replies.
    I sincerely hope you didn't OC in some of the states you posted, NY, TX, MA

    http://opencarry.org/opencarry.html


    http://opencarry.org/travel.html

    My cousin's husband drives for the same company (iirc) and believe he said the same thing about a fed reg disallowing truckers to carry... he could never provide a cite.

    http://askthetrucker.com/cdl-federal-gun-law/
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    Regular Member Tanner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent19 View Post
    I sincerely hope you didn't OC in some of the states you posted, NY, TX, MA

    http://opencarry.org/opencarry.html


    http://opencarry.org/travel.html

    My cousin's husband drives for the same company (iirc) and believe he said the same thing about a fed reg disallowing truckers to carry... he could never provide a cite.

    http://askthetrucker.com/cdl-federal-gun-law/
    I may be stupid but im not dumb. I dident even bother bringing it. We are only doing this for 2 months and decided it wasent worth the troubble. I would like to bring it but decided against it. We do have other means of self defense available though.

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    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    There is NO law prohibiting possession of a firearm in a commercial vehicle. Think about it this way, if there was a law then why would all these companies have a policy stating that you can't have a firearm in the truck? I've never seen a company policy stating that you can't have alcohol in the truck, that's because a policy is not needed because unmanifested alcohol on a commercial vehicle is mentioned as being prohibited in the FMCSR unless it's in the possession of and for the use of passengers on the bus that's carrying it.

    If carrying a firearm in a commercial vehicle was illegal then I would have been locked up a long time ago, instead the Powhatan Deputy working the licence checkpoint on US 522 didn't even bat an eyelid when he was eye level with my open carried handgun last year.

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    Regular Member Tanner's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=scouser;1785402 Think about it this way, if there was a law then why would all these companies have a policy stating that you can't have a firearm in the truck? I've never seen a company policy stating that you can't have alcohol in the truck
    [/QUOTE]

    You make a good point. And I am most definatly not saying that there IS a regulation saying we cant. However I remember at one point reading something pertaining to firearms. Like I said I am still looking and will be going back to the school I attended in a about a week. Will post something when I get lerned about it.

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    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    You don't need to ask some trucking school about it, you don't need to ask your employer about it. Both of them are likely to mislead you into thinking it is a crime to have a firearm in a commercial vehicle. Read every single word in the FMCSR, you will not find anything telling you it is illegal to have a personal firearm in a commercial vehicle.

    Remember your lessons about open carry in Virginia? Laws forbid things, the absense of a law forbidding something will, by default, mean it's not illegal.

    My example in Powhatan from last year, the door of the truck was open, I was sitting in the driver's seat turned to face the deputy, both my knees were pointed out of the door of the truck. It was impossible for him not to see the firearm on my right hip. He didn't say a thing about it, all he was interested in seeing was my CDL and my medical card, didn't even ask to see my logbook. If there had been any doubt in his mind as to whether what I was doing was illegal he wouldn't have waved me on my way with a 'have a nice day'. The company I was working for then had a policy against firearms in their trucks, but my boss did not enforce it. I know he had no interest in that policy because when we started making deliveries to AAFES (in Ft Eustis & Langley AFB) he said to me "I don't want to know what you do at the moment, I'll just say this to you, when you go to those bases do NOT have a gun in the truck".

  7. #7
    Regular Member Tanner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    You don't need to ask some trucking school about it, you don't need to ask your employer about it. Both of them are likely to mislead you into thinking it is a crime to have a firearm in a commercial vehicle. Read every single word in the FMCSR, you will not find anything telling you it is illegal to have a personal firearm in a commercial vehicle.

    Remember your lessons about open carry in Virginia? Laws forbid things, the absense of a law forbidding something will, by default, mean it's not illegal.

    My example in Powhatan from last year, the door of the truck was open, I was sitting in the driver's seat turned to face the deputy, both my knees were pointed out of the door of the truck. It was impossible for him not to see the firearm on my right hip. He didn't say a thing about it, all he was interested in seeing was my CDL and my medical card, didn't even ask to see my logbook. If there had been any doubt in his mind as to whether what I was doing was illegal he wouldn't have waved me on my way with a 'have a nice day'. The company I was working for then had a policy against firearms in their trucks, but my boss did not enforce it. I know he had no interest in that policy because when we started making deliveries to AAFES (in Ft Eustis & Langley AFB) he said to me "I don't want to know what you do at the moment, I'll just say this to you, when you go to those bases do NOT have a gun in the truck".
    Simmer down now! I respect that you are passionate about this. Even more so because you are a truck driver. I simply said that I remember learning something about firearms in the FMCSR. No one will mislead me into thinking it is illigal until I see the specific cite that says it is. After hours of reading the riviting FMCSR I havent been able to find anything! The school (since this is where I remember learning about this) will probably be able to point me in the right direction.

    I read the thread where you listed this experience in the truck. The very first thing I learned when starting to research OC was that it is silly to ask a cop what the law is. You were specifically one of many who got a laugh out of that. So i would like to offer that just beause they dident do anything about it does not mean they were aware of the regulation that may or may not acctually be there. AGAIN I AM NOT SAYING THAT THERE IS

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    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanner View Post
    Simmer down now! I respect that you are passionate about this. Even more so because you are a truck driver. I simply said that I remember learning something about firearms in the FMCSR. No one will mislead me into thinking it is illigal until I see the specific cite that says it is.
    I don't need simmering down, and I apologize if I gave that impression. Yes, I'm passionate about this misconception a lot of people have that firearms are illegal in commercial vehicles. But my intention was to drill the idea into your head that the schools and trucking companies are not going to tell you anything favorable about firearms. You won't see the cite, it doesn't exist


    Quote Originally Posted by Tanner View Post
    After hours of reading the riviting FMCSR I havent been able to find anything!
    Because it isn't there

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanner View Post
    The school (since this is where I remember learning about this) will probably be able to point me in the right direction.
    no they won't

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanner View Post
    I read the thread where you listed this experience in the truck. The very first thing I learned when starting to research OC was that it is silly to ask a cop what the law is. You were specifically one of many who got a laugh out of that. So i would like to offer that just beause they dident do anything about it does not mean they were aware of the regulation that may or may not acctually be there. AGAIN I AM NOT SAYING THAT THERE IS
    I didn't ask the deputy, I didn't need to because I knew I wasn't doing anything illegal. I did have a hidden (because it was in my shorts' pocket and had an external mic under my shirt) voice recorder running at the time of the stop (it had been running all day just in case), but he was a credit to his badge and acted in the professional manner everyone so employed should behave. With hindsight being 20/20 I wish I'd got his name so I could have passed on my impressions of him to the sheriff. I think some of us are all too quick to raise hell about LEOs behaving badly, perhaps some praise for the ones doing their job properly wouldn't go amiss.

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    With hindsight being 20/20 I wish I'd got his name so I could have passed on my impressions of him to the sheriff. I think some of us are all too quick to raise hell about LEOs behaving badly, perhaps some praise for the ones doing their job properly wouldn't go amiss.
    Jacket stuffing works both ways

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    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Regular Member Tanner's Avatar
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    I feel things are being lost in translation. IF I find anything about firearms in the FMCSR I will post it.

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    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanner View Post
    I feel things are being lost in translation. IF I find anything about firearms in the FMCSR I will post it.
    A quick way, the FMCSR is accessable online. You can search the text of it online, will save you a lot of time reading through. However, there is nothing prohibiting possession of personal firearms in a commercial vehicle in the FMCSR

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    If you go across country and want to carry, and some states that don't allow with permit/like Illinois.



    I think its safe to say, take it down, field strip, and lock it in a box, and if you got a magaizine over 10rounds, break it down. Put it in a lock box and away from the drivers reach. I would never step into a state where it doesn't allow for self defence of life.

    Never ever go to DC.
    I think its legal in all 50 states to have a gun in the car, locked/stripped down in a box. But never DC. Never!!!!!
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 07-10-2012 at 08:39 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Regular Member Lincoln7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I sincerely hope you didn't OC in some of the states you posted, NY, TX, MA
    MA has no law against open carrying a firearm. Although I doubt Tanner has a Class A or B MA LTC.

    TX allows open carrying of a firearm while traveling:
    "Sec. 46.02(a) of the Texas penal Code says it is illegal to carry a handgun.
    (b)Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
    (2)is traveling"

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lincoln7 View Post
    MA has no law against open carrying a firearm. Although I doubt Tanner has a Class A or B MA LTC.

    TX allows open carrying of a firearm while traveling:
    "Sec. 46.02(a) of the Texas penal Code says it is illegal to carry a handgun.
    (b)Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
    (2)is traveling"
    Being this is open carry I presume we were discussing unlicensed carry..
    Knowing Tanner is from VA and seems to be fairly new to this I doubt he has a MA persmission slip, so my statement with regards to MA stands.

    TX- I don't find that wording:

    http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u...E.46.htm#46.02
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Then again, if you pass along a compliment to the boss of a cop who did his job he may get in trouble because he did his job.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    SCOUSER and MARKO are correct the only law you would have to go by is the federal transport laws. which state that you can travel with a firearm through any state, as long as the firearm is unloaded and out of the reach of any passenger in the vehicle.or in other words, locked in the trunk(or some other locked device).

    as of July that does apply to DC also. (see Millers last report)

    now if you stop somewhere you can fall under the local laws. but for the most part if you do the federal thing they most of the time can't do anything

    PS. do not consent to a search. period
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    FOPA applies to transporting a firearm from one place where it is legal to possess to another place where it is legal to possess while traveling directly through jurisdictions where possession is not legal. If Tanner were, for instance, to go visit his GF's father in NY he could not count on protection under FOPA since he does not have a NY firearms license (or should not, since he abandoned his residence there in spite of still having NY tags on his car). But if he were travelling from Virginia through NY to get to Maine for a lobster roll FOPA would cover him.

    Even though Tanner is pointing a Swift truck all over the countryside he can be covered by FOPA as long as he starts where it is legal on his way to where it is legal and makes only stops incidental to his journey in non-legal jurisdictions. Stopping in Maryland to drop off a part of a load while on his way to Iowa probably will not be considered "incidental" while stopping in that state for fuel, a meal or a bathroom break would.

    Firearm laws are like the tax code, except there is no central agency (like the IRS) where you can go to get the wrong answer. On the other hand, like the IRS, you cannot rely on following the instructions in a written answer should it later be proverd that the answer was wrong.

    stay safe.

    PS - poppa bear, my comment is more for Tanner than as a direct response to what you posted. Tanner is still learning and often needs things spelled out He's getting better, but probably should not take the training wheels off just yet.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post

    as of July that does apply to DC also. (see Millers last report)
    It's always applied in DC. The thugs there just didn't care.

    Roscoe
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Regular Member Lincoln7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post

    It's in the link you provided:

    (b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
    (2) is traveling;

  20. #20
    Regular Member Tanner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    FOPA applies to transporting a firearm from one place where it is legal to possess to another place where it is legal to possess while traveling directly through jurisdictions where possession is not legal. If Tanner were, for instance, to go visit his GF's father in NY he could not count on protection under FOPA since he does not have a NY firearms license (or should not, since he abandoned his residence there in spite of still having NY tags on his car). But if he were travelling from Virginia through NY to get to Maine for a lobster roll FOPA would cover him.

    Even though Tanner is pointing a Swift truck all over the countryside he can be covered by FOPA as long as he starts where it is legal on his way to where it is legal and makes only stops incidental to his journey in non-legal jurisdictions. Stopping in Maryland to drop off a part of a load while on his way to Iowa probably will not be considered "incidental" while stopping in that state for fuel, a meal or a bathroom break would.

    Firearm laws are like the tax code, except there is no central agency (like the IRS) where you can go to get the wrong answer. On the other hand, like the IRS, you cannot rely on following the instructions in a written answer should it later be proverd that the answer was wrong.

    stay safe.

    PS - poppa bear, my comment is more for Tanner than as a direct response to what you posted. Tanner is still learning and often needs things spelled out He's getting better, but probably should not take the training wheels off just yet.

    Thanks again skid. This is exactly the reason I decided against bringing a firearm. Though I did not know the true legality behind it the best decision was to leave it where I know its legal. We do have other means of self protection. The training wheels are most deffinatly staying on for a while. There is a added variable added when Rachelle starts her shift. For instance I may be protected by FOPA if I start and end a trip in the right states. However I do see a loophole if she were to start her trip in the wrong state. Besides it would be impossible to keep track of even the state regs the way we drive. 80% of the time I cant even recall what state im in. Not because im dumb but because we can travel from east to west north to south in a few days.

    I will say that doing the OTR (over the road) thing again even for 2 months has made me appreciate home, and I think ill be calling VA home for a while. well as soon as I get the tags

  21. #21
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanner View Post
    I think ill be calling VA home for a while. well as soon as I get the tags

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanner View Post
    .... There is a added variable added when Rachelle starts her shift. For instance I may be protected by FOPA if I start and end a trip in the right states. However I do see a loophole if she were to start her trip in the wrong state. ....

    Tanner, dear boy. You had it when you used the term "shift" but then lost it at the end there.

    If she has been travelling along with you she starts the trip in the same place you do. Generally speaking, your trips while on the road start from where you pick up a load and end where you drop it off. If you are dropping off partial loads in different places, each leg counts as a separate trip.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  23. #23
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    There is a podcast called the RoadGunner podcast (on the gun rights radio network). The host is a truck driver, and carries a gun, where he can. He has a few episodes covering the legal aspect of carrying a gun in a truck, and FOPA (in states where he does not have a reciprocal permit.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Tanner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Tanner, dear boy. You had it when you used the term "shift" but then lost it at the end there.

    If she has been travelling along with you she starts the trip in the same place you do. Generally speaking, your trips while on the road start from where you pick up a load and end where you drop it off. If you are dropping off partial loads in different places, each leg counts as a separate trip.

    stay safe.
    That is a negative on that one. Consider that when she is logging her driver status as sleeper birth she is not in any way responsible for the load or the activities asscoiated with getting it. So when she starts the trip on her log she may be in the wrong state. I guess there are two ways to look at it.

    If carrying a load of beer we only need permits for the states of origin and destination, every state in between needs no permit. I always assume the worst when dealing with legal issues. Its no stretch of the imagination that there could be potential problems with the team aspect of driving for FOPA to apply. The load may have started in a safe state but she could start it in the wrong one. I guess the question would be does FOPA apply to the individual or the load? I would guess the individual in this case. But in all reality this whole situation is probably extremely rare. Im willing to bet that if this situation were to come up nobody would have a clue what was really legal. Then we get to pay a lawyer a boad load of $ to set the record straight.

    These are just the rambelings of a tired and confused mind. mostly confused

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Tanner -

    As long as she is in the truck with you she is on the same journey as you. Her stopping and starting to be the official driver has nothing to do with it.

    Please come home soon so I can hit you upside the head and try to knock some sense into you. You always look for the way to make things hard or complicated, even when they are not.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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