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Arlington fly-in BANS all weapons

skiingislife725

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So I open carried all day yesterday at the Arlington fly in from 9am to 5:30pm. Not a single issue.

This morning I was told by one of the volunteers that it was no weapons allowed. No rules posted at all though, except for a campring policy. So the security guy comes, shows me the camping policy again. And then i talk to the head of the show, who is also the Arlington mayor...she confirms the no weapons policy and cites insurance reasons and that the place is leased so they make the rules. So, i had to leave it UNATTENDED in my truck...because thats safer!
 

Greg30-06

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According to the Arlington airports website it is governed by the city of Arlington, therefor I believe preemption would apply rcw9.41.290
 

Jeff Hayes

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You might want to check to see if it was leased. Most likely the city of Arlington licensed the use of the park. If it is a license to use then the promoter has no property rights they are only allowed to use the park for an event.
 

OlGutshotWilly

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As a technicality, it is not a park. It is a Municipal Airport. The event is run by the Experimental Aircraft Association, which is a private organization.


Lots of serious convective weather over the airspace today.

Edit: Apparently I am wrong. After looking into it more closely, it is owned and operated by an Entity known as "Arlington Fly In". The EAA is a major organizing sponsor. Not sure exactly who Arlington Fly In is yet.
 
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hermannr

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Okanogan Highland
So I open carried all day yesterday at the Arlington fly in from 9am to 5:30pm. Not a single issue.

This morning I was told by one of the volunteers that it was no weapons allowed. No rules posted at all though, except for a campring policy. So the security guy comes, shows me the camping policy again. And then i talk to the head of the show, who is also the Arlington mayor...she confirms the no weapons policy and cites insurance reasons and that the place is leased so they make the rules. So, i had to leave it UNATTENDED in my truck...because thats safer!

I call bull on the mayor...I also say they cannot do that unless you allow them to. State Law says no. BTW: The EAA does not lease the airport for the event.

Insurance problems? You et they have problems if the have insurance problems...because state law says, insurance be d$%$%, local gov entities have to abide by state law. Did you ask miss mayor where the metal detectors and lock boxes were?
 
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deanf

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All the strut and bluster in the world does not change the fact that if it's a lease, the lessee can make their own rules. The question remains unanswered . . .
 

OlGutshotWilly

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My query:

Ms Tolbert,
Who is the private, non-governmental corporation that leases the Arlington Municipal Airport for the Arlington Fly In? I have searched for a corporate structure or entity and can't find one. Only that a "group" or Organization called "Arlington Fly-In" that you are Executive Director of, runs the Fly In.



I know the EAA is a sponsor of the show, but they don't lease the airport from the City.



Info appreciated, thanks!



Cheers,

Her reply:
The entity is the Arlington Fly-In. We lease the land for the five days of the event and five days before and three days after. We have a signed special event lease from the City of Arlington, which is the Airport Authority. We do not lease the entire airport, only the portion on which the Fly-In takes place.

The Arlington Fly-In is a Washington State nonprofit corporation.

Barbara Tolbert
Arlington Fly-In
4700 188[SUP]th[/SUP] Street NE
Arlington, WA 98223
 

Jeff Hayes

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Unless we think Ms. Tolbert is a liar, or we just want to be antagonistic, the point of asking for lease agreements and insurance information is what?

When I had my disagreement with the Spokane Convention Center all of them refereed to the license to use as a lease or rental agreement until I got information that proved the agreement to be a license to use.

I believe that most cities etc do licensees to use rather than rent or lease because they would give up too much control of the facility if it were leased or rented.
 
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BigDave

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If The Arlington Fly In is private and does not work for a governmental agency there is likely no ground to push the issue, which leaves to deal with them as you would any other citizens and hopefully educate but pushing it past them or to make them accept firearms carry I feel you are barking up the wrong tree and instilling a negative approach.
Be it an excuse of "insurance" it really does not matter they are not restricted from allowing firearms, though I wish they would on their own accord.
State Preemption is a prohibition against local governments not private entities or citizens, this would be a time to conceal until asked to leave or they change their mind with reasoning.
 

Boomboy007

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Bellingham, WA, USA
Gotta disagree, BigDave.

They are having a fly-in on MY PROPERTY, me being the taxpayer. Thus, it matters very much whether it was a lease or license to use. If a lease entitles me to bar those who are exercising their second amendment, can I also ban others for otherwise legal behavior?

Private property rights are ONLY for private property.
 

BigDave

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They are having a fly-in on MY PROPERTY, me being the taxpayer. Thus, it matters very much whether it was a lease or license to use. If a lease entitles me to bar those who are exercising their second amendment, can I also ban others for otherwise legal behavior?
Private property rights are ONLY for private property.

Yes go with that argument of "it's my property", good luck.

Yes can one restricted other legal behavior when lease or license these areas as long as it does not violate the Civil Rights.
Legally you can go shirtless of shoeless of if they require shirts and shoes then oh well you're out of there, can you put a restriction on lets say bald people, or people over 6' and so on though it would be silly to you or me but none the less a restriction that is otherwise legal.
 

Jeff Hayes

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Yes go with that argument of "it's my property", good luck.

Yes can one restricted other legal behavior when lease or license these areas as long as it does not violate the Civil Rights.
Legally you can go shirtless of shoeless of if they require shirts and shoes then oh well you're out of there, can you put a restriction on lets say bald people, or people over 6' and so on though it would be silly to you or me but none the less a restriction that is otherwise legal.

Dave If it is a lease or rented then the lessee or renter has property rights and can set the rules. If it is a license to use an otherwise public facility what ever governmental agency is doing the licensing would be bound by RCW 9.41.290 and 300. This would prohibit the governmental agency that was licensing the use from banning firearms. Also if it is a license to use the licensee could not make rules they simply are licensed to use the facility. I would love to hear other opinions on this.
 

massivedesign

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Olympia, Washington, USA
They are having a fly-in on MY PROPERTY, me being the taxpayer. Thus, it matters very much whether it was a lease or license to use. If a lease entitles me to bar those who are exercising their second amendment, can I also ban others for otherwise legal behavior?

Private property rights are ONLY for private property.

And there is the other edge of that knife. If you are okay with public property being able to preempt over a private company lease, then you shouldn't have a problem when a state entity blocks firearms because of the language in a private property lease.

A lot of state buildings are leased, but because the State occupies, preemption applies. In the Fly-In scenario, during the lease, it is NOT your property, it is sub-letted. Yes, you paid taxes for that property, but the govt. entity made $$ on that lease, which helped keep your taxes lower. A great example is Safeco... Next M's game, you go right on ahead and tell them that this is public property and you are coming in with your gun. Let us know how that works for ya.

What really chaps my hide, is when the govt. entity FORCES the language in the private party lease to restrict firearms. It is that way with the Children's Museum in Seattle. The lease specifically says that the Children's Museum shall ban all firearms. How does that work?
 

Jeff Hayes

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And there is the other edge of that knife. If you are okay with public property being able to preempt over a private company lease, then you shouldn't have a problem when a state entity blocks firearms because of the language in a private property lease.

A lot of state buildings are leased, but because the State occupies, preemption applies. In the Fly-In scenario, during the lease, it is NOT your property, it is sub-letted. Yes, you paid taxes for that property, but the govt. entity made $$ on that lease, which helped keep your taxes lower. A great example is Safeco... Next M's game, you go right on ahead and tell them that this is public property and you are coming in with your gun. Let us know how that works for ya.

What really chaps my hide, is when the govt. entity FORCES the language in the private party lease to restrict firearms. It is that way with the Children's Museum in Seattle. The lease specifically says that the Children's Museum shall ban all firearms. How does that work?

Except that Pacific Northwest Shooting Sports V City of Sequim and Chan V City of Seattle both say "Except as expressly authorized by the legislature, municipalities are prohibited from regulating the possession of firearms at city owned park facilities open to the public. Insert airport, convention center, arena etc for city owned park facilities.

PNWSP V Sequim also says they were not laws or regulations of application to the general public. If the event is open to the general public then I do not see how Arlington or any other city could lawfully regulate firearms at that event.
 
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