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Thread: Guns a necessary but not sufficient condition for freedom

  1. #1
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Guns a necessary but not sufficient condition for freedom

    http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/07/11...-defies-logic/

    After reading widely and traveling abroad, I noticed that "land of the free home of the brave" is false. Grading on a big curve, the RKABA is indeed very good in most places in the U.S. Political free speech is also good in America, but also irrelevant. Information is carefully controlled via the state/media complex and people will not question the information they receive, comfortable with simple explanations and myths.

    Will Americans be the first armed population to be mass murdered by "their" government?

    I think so.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Fear-mongerring knows no bounds. Don't get me wrong, I respect, but disagree with your pessimism.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  3. #3
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Too bad that version of the story overlooks the fact that the guy built a church in his back yard... But the truth rarely sells newspapers.



    The Phoenix prosecutor’s office said the violations were not about religious freedom, but about zoning and proper permitting. A lot of the dispute is whether a building in Salman’s backyard is a church or not. City says yes, Salman says no.

    Salman has fought the battle in court but has been ruled against many times, most recently in 2010 where the court stated that the state is not prohibiting him from running a church or worship services at the location, but rather the state just requires Salman to abide by proper fire and zoning codes.
    http://www.examiner.com/article/past...-bible-studies

    The guy's own words @ 2:18.
    "...built an accessory building in our backyard... we decorated the inside of the building for religious worship..."

    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 07-11-2012 at 12:19 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    Too bad that version of the story overlooks the fact that the guy built a church in his back yard... But the truth rarely sells newspapers.



    That certainly changes his situation then. Well, I could have posted thousands of other stories to illustrate the point. I just read, not even looking for it, that amish farmers were being swat teamed for selling raw milk on the side of the road. Last time I was in Italy, I saw raw milk vending machines, lol.
    This country is screwed, and unless people wake up, we're going to the camps. And we'll have guns on our hips until the very end.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    That certainly changes his situation then. Well, I could have posted thousands of other stories to illustrate the point. I just read, not even looking for it, that amish farmers were being swat teamed for selling raw milk on the side of the road. Last time I was in Italy, I saw raw milk vending machines, lol.
    This country is screwed, and unless people wake up, we're going to the camps. And we'll have guns on our hips until the very end.
    Okay, now you touched on the Granola Seattlite in me. Raw Milk ought to be sold. Raw milk is healthier. Pasturized milk weakens the body's natural defenses against bugs.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Arizona author Edward Abbey
    "If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government --and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws."

  7. #7
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott58dh View Post
    Arizona author Edward Abbey
    "If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government --and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws."
    Since the Government is likely documenting everything we post: I have no Firearms. And, I am an easy target.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  8. #8
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Since the Government is likely documenting everything we post: I have no Firearms. And, I am an easy target.

    I think that MANY members of OCDO fall into your category. Many of us have lost all our firearms in "unfortunate boating accidents", or had them washed away in recent hurricanes or floods.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    I think that MANY members of OCDO fall into your category. Many of us have lost all our firearms in "unfortunate boating accidents", or had them washed away in recent hurricanes or floods.
    ,,,,now where on Earth did I put my AMMO ?!?!?

  10. #10
    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/07/11...-defies-logic/

    After reading widely and traveling abroad, I noticed that "land of the free home of the brave" is false. Grading on a big curve, the RKABA is indeed very good in most places in the U.S. Political free speech is also good in America, but also irrelevant. Information is carefully controlled via the state/media complex and people will not question the information they receive, comfortable with simple explanations and myths.

    Will Americans be the first armed population to be mass murdered by "their" government?

    I think so.
    Guns are not a "condition", but rather a tool. The "condition" is the desire of humans to be "free" and remain free. However, when we choose to live within the constructs of a social order, we necessarily give up some of what may be considered personal freedoms. The strength of one's desire for freedom must be accompanied by the courage to take up whatever tools are at hand to maintain those freedoms with which we are endowed. Some believe this endowment of freedom comes from a supreme being, some believe that freedom is a state of mind, others think it is inborn, and yet others on this Earth have no concept of freedom, never having experienced it. Many of the German Jews kept their spirits up in Nazi prison camps during WWII by singing an old (early 1800's) German song - Die Gedanken Sind Frei (My Thoughts Are Free) - as the only physical freedoms they had were the choice to attempt escape or be murdered by their captors... or both. However, they refused to allow the Nazis to extinguish their spirits as easily as they extinguished their lives. Basically, they were thumbing their collective noses at the Nazis by musically declaring, "You can take my property, my freedom and my life, but you cannot take my thoughts, my pride or my dignity." I do not envision a day when the U.S. military forces would (again) take arms against their people, assuming they understood and remembered the oath they swore upon entering the service... but, I could be wrong. Just my thoughts. Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 07-12-2012 at 01:16 PM. Reason: typo
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  11. #11
    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Fear-mongerring knows no bounds. Don't get me wrong, I respect, but disagree with your pessimism.
    I disagree also.

    I am also disagreeing with your comment about your Avatar. I am a pure Independent and I purely despise what that face represents.

    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

    Politicians should serve two terms, one in office and one in prison.(borrowed from RioKid)

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