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Thread: Jay-zís 99 problems, verse 2: A close reading with fourth amendment guidance for cop

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Jay-zís 99 problems, verse 2: A close reading with fourth amendment guidance for cop

    http://slu.edu/Documents/law/Law%20J...on_Article.pdf
    good info for anyone wishing to "flex" his rights
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Regular Member ken243's Avatar
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    Believe it or not I thought about the song the other day with the Combs case.
    Person in Home Depot: "Do you really think you need that?"
    Me: "I hope not. But then again, I didn't need my seatbelt on the way here either."

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Arrow Another look

    http://gawker.com/99-problems/

    It is sad at how far our freedoms have been eroded.

    SNIP:

    And I Heard "Son do you know what I'm stopping you for?"/"Cause I'm young and I'm black and my hat's real low?/Do I look like a mind reader sir, I don't know/Am I under arrest or should I guess some mo?"

    A great question, and an important one for any future suppression claim. As new lawyers learn (to their dismay), there is no constitutional problem with arresting someone for a traffic violation, no matter how minor. And if you are arrested for a traffic violation, your car can be impounded and then searched to inventory its contents, without a warrant and without any level of suspicion that the car contains contraband. Your person, clothing, and bags can also be searched with no required quantum of suspicion. On the other hand, if you are not under arrest, the police need probable cause to search the car. So if the cop tells you you're not under arrest, and then proceeds to search the car, you will be able to suppress any contraband if you can show that there was no probable cause for the search. Here again, documentation will be important.

    "Do you mind if I look around the car a little bit?"/"Well, my glove compartment is locked, so is the trunk and the back,/And I know my rights so you go'n need a warrant for that"

    If this Essay serves no other purpose, I hope it serves to debunk, for any readers who persist in believing it, the myth that locking your trunk will keep the cops from searching it. Based on the number of my students who arrived at law school believing that if you lock your trunk and glove compartment, the police will need a warrant to search them, I surmise that it's even more widespread among the lay public. But it's completely, 100% wrong. There is no warrant requirement for car searches. The Supreme Court has declared unequivocally that because cars are inherently mobile (and are pervasively regulated, and operated in public spaces), it is reasonable under the Fourth Amendment for the police to search the car-the whole car, and everything in the car, including containers-whenever they have probable cause to believe that the car contains evidence of crime.

    You don't have to arrest the person, or impound the vehicle. You just need probable cause to believe that the car contains evidence of crime. So, in any vehicle stop, the officers may search the entire car, without consent, if they develop probable cause to believe that car contains, say, drugs.

    All the action, in short, is about probable cause. Warrants never come into the picture. The fact that the trunk and glove compartments are locked is completely irrelevant. Now, Jay-Z may have just altered the lyrics for dramatic effect, but that would be unfortunate insofar as the song is going to reach many more people than any criminal procedure lecture, and everyone should really know the outline of the law in this area. What the line should say is: "You'll need some p.c. for that." Given that we've established (it appears) that Jay-Z is not under arrest, and given that the Terry frisk of the car is limited to accessible places a weapon could be hidden, the trunk is definitely off limits at this point. What that means is that if the officer opened the trunk by force, without developing articulable probable cause, the contraband found inside would be suppressed.
    ďA government that does not trust itís law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.Ē James Madison.

    ďFirearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.Ē ďThe very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.Ē George Washington

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    hmmm, that's not another look, that's the same look.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    hmmm, that's not another look, that's the same look.
    Another look by a different site. No offense meant. Link gives same info, but with video link etc..
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 07-13-2012 at 11:48 AM.
    ďA government that does not trust itís law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.Ē James Madison.

    ďFirearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.Ē ďThe very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.Ē George Washington

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    no offense taken, i was just surprised that you posted the exact same information.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Isn't funny that Jay-Z teaches more about civics than government indoctrination camps (public schools)?

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    sad. but true.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  9. #9
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    Good read here:

    http://differentbugle.blogspot.com/2...cs-lesson.html

    (also on lewrockwell.com: http://lewrockwell.com/sullivan/sullivan-c11.1.html)

    If anyone were to publish a textbook explaining how government really works, no school system would adopt it. If it did adopt it, it would probably lose its accreditation. In the interest of assisting some would-be writer/publisher I offer the following observations on how the system works.

    The first rule is that the government is not bound by the moral law. It can lie, steal, murder, blackmail, torture (as long as you don't call it torture), imprison, extort or do anything else that seems expedient for achieving its ends.

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