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Thread: Reminder: Never talk to the police... Especially FEDERAL agents!!

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    Reminder: Never talk to the police... Especially FEDERAL agents!!

    As law abiding citizens, we need to constantly be reminded of how important it is that we never engage in investigatory conversion. That holds true even more so for LAC encountering FEDERAL agents. Please read...

    http://library.findlaw.com/2004/May/11/147945.html

    How to Avoid Going to Jail under 18 U.S.C. Section 1001 for Lying to Government Agents

    Short excerpt...

    "Did you know that it is a crime to tell a lie to the federal government? Even if your lie is oral and not under oath? Even if you have received no warnings of any kind? Even if you are not trying to cheat the government out of money? Even if the government is not actually misled by your falsehood? Well it is."

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Just ask Martha Stewart, found innocent of what was accused but spent 6 months for lying about the crime she didn't commit.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Bottom line is, to paraphrase an old advertisement, "Let your lawyer do the talking."

    The federal law is entirely too broad and needs to be changed. Under the present statute, you can make a statement about something that happened, honestly believe that is the truth, and still be indicted when the government finds that it is not.

    George Orwell would be so pleased that his predictions turned out to be so close to the truth.
    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I don't talk to G-Men....ever.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member gunns's Avatar
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    Me only speakie Klingon

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    Regular Member O2HeN2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunns View Post
    Me only speakie Klingon
    jIH neH jatlh tlhIngan

    You're welcome!

    O2

    Ps. No, I'm not a rabid fan, I just read your statement and thought "Some nerd out there HAS to have an online translator!" A quick Google later and voila!
    When seconds count, the police are mere minutes away...
    They'll never take your "hunting rifle", they'll call it a "sniper rifle" first.
    Zero failures comes at infinite cost.

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Funny this should pop up now. I am currently waiting for a call from an FBI investigator. I am a reference for an NG soldier who is being processed for a security clearance. I've never done anything like this before.

    I have no intention of lying, and the soldier has not coached me on any issues, yet I wonder if a question may come up that might cause me to give a "soft/gray" answer.

    Would I then be subject to prosecution if my answer is found to be anything other than the naked truth? Is there a proper way to decline to answer a particular question? Am I worrying too much?
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post

    Would I then be subject to prosecution if my answer is found to be anything other than the naked truth? Is there a proper way to decline to answer a particular question? Am I worrying too much?
    yes you could be arrested ... of course your non-cooperation will result in your friend not getting their clearance, maybe

    these are considerations to look at BEFORE you accepted your friend's request...if he did not ask you then you are free to decline to answer any questions without immunity from GOV'T criminal arrest.

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    Regular Member pfries's Avatar
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    You are over thinking it; remember there still are phrases that leave the door open.
    "To the best of my knowledge" "in my opinion" "as best I can recall"
    A large part of what they are after is opinions on the individuals’ character.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Funny this should pop up now. I am currently waiting for a call from an FBI investigator. I am a reference for an NG soldier who is being processed for a security clearance. I've never done anything like this before.

    I have no intention of lying, and the soldier has not coached me on any issues, yet I wonder if a question may come up that might cause me to give a "soft/gray" answer.

    Would I then be subject to prosecution if my answer is found to be anything other than the naked truth? Is there a proper way to decline to answer a particular question? Am I worrying too much?
    Don't worry about it...if you don't know, just say you don't know..if they ask an opinion, state "in my opinion..." they are not going to ask you specifics, don't give them specifics. I know, when I was getting my BI years ago they even went and interviewed my relatives in Canada and Europe...my parents got calls from them..."is Herman in trouble with the law? The FBI was here and was asking questions"
    Last edited by hermannr; 07-15-2012 at 01:05 AM.

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    Regular Member O2HeN2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    yet I wonder if a question may come up that might cause me to give a "soft/gray" answer.
    Answer everything honestly. To give you a very solid example, a group of shooters, including myself and a good friend of mine who has a security clearance, were arrested leaving leaving a gun range many, many years ago. Long story short, bogus arrest, we sued the sheriff's department for false arrest and won despite having a lousy lawyer, but that's another story.

    I'm always a reference for this guy's security clearance. When they're interviewing me the question is always asked: "Has <blah> ever been arrested?" to which I answer "Yes", then usually "can you give me more details?" And I give the details. Basically they already know he had been arrested. And they knew why, and the details. Not only are they checking out <blah>, but they're evaluating his references as well to see if they're credible. If you bend the truth you won't be helping your friend out at all and they'll discard you as a credible reference.

    O2
    When seconds count, the police are mere minutes away...
    They'll never take your "hunting rifle", they'll call it a "sniper rifle" first.
    Zero failures comes at infinite cost.

  12. #12
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by O2HeN2 View Post
    Answer everything honestly. To give you a very solid example, a group of shooters, including myself and a good friend of mine who has a security clearance, were arrested leaving leaving a gun range many, many years ago. Long story short, bogus arrest, we sued the sheriff's department for false arrest and won despite having a lousy lawyer, but that's another story.

    I'm always a reference for this guy's security clearance. When they're interviewing me the question is always asked: "Has <blah> ever been arrested?" to which I answer "Yes", then usually "can you give me more details?" And I give the details. Basically they already know he had been arrested. And they knew why, and the details. Not only are they checking out <blah>, but they're evaluating his references as well to see if they're credible. If you bend the truth you won't be helping your friend out at all and they'll discard you as a credible reference.

    O2
    G-Man: Has <blah> ever been arrested?
    Me: You are a G-Man and you are asking ME if <blah> has ever been arrested?....GET OFF MY LAWN!!!! F-ing 'nitwit bureaucrat' (redundant) POS!!!!
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  13. #13
    Regular Member Jay Jacobs's Avatar
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc




    I watched this video a few weeks ago, some here may find it interesting. It certainly changed my view on "cooperating" with LEO when being questioned.
    Last edited by Jay Jacobs; 07-16-2012 at 08:47 AM.

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