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Produce ID for the police?

If the police want to see your ID because you are OCing, should you give it to them?

  • Yes

    Votes: 15 12.5%
  • No

    Votes: 82 68.3%
  • Generally yes, but in some cases, no (please post and explain)

    Votes: 5 4.2%
  • Generally no, but in some cases, yes (post and explain)

    Votes: 18 15.0%

  • Total voters
    120

QilvinLEO

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
46
Location
Missouri
I don't need to check, I know I'm not. Typically the only people that want to demand ID are pushy, authoritarian, cops who are looking to put someone in jail because what they are witnessing isn't sufficient, they want to check for background wants&warrants. Since I have no need to be there and no desire to assist Officer Friendly in his pursuits, I'll refrain, thank-you-very-much.


I also went to school long enough to realize the difference between "your" and "you're."



That is your right. I know how a fragmented sentence looks as well. But I will continue to have a good debate while you are attacking people for grammer. Maybe you should use your education to read the forum rules? Grow up.
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
I said Yes.


Who saw that coming? Typically the only people that say No and walk away are dirtbags. Now, as soon as you jump on your bandwagon of ITS MY RIGHT how about you just say "No Officer, It is my 2nd admendment right to have this firearm and I can refuse you're request. Are you demanding?:


Have you checked if your a dirtbag today?

Do you apply the same reasoning if your not OCing?

How about we just pass a law that cops can stop people at random on the street and run their papers for warrants? This would be a great way to round up the riffraff
 

Fuller Malarkey

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
1,020
Location
The Cadre
But I will continue to have a good debate while you are attacking people for grammer.



Typically, debate implies we engage in argument by discussing opposing points. Based on your sentence slaughter and lack of basic spelling skill, [grammer vs proper spelling, grammar], I doubt it would be a stretch to surmise your actual intent is to antagonize, rather than engage in debate. I offer your quip of "Typically the only people that say No and walk away are dirtbags" as an example of antagonistic participation. Nothing you've contributed in this thread indicates a desire on your part to debate.

There. My debt to society has had a bit of it chipped away though tutelage of the communicatively handicapped. I may have, however, violated the second directive found in Matthew 7:6.
 
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Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
Oh, ye of the "REFUSING to talk to the police. STUPID" thread.
We all realize that being able to go up to someone and demand they answer your questions, would make your job easier.
We all realize that being able to go up to someone with inchoate hunches and being able to demand they identify themselves to you would make your job easier.
There are lots of things that would make your life easier. We get it, really we do.

-But-

We make the laws. We hire people to enforce them.
That we don't have a law demanding we carry identification 24/7; that we don't have laws mandating that we talk to the police; don't have laws mandating that the guilty confess when interviewed might just tell you something. At least we hope so.
 
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Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
But I will continue to have a good debate while you are attacking people for grammer. Maybe you should use your education to read the forum rules? Grow up.
I think you'd be best served by leaving my grandmother out of this.
She was a really nice person and .......... wait, did you mean grammar???
 
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sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
I refused to show ID on several occasions, my city settled with me not to take them to Federal court, but then they decided to harass MSGLagae. Officer Bass doesn't understand the limited scope of his authority and feels he has the right to break the Settlement agreement I had with the City.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
I said Yes.


Who saw that coming? Typically the only people that say No and walk away are dirtbags. Now, as soon as you jump on your bandwagon of ITS MY RIGHT how about you just say "No Officer, It is my 2nd admendment right to have this firearm and I can refuse you're request. Are you demanding?:


Have you checked if your a dirtbag today?

How did I miss this gem earlier?

This has the same specious underpinnings as StarGateRancher's comment to the effect that criminals exercise their rights and innocent sheeple don't. And, deserves a similar reply.

What utter hogwash! Lets first only briefly address the fact that QuilvinLEO just associated patriotic citizens who exercise their rights with criminals. What a way to win friends and persuade people.

Basically what this boils down to is that this cop's understanding and respect for rights is based on the people he's seen exercise them. Essentially, he's totally upside down. Rights are for the good guys for the most part; it is thoroughly understood that protecting bad guys is incidental*, and it is thoroughly understood that letting some crime go undetected and unpunished is part of the price we pay to keep government in check. Basically, he's saying that if lots more people exercised their rights, then police would be less suspicious of those who did. The problem being that rights are not subject to the subjective reality of cops.

*Not counting a few points like protections against excessive bail and cruel and unusual punishments.
 
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Cten85

New member
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
7
Location
West virginia
I voted yes

If the cop is being polite and understanding, I would because I have nothing to hide and I think we need some positive PR. It would help with future relations with my small town officers. I am new to OC and still learning before I attempt it haha
 

PistolPackingMomma

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
1,884
Location
SC
It's a personal choice, so if you want to produce ID when you've committed no crime, okay. But understand, we don't refuse because we have something to hide; we do it because we value our rights, and if we don't, the cops won't. When you comply with a request/unlawful demand, you not only risk being subjected to further fishing, but you also train the cop to expect compliance and cooperation from future stopped citizens.

Here's an excellent video that provides an alternative view point that you may want to consider.

[video=youtube;6wXkI4t7nuc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc[/video]


If you still want to cooperate with police after watching this video, then go for it. I just want you to hear the reasons from the other side of the fence, regarding why some of us do not comply with requests or unlawful demands.
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
If the cop is being polite and understanding, I would because I have nothing to hide and I think we need some positive PR. It would help with future relations with my small town officers. I am new to OC and still learning before I attempt it haha

"future relations"? I get along excellently with my local police ... they leave me alone and I leave them alone. I don't want "relations". I lobby hard to reduce the size of our local PD force and to lower the compensation of the police; all to lower my tax burden. I pay $300/yr for police who are overpaid, to numerous, and really provide no services. We could do with three or four but we have 17...for a town with no crime (and this relates to the people, not # of cops).

I have also lived in a town without police ! What?? Yes, no police. And crime? None..because everyone was armed..criminals went to places that had police departments and to steal from their communities and their stupid people who did not arm themselves and felt that they pay a lot of money for a police force to protect themselves from criminals and then believed that they would be safe.

A cop is not going to keep me safe. A .357 on my hip will.

The government should be pushing people to get guns not trying to restrict gun ownership. But, of course, if we all had guns, crime would be low and the need for police almost eliminated...then how would the government control us?
 

Maine Expat

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
235
Location
Ukraine & Bangor Maine
We get it, we get it ... anything a cop wants to do is OK with you. You'll be one of the first assimilated ...:cool:

Slow day Dave? You had to go looking for a week+ old post to dig on?

And after all the numerous times I've posted what MY motivation is you still don't get it.

AGAIN

I'll type a little slower for you this time.

-I belong to Oath Keepers
-My FIRST mission is to the Oath Keepers mission.
-The Oath Keepers' mission is Reach out, Teach & Inspire (RTI) any and all oath takers (LEOs, Military, retirees, vets, etc) to remember their oaths to protect the constitution and KEEP that oath.
-I cannot fulfill my PRIMARY OK mission if I act like a shade tree lawyer and slam the door on a potential OK brother or sister.
-I will NOT turn away an opportunity to talk with an O.T.
-It takes an open door to communicate.

Okay? Got it now Dave?

Sorry for getting snippy, but really. Let a guy do his work the way it works for him and stop assuming he's just a spineless twit who rolls over at the drop of a hat. I will choose when & where to stand, not you.
 
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Fuller Malarkey

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
1,020
Location
The Cadre
If the cop is being polite and understanding, I would because I have nothing to hide and I think we need some positive PR. It would help with future relations with my small town officers. I am new to OC and still learning before I attempt it haha

Just something to mull around....

Police have only one reason for requesting your ID...

It's the first step of building a prosecution against you. The first step in finding reason, with little effort, of removing your freedom or your money. A no-risk fishing expedition. I feel no obligation, morally or legally, in assisting in that effort. None.

A more candid view point......


Rolling over on your back like a cowed dog is not improving the "PR" of open carry in the eyes of the cop intent on manipulating you into forfeiting our rights. It reinforces the behavior that needs to be changed.

I have trained horses and dogs most of my life. It's frustrating when someone enters the picture and un-does all the efforts put into correcting a behavior problem. Firm, consistent discipline is required to break a dog of jumping on people, for example. It can change having an animal you resent and distrust into having a useful trusted companion. It all hinges on the discipline you apply, and when. I don't tolerate a dog jumping on me. One of the main reasons why dogs will jump up on people is a way of dominating. They want to show that they are the tough one and by acting aggressive and even playful they can achieve what they want, which is dominance. When a dog jumps on a human of its own free will, it is not "greeting" the human, it is asserting its dominance over the human; it is the dog communicating that it is alpha and/or wishes to own/control the human. A subordinate would never dream of running over and jumping on the alpha dog of the pack. Space is respect and lower members of the pack respect the higher members. If your dog jumps on humans, it does not respect them. Dogs like and need consistency, so if you are not allowing your dog to jump on you, everyone in the family and everyone who greets the dog must do the same. It will only confuse a dog if you allow them to jump on some people who say they do not mind, and tell him not to jump on others. Having a confused, aggressive dog around is not safe or comforting. While the dog is viewed as the problem, the truth is the responsibility lies on who allowed the behavior to build to the point it becomes a problem.

No small amount of effort, trial, error, disappointment and triumph goes into training a dog. I hope you don't find it unreasonable if I ask that you don't undo all that by using the same firm and consistent discipline we use.

At least consider this: You're setting someone else up to be jumped on by ignoring this basic handling information. Nobody deserves that, and you're instilling confusion in the beast that will require some harsh discipline to correct.
 

Cten85

New member
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
7
Location
West virginia
"future relations"? I get along excellently with my local police ... they leave me alone and I leave them alone. I don't want "relations". I lobby hard to reduce the size of our local PD force and to lower the compensation of the police; all to lower my tax burden. I pay $300/yr for police who are overpaid, to numerous, and really provide no services. We could do with three or four but we have 17...for a town with no crime (and this relates to the people, not # of

A cop is not going to keep me safe. A .357 on my hip

I concealed carry every day, I'm new to the idea of open carry so I have been watching many YouTube videos of police encounters. Everybody comes off as attention seeking, uncooperative jerks. I have the unfortunate ability to see both sides and I feel like both sides are right and wrong. If the officer is concerned for his safety and the safety of others but is acknowledging my right to OC I would probably give him my name. I live in a small area, I would see that officer constantly and future encounters would probably not even result in contact. If I was yelling and being a jerk, I bet I would be hassled every time by every officer. That's my point.
 

Cten85

New member
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
7
Location
West virginia
Just something to mull around....

Police have only one reason for requesting your ID...

It's the first step of building a prosecution against you. The first step in finding reason, with little effort, of removing your freedom or your money. A no-risk fishing expedition. I feel no obligation, morally or legally, in assisting in that effort. None.

A more candid view point......


Rolling over on your back like a cowed dog is not improving the "PR" of open carry in the eyes of the cop intent on manipulating you into forfeiting our rights. It reinforces the behavior that needs to be changed.

I have trained horses and dogs most of my life. It's frustrating when someone enters the picture and un-does all the efforts put into correcting a behavior problem. Firm, consistent discipline is required to break a dog of jumping on people, for example. It can change having an animal you resent and distrust into having a useful trusted companion. It all hinges on the discipline you apply, and when. I don't tolerate a dog jumping on me. One of the main reasons why dogs will jump up on people is a way of dominating. They want to show that they are the tough one and by acting aggressive and even plaRyful they can achieve what they want, which is dominance. When a dog jumps on a human of its own free will, it is not "greeting" the human, it is asserting its dominance over the human; it is the dog communicating that it is alpha and/or wishes to own/control the human. A subordinate would never dream of running over and jumping on the alpha dog of the pack. Space is respect and lower members of the pack respect the higher members. If your dog jumps on humans, it does not respect them. Dogs like and need consistency, so if you are not allowing your dog to jump on you, everyone in the family and everyone who greets the dog must do the same. It will only confuse a dog if you allow them to jump on some people who say they do not mind, and tell him not to jump on others. Having a confused, aggressive dog around is not safe or comforting. While the dog is viewed as the problem, the truth is the responsibility lies on who allowed the behavior to build to the point it becomes a problem.

No small amount of effort, trial, error, disappointment and triumph goes into training a dog. I hope you don't find it unreasonable if I ask that you don't undo all that by using the same firm and consistent discipline we use.

At least consider this: You're setting someone else up to be jumped on by ignoring this basic handling information. Nobody deserves that, and you're instilling confusion in the beast that will require some harsh discipline to correct.


I also train dogs.. That is reaching far....
So you think that getting into a yelling match on the sidewalk with an officer is better for our cause and good PR? I think that if they are CALLED to you, it's better to let them see that you are a law abiding citizen who inderstands where he is coming from. IF he is showing you the same respect. I didnt say give him your ID to go back to the car. I simply mean tell him who you are
 

Fuller Malarkey

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
1,020
Location
The Cadre
I also train dogs.. That is reaching far....
So you think that getting into a yelling match on the sidewalk with an officer is better for our cause and good PR? I think that if they are CALLED to you, it's better to let them see that you are a law abiding citizen who inderstands where he is coming from. IF he is showing you the same respect. I didnt say give him your ID to go back to the car. I simply mean tell him who you are

I never once, here or elsewhere, endorsed or suggested I or anyone else get into a yelling match with anyone, especially a police officer. They have guns, limited accountability and recent widespread history of aggressive responses. I strongly advise against this kind of response. I don't engage in an angry, hysterical manner to maintain control of a dog, either. Self discipline in the trainer is critical to the desired outcome.

We each have our means of training. We subscribe to the assertive, consistent school of discipline. You'll get a more predictable response from your subject. Nobody wants an unpredictable response from a party with fangs. Or a gun.
 
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Cten85

New member
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
7
Location
West virginia
I never once, here or elsewhere, endorsed or suggested I or anyone else get into a yelling match with anyone, especially a police officer. They have guns, limited accountability and recent widespread history of aggressive responses. I strongly advise against this kind of response. I don't engage in an angry, hysterical manner to maintain control of a dog, either. Self discipline in the trainer is critical to the desired outcome.

We each have our means of training. We subscribe to the assertive, consistent school of discipline. You'll get a more predictable response from your subject. Nobody wants an unpredictable response from a party with fangs. Or a gun.


I subscribe to the same methods and have 2 awesome dogs

If you can get through the encounter without yelling AM I BEING DETAINED etc.. Like the people I am watching, then that's great and I support you because you ARE right. But to reference you interest.. Sometimes you have to give a little to get good long term results. I just feel like cooperating with a man who is just doing his extremely dangerous job will lead to a friendly wave hello next time he sees you and you will have his respect. If he leaves you as an irate John doe with a gun.. Well you will be a target of more scrutiny by every officer he talks to about it.
 
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