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Thread: OC experiences in Fredericksburg area

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    Thumbs up OC experiences in Fredericksburg area

    I have just recently begun to OC my 1911 (in a serpa holster) just about everywhere I go, in and around the Fredericksburg area, specifically in Spotsylvania county, where I live. At first i didn't think i would carry open, but i'm starting to get more comfortable doing it, and i now see it as necessary. I have to tell you, in just the past few weeks the experiences i've had in this area so far have been close to ideal. I'm Proud to be an American, and a Virginian. I know not everywhere is like this so I must give credit to the county of spotsylvania, so far so good!

    About a week or so ago I was headed out to the DMV to renew my vehicle registration. I stopped by a Wawa gas station for a sammich and drink. I noticed when i pulled up a deputy sitting in a marked suv, as I walked in to the store i noticed he was behind, i'm not sure but i don't think he was actively following me, i think (though i could be wrong) he just happened to get out at the same time. I casually held the door open for him, and went into the store, grabbed my items and got in line. the officer ended up behind me in line again which i thought might have been odd, but he had a coffee in his hand so i didn't assume he was following me. I paid for my items and left the store. The officer never said a word to me, after obviously noticing my firearm, isn't that the way it should be??

    Then i went to the DMV, it was funny because as I walked in the security guard there had walked in right behind me, (though i doubt he saw my gun because he was on the other side of me) I stood in line for a minute then he walked up to me and asked me what i had. I told him it was a 1911. he then asked me how many rounds i had. I thought that was kinda odd, but i decided to tell him any way. We started politely chatting about guns and laws etc he seems interested (and not educated very well on gun laws etc.) and stood with me until i go to the information counter. The lady there was friendly, and the security guard told her "you see what he has there?" she said "what?" she hadn't noticed my gun. he said "he's got a gun there" she said "oh, so?" i almost laughed out loud haha. he then said that i alright and that he trusts me, but he was told he had to let management know i had a gun. the security guard and I talked for a few more minutes after that and i told him about OCDO, he was a nice guy. he then told me (jokingly) that he asked me how many rounds i had so if i had starting shooting he would know when i was out haha again he was a nice guy but a little ignorant, i suppose the security firm doesn't provide much training before put someone in charge of safe-keeping the dmv, not saying it would be better, but i wonder why a sworn police officer isn't posted there instead of a rent-a-cop, but i digress.

    lastly, just the other day i was pulled over in my vehicle while open carrying. (my license plates are expired, i couldn't get them renewed when i went to the dmv before). the officer got out of his car quickly i only had time to put my car in park and roll down the window. I kept my hands on the steering wheel. he approached and asked if i knew why he pulled me over i said yes, i knew my plates were expired etc. he said ok, and asked for my license and registration. I then said "officer i just want to let you know I-" then he cut me off and said "you have a gun in your glove box?" i said "no, its here on my person" (never took my hands off the steering wheel). he said that "thats fine, do you have your drivers license?" i said "I do, but its in my back-right pocket, I don't want to reach for it" he said "ok, thats fine, dont worry about it, i'm not going to give you a ticket anyway" he went back to his car for a minute came back and told me i was good to go and to drive safe. What an awesome experience!! Didn't even care that I had a gun, and he didn't even look at my license. i should've got his name i'd like to report a compliment, i suppose i could FOIA the stop though. my question though is i dont have my CHP yet just put in the application like 2 days before that would that show up in his system already? i know it shows if you have a CHP, but i just put my app in he had to have known because he cut me off and asked if i had a gun?

    anyway sorry if this is boring, or if its not in the right place, but i really felt i had to share my positive experiences after reading so many horrifying ones in other places. So far so good Spotsy county!!

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Glad to hear it went well. That's what you can expect 97% of the time.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twpetry View Post
    i said "I do, but its in my back-right pocket, I don't want to reach for it"
    Just an FYI, but if you carry your gun on your right side, your wallet should be in your left back pocket.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Just an FYI, but if you carry your gun on your right side, your wallet should be in your left back pocket.
    Yep, wallet and extra mags balance out the 1911 - that way I don't tip over.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member altajava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Just an FYI, but if you carry your gun on your right side, your wallet should be in your left back pocket.
    What do you suggest for someone who only has one arm?

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by altajava View Post
    What do you suggest for someone who only has one arm?
    Put the wallet in the front right pocket.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
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    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Put the wallet in the front right pocket.
    If they are left handed?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    If they are left handed?
    What if they're left handed, but only have a right arm?

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    your wallet should be in your left back pocket.
    Your Chiropractor probably loves you and the folks you refer to him.
    Experts say men who sit down with their wallets in their back trouser pocket risk damaging key nerves.


    My left front pocket is full and my pocket knife resides in my right front, heck I need more pockets...
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Your Chiropractor probably loves you and the folks you refer to him.
    Experts say men who sit down with their wallets in their back trouser pocket risk damaging key nerves.
    I've heard that too, so my wallet is carried in a front pocket. Driving for long periods of time you don't want the discomfort of a wallet on one side of your rear end either.

    However, that wasn't the reason I started to carry it in my front pocket. Up until the late 80s/early 90s the main spectator viewing facilities at football (soccer to you lot ) stadiums in England (which, as many of you know, is the country I grew up in) were standing areas. You could be packed in tight for the big games and teams of pickpockets were rumoured to be working many of the stadiums. I always just figured it would be more difficult for them to remove something from a deeper internal style front pocket than an external type back one.

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    Great post...thanks for sharing! I love being in Fredericksburg and have yet to have a negative encounter from any police.

    Coincidentally, I was recently pulled over for speeding (Wasn't really paying attention and got caught doing 44 in a 35). Anyways, pulled over and handed the cop my license, registration and conceal carry permit. My gun was on my right hip but I've figured that I might as well inform the police officer because they're going to see my permit when they run my plates anyways and it will alieviate any possible issues about "why didn't you inform me before?"

    Long story short, cop came back and thanked me for being upfront and honest during the stop and that I was being let off with a warning.

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    Regular Member altajava's Avatar
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    It may not be obvious but it was a serious question as I don't curantly have full use of both arms. Sorry for the thread derail.

    ETA
    I did almost need a new keyboard though.
    Last edited by altajava; 07-11-2012 at 11:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by altajava View Post
    It may not be obvious but it was a serious question as I don't curantly have full use of both arms. Sorry for the thread derail.

    ETA
    I did almost need a new keyboard though.
    Actually...it was obvious which is why I duct taped both feet to the floor. I'm famous for sticking one or both of them in my mouth.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brlong23 View Post
    Great post...thanks for sharing! I love being in Fredericksburg and have yet to have a negative encounter from any police.

    Coincidentally, I was recently pulled over for speeding (Wasn't really paying attention and got caught doing 44 in a 35). Anyways, pulled over and handed the cop my license, registration and conceal carry permit. My gun was on my right hip but I've figured that I might as well inform the police officer because they're going to see my permit when they run my plates anyways and it will alieviate any possible issues about "why didn't you inform me before?"

    Long story short, cop came back and thanked me for being upfront and honest during the stop and that I was being let off with a warning.
    Just curious, City, Spotsy or Stafford?

    TFred

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    First off - you did well in all your encounters. Nothing that follows should be considered as negative criticism - I'm just sharing some observations and viewpoints.

    Quote Originally Posted by twpetry View Post
    .... The officer never said a word to me, after obviously noticing my firearm, isn't that the way it should be??
    Even if he noticed your safely holstered 1911 as soon as you got out of your car, this is the way it should be. Unless yours is a very pretty one, so long as you are not doing anything to endanger yourself or others "there's nothing to see here, folks. Move along."

    Then i went to the DMV, .... I stood in line for a minute then he walked up to me and asked me what i had. I told him it was a 1911. he then asked me how many rounds i had. I thought that was kinda odd, but i decided to tell him any way. We started politely chatting about guns and laws etc he seems interested (and not educated very well on gun laws etc.)
    Comments about his question later. Just an observation that he was there to enforce law and policy yet was lacking in basic knowledge of the very laws he was supposed to enforce. ::head-desk::

    and stood with me until i go to the information counter.
    Alarm bells ought to be going off here. Any rent-a-cop (or real cop for that matter) who feels the burning desire to "stand with me" is making a clear statement that they are expecting trouble and believe I will be the cause of it. He had a whole office to protect and he chose to monitor possibly the most law-abiding person there?

    The lady there was friendly, and the security guard told her "you see what he has there?" she said "what?" she hadn't noticed my gun. he said "he's got a gun there"
    DANGER, WILL ROBINSON! DANGER! WTF is he doing telling the employee you are armed? That is a great way to induce fear/panic when there was no provocation on your part. No matter how "matter-of-fact" or conversational his tone when saying that, he has no business warning (yes, that's what he was doing) her that you were armed - unless he felt a need to put her on alert.

    This, like the question about how many rounds you carried, is not only intrusive and unwarranted, but indicates a distrust based on nothing more than the mere presence of the handgun - in other words, he is focusing on the object instead of the behavior.

    ... he was told he had to let management know i had a gun.
    Will you please send a FOIA request to the DMV office manager to get a copy of the written policy or post order regarding that? If nothing else it is discrimination against OCers - I'm pretty sure there are folks who CC to the DMV but apparently there is no requirement that management be notified about te presence of their handguns.

    the security guard and I talked for a few more minutes after that and i told him about OCDO, he was a nice guy. he then told me (jokingly) that he asked me how many rounds i had so if i had starting shooting he would know when i was out haha
    At first I thought he had been inquiring about how many rounds your 1911 held in the magazine. Some are 7+1, some are 8+1, and I've seen 10+1. This "knowing when I woud be out" is another indication of how much he distrusts someone who has exhibited no unlawful or otherwise inappropriate behavior. The focus is on the object, not on what the person is doing. I truely fear such people because they are more likely to do something in knee-jerk response to the mere presence of the object.

    again he was a nice guy but a little ignorant, i suppose the security firm doesn't provide much training before put someone in charge of safe-keeping the dmv, not saying it would be better, but i wonder why a sworn police officer isn't posted there instead of a rent-a-cop, but i digress.
    Training for rent-a-cops (full disclosure: I was one for over 5 years) varies widely, although most get little beyond the DCJS-mandated necessary to qualify for certification. Post orders are usually in a notebook somewhere and little if any training is provided beyond "read this and do what it says". Most of the "why" behind what they do is suggestions or requests from the head person at the site - and that usually violates the terms of the contract. But if you annoy the customer you are likely to either be reassigned to a less-desirable post/site or terminated.

    There is an on-going debate as to just what powers of arrest (other than citizen's arrest) security officers have. They are also not allowed to do anything (like use handcuffs or OC) they are not certified for and many of them do not seek certification unless their employer pays for it. As for why DMV uses rent-a-cops instead of sworn officers? Follow the money! Plus, do you really want to expand the number of sworn officers DMV already has? Next thing you know they will be wanting their own SWAT team, just like the Department of Education.

    BTW, all this is not paranoia. It's just experience and the ability to recognize how rights can be bumped by subtle means as opposed to being trampled by obvious JBT behavior. I do not want to give them the first inch and I have no desire to store camels in my tent.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    The lady there was friendly, and the security guard told her "you see what he has there?" she said "what?" she hadn't noticed my gun. he said "he's got a gun there"
    I wonder if the security guard could be convicted of brandishing... the poster's gun!?

    TFred

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Yep, wallet and extra mags balance out the 1911 - that way I don't tip over.
    You must have a lot more in your wallet than I do.

  18. #18
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Yep, wallet and extra mags balance out the 1911 - that way I don't tip over.
    Quote Originally Posted by zoom6zoom View Post
    You must have a lot more in your wallet than I do.
    You've obviously never seen Grapeshot in person....

    Remember, there are two sides to every equation!

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 07-12-2012 at 02:27 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Yep, wallet and extra mags balance out the 1911 - that way I don't tip over.
    Quote Originally Posted by zoom6zoom View Post
    You must have a lot more in your wallet than I do.
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    You've obviously never seen Grapeshot in person....

    Remember, there are two sides to every equation!

    TFred
    Two magazines, wallet, cell phone, recorder and knife on less dominate side = alloy 1911 w/HP

    In windy weather I switch to steel frame and ball ammo.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Just curious, City, Spotsy or Stafford?

    TFred
    Fredericksburg City Cop

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Your Chiropractor probably loves you and the folks you refer to him.
    Experts say men who sit down with their wallets in their back trouser pocket risk damaging key nerves.


    My left front pocket is full and my pocket knife resides in my right front, heck I need more pockets...
    This is why I never drive with a wallet in my pocket. It sits in one of my cup holders or my map pocket. A wallet can traumatize the sciatic nerve, especially when pushed up against a bucket seat side bolster.

    As for pockets in which to carry a wallet, I shift mine depending upon the surroundings. If I am in a crowd, waiting in a line, or have on loose fitting clothes (think shorts for example), I frequently put my walled in a front pocket. Better control against theft.
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; 07-13-2012 at 09:00 AM.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    First off - you did well in all your encounters. Nothing that follows should be considered as negative criticism - I'm just sharing some observations and viewpoints.



    Even if he noticed your safely holstered 1911 as soon as you got out of your car, this is the way it should be. Unless yours is a very pretty one, so long as you are not doing anything to endanger yourself or others "there's nothing to see here, folks. Move along."



    Comments about his question later. Just an observation that he was there to enforce law and policy yet was lacking in basic knowledge of the very laws he was supposed to enforce. ::head-desk::



    Alarm bells ought to be going off here. Any rent-a-cop (or real cop for that matter) who feels the burning desire to "stand with me" is making a clear statement that they are expecting trouble and believe I will be the cause of it. He had a whole office to protect and he chose to monitor possibly the most law-abiding person there?



    DANGER, WILL ROBINSON! DANGER! WTF is he doing telling the employee you are armed? That is a great way to induce fear/panic when there was no provocation on your part. No matter how "matter-of-fact" or conversational his tone when saying that, he has no business warning (yes, that's what he was doing) her that you were armed - unless he felt a need to put her on alert.

    This, like the question about how many rounds you carried, is not only intrusive and unwarranted, but indicates a distrust based on nothing more than the mere presence of the handgun - in other words, he is focusing on the object instead of the behavior.



    Will you please send a FOIA request to the DMV office manager to get a copy of the written policy or post order regarding that? If nothing else it is discrimination against OCers - I'm pretty sure there are folks who CC to the DMV but apparently there is no requirement that management be notified about te presence of their handguns.



    At first I thought he had been inquiring about how many rounds your 1911 held in the magazine. Some are 7+1, some are 8+1, and I've seen 10+1. This "knowing when I woud be out" is another indication of how much he distrusts someone who has exhibited no unlawful or otherwise inappropriate behavior. The focus is on the object, not on what the person is doing. I truely fear such people because they are more likely to do something in knee-jerk response to the mere presence of the object.



    Training for rent-a-cops (full disclosure: I was one for over 5 years) varies widely, although most get little beyond the DCJS-mandated necessary to qualify for certification. Post orders are usually in a notebook somewhere and little if any training is provided beyond "read this and do what it says". Most of the "why" behind what they do is suggestions or requests from the head person at the site - and that usually violates the terms of the contract. But if you annoy the customer you are likely to either be reassigned to a less-desirable post/site or terminated.

    There is an on-going debate as to just what powers of arrest (other than citizen's arrest) security officers have. They are also not allowed to do anything (like use handcuffs or OC) they are not certified for and many of them do not seek certification unless their employer pays for it. As for why DMV uses rent-a-cops instead of sworn officers? Follow the money! Plus, do you really want to expand the number of sworn officers DMV already has? Next thing you know they will be wanting their own SWAT team, just like the Department of Education.

    BTW, all this is not paranoia. It's just experience and the ability to recognize how rights can be bumped by subtle means as opposed to being trampled by obvious JBT behavior. I do not want to give them the first inch and I have no desire to store camels in my tent.

    stay safe.
    Excellent comments, all. Well written and well stated... and well advised for all to take heed.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  23. #23
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I wonder if the security guard could be convicted of brandishing... the poster's gun!?

    TFred
    Did he point a finger??? Oh wait.. This is not Surry.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  24. #24
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    This is why I never drive with a wallet in my pocket. It sits in one of my cup holders or my map pocket. A wallet can traumatize the sciatic nerve, especially when pushed up against a bucket seat side bolster.

    As for pockets in which to carry a wallet, I shift mine depending upon the surroundings. If I am in a crowd, waiting in a line, or have on loose fitting clothes (think shorts for example), I frequently put my walled in a front pocket. Better control against theft.
    One of the many reasons that I really like cargo/tactical pants - so many more secure locations/pockets to put things.
    Some are quite upscale/dressy with seam hidden zippers.

    Have scored 3 pr of brand new 5.11 at $15.ea. or less recently.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    This is why I never drive with a wallet in my pocket. It sits in one of my cup holders or my map pocket. A wallet can traumatize the sciatic nerve, especially when pushed up against a bucket seat side bolster.

    As for pockets in which to carry a wallet, I shift mine depending upon the surroundings. If I am in a crowd, waiting in a line, or have on loose fitting clothes (think shorts for example), I frequently put my walled in a front pocket. Better control against theft.

    Some day I'll tell the story of the drowned terrorist that left his wallet in his camera bag beside the river....(and his Taser, 1911, several cameras, General Assembly ID, Etc.)
    Last edited by peter nap; 07-13-2012 at 10:31 AM.

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