• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

A Study of Handgun Stopping Power

The Big Guy

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,966
Location
Waco, TX
Interesting and infomative. Reconfirms 2 things for me.

1. A small calliber (.22) that you can hit what you're aiming at is better than a big one you can't.
2. All around there in nothing better than a .357, assuming you can shoot it properly.

I would like to see results of small and fast verses big and slow. Close range I go for big and slow.

TBG
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
I teach that stopping power is often overrated. But I'm not going to get much more into that now.

I think this study is good, but has significant flaws. That's not his fault, as he has to use the samples provided. (I also just had a completely independent thought about a good use for rapists and murderers, but I digress.)

The "average number of rounds until incapacitation" number is surely misleading. Many of the shootings would have employed a double-tap before BDA (battle-damage assessment) to determine if more were needed. Indeed, look how many of those numbers are around 2.0. So the real numbers are going to lie between this guy's numbers and the numbers from Marshall and Sanow.
 
Last edited:

thunderbolt

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
31
Location
Yakima, wa
What all that tells me is.... Or rather confirms is.... That a handgun is a piss-poor choice to take to a gunfight. Take a rifle or a shotgun.

But a handgun is a great gun to carry when you can't carry a real gun, or better than no gun at all.


"A handgun is for fighting your way back to the rifle you should have never put down in the first place" -Clint Smith

(I'm paraphrasing his quote, but you get the idea.)

T.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
Yep. A handgun is a sidearm. It's a defensive weapon at our side for those times we expected to not need a weapon.

If you think you might need one, it had better not be just a handgun, and you had better be trying to be somewhere else.

I'd be preaching to the choir if I urged you guys to carry sidearms.

But how many of you have a long gun in your car? Hmmm?
 

Merlin

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
487
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
But how many of you have a long gun in your car? Hmmm?

You know, that is a really good question. I hadn't even considered the idea of keeping a rifle or shotgun in my vehicle because of security concerns. But that is worth reevaluating. I think I need to find a way to reasonably secure a long gun in my truck. Off to do some Binging.
 

Merlin

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
487
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
You know, that is a really good question. I hadn't even considered the idea of keeping a rifle or shotgun in my vehicle because of security concerns. But that is worth reevaluating. I think I need to find a way to reasonably secure a long gun in my truck. Off to do some Binging.

I should clarify my statement about "security concerns". What I mean to say is, I do my best to not allow illegal guns to end up on the street (because they get stolen from me). I consider it my responsibility to not allow that to happen. But if I can find a reasonably effective way of securing said long gun in my vehicle, then I would consider it. Something kinda like what the cops use, but not so "on display".

If anyone has any suggestions to aid in my search, feel free to speak up.

Are turrets legal in Nevada?
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
Even if not accessible from your seated position, or even if not accessible from the driver's compartment, it really opens up the options of a much more effective weapon available in relatively short order.

Cheap pump action shotguns are less than $300 brand new. No need to care if they get banged up a bit in the trunk or under the seat. Just remember in NV, you can have the magazine loaded, but not the chamber, when it comes to rifles and shotguns.

And yes, you can put it in a vertical rack in front of the dash if you really want to. We get to be armed the same as the police in this state. They carry sidearms, and have empty-chamber shotguns in the car.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
"How" really depends on your vehicle. I have an extended-cab full-size truck. My two constant truck guns are in a roof rack in the back half of the cab.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...ucts_id/27800/Big+Sky+2-Gun+Overhead+Gun+Rack

It's not a natural place to look and I have plans to have a cover that keeps them completely hidden from view.

My truck is also in secured parking at night, in my yard with three dogs.
 

Lostlittlerobot

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
260
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Pretty sure 'If you have time to load your rifle the jury will most likely believe that you had time to retreat' means nothing because we don't have a duty to retreat...also - my ar 15, 30 round mag in...really how long does that take to 'load'. pull back the charging handle...safey to fire...squeeze.

I don't get that. Just like how some people carry a sidearm unchambered...racking the slide takes no time...FAR less time than to retreat - if that was even an argument.
 

jdholmes

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
488
Location
Henderson, Nevada
If you have time to load your rifle the jury will most likely believe that you had time to retreat. Pulling a loaded handgun on the bad guy is going to much quicker than trying to load your rifle while being threaten with great bodily harm. (carrying a loaded, (chambered) long gun in your car is illegal in NV)

Chambered is different than loaded IMO and from my understanding also the opinion of the law. Or at least in so much as you are allowed to have the magazine in - which is what I refer to as loaded.

It doesn't take long to pull a bolt back...
 
Last edited:

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
Chambered is different than loaded IMO and from my understanding also the opinion of the law. Or at least in so much as you are allowed to have the magazine in - which is what I refer to as loaded. ...

The State of NV defines loaded as an unexpended cartridge in the chamber. An empty chamber and a full magazine are not loaded. I have ten rounds in the magazine of my SKS and keep the bolt back; just a flick will drop the bolt and put a round in the chamber. The State considers that to be unloaded.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
Pretty sure 'If you have time to load your rifle the jury will most likely believe that you had time to retreat' means nothing because we don't have a duty to retreat...

But if we choose to extricate ourselves from a situation (if an available option), there may be liability for retrieving the long gun and then going BACK to the fight. I think that may be what he was arguing, which is a valid point. But there may be perfectly legitimate reasons for going back to the fight. If I was in an IHOP parking lot in Reno...
 
Top