The Big Guy
Regular Member
I know that this applies to several threads on here but I thought it might deserve its own space. What you will see below is my correspondence with Don Turn of NVFAC regarding this subject. You will see what started it followed by our back and forth comments. I'm sure there will be other opinions, great, but let's keep it civil please.
TBG
You know it doesn’t matter what a government official thinks is right or wrong. They can only do what they have lawful authority to do. From my review of statutes they have two options. Post it to no concealed carry, or specifically enumerate prohibited activities under the state trespass law. Besides that, everything else is unlawful.
Don
Don
I think they would have a tough row to hoe by trying to use trespass against someone conducting lawful business in a publically owned building. There are some places trying to do that. I understand that Metro, NHP and Nye County Sheriff are all going that route. I don’t see it holding up but most likely will have to eventually go through the system. So far all they do is endlessly threaten with no arrest that I know of.
Tim
Tim, it is not hard at all. A written demand is a sign, stating what behavior is prohibited within the building or property.
If they signed it “no firearms” and cited NRS 207.200 then trespass within building or property would be in violation of the law. I was a State Peace Officer in AZ for 30 years and even though NV laws are some what different. We used the trespass statutes all the time to gain compliance. However, I’m not about to tell any officer in NV how to do their job, especially about firearms, just saying….
They are using a very liberal interpretation of the CCW statute, which is incorrect.
Don
NRS 207.200 Unlawful trespass upon land; warning against trespassing.
1. Unless a greater penalty is provided pursuant to NRS 200.603, any person who, under circumstances not amounting to a burglary:
(a) Goes upon the land or into any building of another with intent to vex or annoy the owner or occupant thereof, or to commit any unlawful act; or
(b) Willfully goes or remains upon any land or in any building after having been warned by the owner or occupant thereof not to trespass,
Ê is guilty of a misdemeanor. The meaning of this subsection is not limited by subsections 2 and 4.
2. A sufficient warning against trespassing, within the meaning of this section, is given by any of the following methods:
(a) If the land is used for agricultural purposes or for herding or grazing livestock, by painting with fluorescent orange paint:
(1) Not less than 50 square inches of the exterior portion of a structure or natural object or the top 12 inches of the exterior portion of a post, whether made of wood, metal or other material, at:
(I) Intervals of such a distance as is necessary to ensure that at least one such structure, natural object or post would be within the direct line of sight of a person standing next to another such structure, natural object or post, but at intervals of not more than 1,000 feet; and
(II) Each corner of the land, upon or near the boundary; and
(2) Each side of all gates, cattle guards and openings that are designed to allow human ingress to the area;
(b) If the land is not used in the manner specified in paragraph (a), by painting with fluorescent orange paint not less than 50 square inches of the exterior portion of a structure or natural object or the top 12 inches of the exterior portion of a post, whether made of wood, metal or other material, at:
(1) Intervals of such a distance as is necessary to ensure that at least one such structure, natural object or post would be within the direct line of sight of a person standing next to another such structure, natural object or post, but at intervals of not more than 200 feet; and
(2) Each corner of the land, upon or near the boundary;
(c) Fencing the area; or
(d) By the owner or occupant of the land or building making an oral or written demand to any guest to vacate the land or building.
3. It is prima facie evidence of trespass for any person to be found on private or public property which is posted or fenced as provided in subsection 2 without lawful business with the owner or occupant of the property.
4. An entryman on land under the laws of the United States is an owner within the meaning of this section.
5. As used in this section:
(a) “Fence” means a barrier sufficient to indicate an intent to restrict the area to human ingress, including, but not limited to, a wall, hedge or chain link or wire mesh fence. The term does not include a barrier made of barbed wire.
(b) “Guest” means any person entertained or to whom hospitality is extended, including, but not limited to, any person who stays overnight. The term does not include a tenant as defined in NRS 118A.170.
[1911 C&P § 500; RL § 6765; NCL § 10447]—(NRS A 1969, 96; 1975, 1169; 1987, 2086; 1989, 997; 2005, 930; 2007, 981; 2009, 141)
Don
NRS 207.200 does not apply. a) Goes upon the land or into any building of another with intent to vex or annoy the owner or occupant thereof, or to commit any unlawful act. First, it is public property of which I as a citizen am an owner, Secondly, the intent is not to “vex or annoy the owner or occupant” which are the citizens of the jurisdiction, but to conduct lawful business. You can’t be trespassed when you are conducting legitimate business on public property. Firearms are specifically protected by Nevada statute which says that only the legislature may make rules/laws governing them. Openly carried a person can’t be barred entry.
Signs prohibiting firearms, excepting 202.3673 concerning concealed firearms, have no force in law in Nevada. The statutes you point to are general “keep the hell out of here” signs. 3. It is prima facie evidence of trespass for any person to be found on private or public property which is posted or fenced as provided in subsection 2 without lawful business with the owner or occupant of the property.“Without lawful business with the owner of occupant of the property.” That says it all.
Tim
TBG
You know it doesn’t matter what a government official thinks is right or wrong. They can only do what they have lawful authority to do. From my review of statutes they have two options. Post it to no concealed carry, or specifically enumerate prohibited activities under the state trespass law. Besides that, everything else is unlawful.
Don
Don
I think they would have a tough row to hoe by trying to use trespass against someone conducting lawful business in a publically owned building. There are some places trying to do that. I understand that Metro, NHP and Nye County Sheriff are all going that route. I don’t see it holding up but most likely will have to eventually go through the system. So far all they do is endlessly threaten with no arrest that I know of.
Tim
Tim, it is not hard at all. A written demand is a sign, stating what behavior is prohibited within the building or property.
If they signed it “no firearms” and cited NRS 207.200 then trespass within building or property would be in violation of the law. I was a State Peace Officer in AZ for 30 years and even though NV laws are some what different. We used the trespass statutes all the time to gain compliance. However, I’m not about to tell any officer in NV how to do their job, especially about firearms, just saying….
They are using a very liberal interpretation of the CCW statute, which is incorrect.
Don
NRS 207.200 Unlawful trespass upon land; warning against trespassing.
1. Unless a greater penalty is provided pursuant to NRS 200.603, any person who, under circumstances not amounting to a burglary:
(a) Goes upon the land or into any building of another with intent to vex or annoy the owner or occupant thereof, or to commit any unlawful act; or
(b) Willfully goes or remains upon any land or in any building after having been warned by the owner or occupant thereof not to trespass,
Ê is guilty of a misdemeanor. The meaning of this subsection is not limited by subsections 2 and 4.
2. A sufficient warning against trespassing, within the meaning of this section, is given by any of the following methods:
(a) If the land is used for agricultural purposes or for herding or grazing livestock, by painting with fluorescent orange paint:
(1) Not less than 50 square inches of the exterior portion of a structure or natural object or the top 12 inches of the exterior portion of a post, whether made of wood, metal or other material, at:
(I) Intervals of such a distance as is necessary to ensure that at least one such structure, natural object or post would be within the direct line of sight of a person standing next to another such structure, natural object or post, but at intervals of not more than 1,000 feet; and
(II) Each corner of the land, upon or near the boundary; and
(2) Each side of all gates, cattle guards and openings that are designed to allow human ingress to the area;
(b) If the land is not used in the manner specified in paragraph (a), by painting with fluorescent orange paint not less than 50 square inches of the exterior portion of a structure or natural object or the top 12 inches of the exterior portion of a post, whether made of wood, metal or other material, at:
(1) Intervals of such a distance as is necessary to ensure that at least one such structure, natural object or post would be within the direct line of sight of a person standing next to another such structure, natural object or post, but at intervals of not more than 200 feet; and
(2) Each corner of the land, upon or near the boundary;
(c) Fencing the area; or
(d) By the owner or occupant of the land or building making an oral or written demand to any guest to vacate the land or building.
3. It is prima facie evidence of trespass for any person to be found on private or public property which is posted or fenced as provided in subsection 2 without lawful business with the owner or occupant of the property.
4. An entryman on land under the laws of the United States is an owner within the meaning of this section.
5. As used in this section:
(a) “Fence” means a barrier sufficient to indicate an intent to restrict the area to human ingress, including, but not limited to, a wall, hedge or chain link or wire mesh fence. The term does not include a barrier made of barbed wire.
(b) “Guest” means any person entertained or to whom hospitality is extended, including, but not limited to, any person who stays overnight. The term does not include a tenant as defined in NRS 118A.170.
[1911 C&P § 500; RL § 6765; NCL § 10447]—(NRS A 1969, 96; 1975, 1169; 1987, 2086; 1989, 997; 2005, 930; 2007, 981; 2009, 141)
Don
NRS 207.200 does not apply. a) Goes upon the land or into any building of another with intent to vex or annoy the owner or occupant thereof, or to commit any unlawful act. First, it is public property of which I as a citizen am an owner, Secondly, the intent is not to “vex or annoy the owner or occupant” which are the citizens of the jurisdiction, but to conduct lawful business. You can’t be trespassed when you are conducting legitimate business on public property. Firearms are specifically protected by Nevada statute which says that only the legislature may make rules/laws governing them. Openly carried a person can’t be barred entry.
Signs prohibiting firearms, excepting 202.3673 concerning concealed firearms, have no force in law in Nevada. The statutes you point to are general “keep the hell out of here” signs. 3. It is prima facie evidence of trespass for any person to be found on private or public property which is posted or fenced as provided in subsection 2 without lawful business with the owner or occupant of the property.“Without lawful business with the owner of occupant of the property.” That says it all.
Tim
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