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Thread: Game wardens

  1. #1
    Regular Member manveru's Avatar
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    Game wardens

    With hunting season around the corner, and having been harassed by game wardens in the past, i was just wondering if anyone knew exactly what they can or can't do. For instance do they have the legal right to search vehicles/ coolers without reasonable suspicion, etc. also if colorado had a legal definition of curtilage. i already know about open fields doctrine. I've searched around the internet and couldn't find anything about it, and i won't take the game wardens word on it either.

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    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    Federal law gives them permission to inspection anything they want, without a warrant. They only have to suspect(don't need RAS) that you may be breaking the law. If you look into it, it's actually pretty scary...

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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamonK View Post
    Federal law gives them permission to inspection anything they want, without a warrant. They only have to suspect(don't need RAS) that you may be breaking the law. If you look into it, it's actually pretty scary...

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    Pretty much correct.. I watched a warden sieze a truck and guns right down the road from me.. of course, the idiot hunter took a shot from 2' from his truck off the road..

    --Rob
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    Regular Member zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    Pretty much correct.. I watched a warden sieze a truck and guns right down the road from me.. of course, the idiot hunter took a shot from 2' from his truck off the road..

    --Rob
    Road Hunters suck!

    I've never had an issue with the game wardens here in CO. The guys here are great. Go to CA or run into the Federal guys, those guys are richards.

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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zach View Post
    Road Hunters suck!

    I've never had an issue with the game wardens here in CO. The guys here are great. Go to CA or run into the Federal guys, those guys are richards.
    I couldn't believe the guy did it! .. The warden was in a dip in the road down from my house, and the truck stopped.. he couldn't see the warden from where he was, I was standing on my front deck thinking.. "he's not really gonna... BANG" ... Game warden was there in less than 15 seconds.. road hunter even missed the pronghorn.. lol.. bye bye guns and he didn't even hit it..

    --Rob
    Last edited by Bellum_Intus; 07-13-2012 at 06:56 PM.
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

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    Regular Member manveru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamonK View Post
    Federal law gives them permission to inspection anything they want, without a warrant. They only have to suspect(don't need RAS) that you may be breaking the law. If you look into it, it's actually pretty scary...

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
    link to said laws? wouldn't that violate the 4th amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    Pretty much correct.. I watched a warden sieze a truck and guns right down the road from me.. of course, the idiot hunter took a shot from 2' from his truck off the road..

    --Rob
    he witnessed something illegal going down, much different than a game warden pulling into a yard with what imo would legally be defined as curtilage and running plates, with no one outside, no guns in sight, then trying to bait people into breaking the law right in front of them.

    as for co game wardens being great, thats a far cry from what i've experienced. most of the time i've run into them i've been treated like a criminal even though i have never had a ticket from any leo.

  7. #7
    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    Here's a link that'll get you looking in the right direction.
    http://ivn.us/2012/03/06/supreme-cou...-to-stop-cars/

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    Regular Member manveru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamonK View Post
    Here's a link that'll get you looking in the right direction.
    http://ivn.us/2012/03/06/supreme-cou...-to-stop-cars/

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    hmm no references to an actual law and judges making the law in that article.

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    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manveru View Post
    hmm no references to an actual law and judges making the law in that article.
    Did you not read what I wrote? That article will "get you looking in the right direction" I don't have time enough in my day to look up all the specific case law for you. I have personal experience with game wardens, as in very high ranking and retired in the washington state dept. That was where I first heard about it(my grandpa saying that it was a terrible idea to give them that kind of power) then I did my homework. If you want to know, you look it up. Or just piss one off and see what happens. Here's a hint though, they get the authority from 3 different federal bureaus...

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    Regular Member Griz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamonK View Post
    Did you not read what I wrote? That article will "get you looking in the right direction" I don't have time enough in my day to look up all the specific case law for you. I have personal experience with game wardens, as in very high ranking and retired in the washington state dept. That was where I first heard about it(my grandpa saying that it was a terrible idea to give them that kind of power) then I did my homework. If you want to know, you look it up. Or just piss one off and see what happens. Here's a hint though, they get the authority from 3 different federal bureaus...

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
    (5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

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    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griz View Post
    (5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.
    Boohoo, if you're that wrapped around the axle able it, you look it up. But I suspect that you are here merely to debate, so I have no time for you. When I quoted that article, I made it very obvious that I was not trying to quote a original document or law. So either take the lead that I provided and start your own research, or don't. Or get back under your bridge.

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    Regular Member zach's Avatar
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    Bwahahahaha
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    Back to point


    I've heard the same thing that Game wardens have a whole bunch of authority,, up to as much as a Federal marshal

    Do any of our legal beagal type folks have the true answer as to what they do or don"t have the authority to do without a warrant, or can they be challenged just as a local leo without being shot.

    Thanks
    ch

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griz View Post
    (5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by DamonK View Post
    Boohoo, if you're that wrapped around the axle able it, you look it up. But I suspect that you are here merely to debate, so I have no time for you. When I quoted that article, I made it very obvious that I was not trying to quote a original document or law. So either take the lead that I provided and start your own research, or don't. Or get back under your bridge.

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
    Howdy Folks!
    Since I don't know either poster, I have no sides to take in this discussion on the side of one party or the other. Therefore I think anything I say is based strictly on observation and not personalities or favoritism.

    Griz properly noted that the rules of OCDO require any claims to a legal authority should be cited with appropriate statutes, ordinances, court cases or newspaper articles. It is the forum rules, the essence of what each member agrees to abide by when becoming a member of the OCDO forum.

    The rebuttal from Damonk states he isn't bound to follow rule 5 because he did not quote an originial document or law. While that may be facially true, he did make a statement that ought rightly to be supported by something. He also did state that he is giving his experience, but that seemed a little sketchy to me as I followed this thread. He does not state that he is giving his own opinion, but states his claims are based on experience. From what I can see, he is on the fine edge of rule 5, but I don't think he necessarily violated rule 5. Close.... real close... but borderline nevertheless.

    More of concern to me, as a Coloradoan and a person who makes Colorado his home, is the civility we enjoy on this board. We enjoy civility and treat one another as we would like to be treated. We can disagree without need to demean another poster. In this discussion, while not yet hurling insult or cutting down one another, I'd like to caution posters to remain civil. Elevate the discussion rather than bring it down to a lower denominator. We enjoy a lively debate. We don't much care for arguments that break down the decorum of this board.

    This is intended to remind everybody that we fare better when we maintain a higher level of discourse, and hope everyone will accord dignity and respect for every other member of the Colorado board. Everyone's cooperation is required to maintain good order and neighborly discussion. Let's all strive to keep it that way!

    Thanks,
    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Unless Co has special laws any police officer can enforce fish and game laws, and any conservation officer can enforce any state, local, or federal law. US Marshals have the most authority because they have power on any government installation or territory. I spent my first two years in law enforcement as a conservation officer, we had to follow all the same rules as anybody else concerning laws and the constitution. Conservation officers check hunting and fishing just like a trooper checks for drivers license. All that is needed for either is reasonable suspicion that the person questioned has been hunting or fishing or operating a motor vehicle. Any officer can enter a residence without a warrant, exigent circumstances, and or investigating a crime or suspected crime that the officer sees the suspect enter a structure. If a officer were to see someone DUI and chase them to their home and see them enter, they can enter to make an arrest. It does not matter whether it is a game warden or not. There is a active game warden as a member here, hopefully he will make a return visit to clear this up. Seems to me he laid this to rest once before. Parole officers have a right to enter a parolee's residence without a warrant, but cannot just go kicking in doors. Bounty hunters have some special privileges, but they are not government employees. Remember the constitution is there to protect us from government not each other.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    good post M-TALIESIN. right on the money. makes me wish for a "likes" key
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  17. #17
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Unless Co has special laws any police officer can enforce fish and game laws, and any conservation officer can enforce any state, local, or federal law. US Marshals have the most authority because they have power on any government installation or territory. I spent my first two years in law enforcement as a conservation officer, we had to follow all the same rules as anybody else concerning laws and the constitution. Conservation officers check hunting and fishing just like a trooper checks for drivers license. All that is needed for either is reasonable suspicion that the person questioned has been hunting or fishing or operating a motor vehicle. Any officer can enter a residence without a warrant, exigent circumstances, and or investigating a crime or suspected crime that the officer sees the suspect enter a structure. If a officer were to see someone DUI and chase them to their home and see them enter, they can enter to make an arrest. It does not matter whether it is a game warden or not. There is a active game warden as a member here, hopefully he will make a return visit to clear this up. Seems to me he laid this to rest once before. Parole officers have a right to enter a parolee's residence without a warrant, but cannot just go kicking in doors. Bounty hunters have some special privileges, but they are not government employees. Remember the constitution is there to protect us from government not each other.
    just some corrections. you can be charge with violating someone's constitutional rights , as an individual. not so common these days. mostly used for PC reasons.

    the cases you have used is where the officer see's a law being broken or a crime being committed.
    as far as a bounty hunter goes you can shoot them
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  18. #18
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    as far as a bounty hunter goes you can shoot them
    Howdy Pard!
    I ain't sure how to take that particular line there. As I AM a bounty hunter, certified by the State of Colorado, I have certain rules that I must live by.
    For starters, a bounty hunter in Colorado must have 16 hours of P.O.S.T. (Peace Officer's Standard Training) approved training. After that, a test must be taken. The test is then submitted and a passing grade is required. I passed mine with like 96% or 98%. I don't actually recall right now, but it was pretty good.

    A bounty hunter has some wider capability than an actual police officer in some instances, while having a more highly restrictive authority in other instances.
    For example, we go to arrest a "skip", as we call them, we are not authorized to arrest anybody except for the defendant named in the paperwork. Where does the paperwork come from? It comes from a bondsman who bailed the defendant out of jail. The contract between the defendant and the bail bondsman has requirements that must be strictly followed by the defendant, principal among them, his appearance in court at each and every court date. When the defendant does not show up for court, or violates any other restriction the bondsman has placed him under, the bond is violated. The bondsman now has authority to arrest the defendant and take him or her back to jail.

    Just a word about the whole arrest thingy.... the defendant is never "not under arrest", but remains under arrest until a verdict is rendered in his case. The bondsman will bail out a defendant from jail, but in essence, has now become the defendant's jailer of choice. He is now under custody of the bondsman. The purpose of being out on bail is not to party, play around and have a good time. It is for the defendant to maintain his job, work with his attorney to prepare his defense in court, and work on setting his affairs in order should s/he be convicted. The bond contract may stipulate the defendant is 'not to leave town', 'must call the bondsman each day to check in', and 'not imbibe alcohol or take drugs', or any other limitations the bondsman writes into the bond. The bondsman has the authority to arrest and return the defendant to the custody of the court of jurisdiction (i.e. jail) at any time he feels the contract has been violated. In fact, the bondsman may revoke a bond without any specific reason whatsoever, and return the defendant to the custody of the jail of jurisdiction.

    The bondsman has the authority of arrest. However, many bondsmen do not go after their own skips. Most won't return a defendant to jail unless they blow off their court date. That's one violation of the contract the bondsman won't tolerate. The bondsman has put up whatever the bond amount is... and if their defendant skips, they end up having to pay the courts the amount of the bond. They generally dislike doing that. They could also end up on the ''board', and that's something no bondsman wants to have happen. The bondsman will seek to apprehend the skip who has failed to appear (FTA) and can contract with a bounty hunter to arrest the skip. This authority to assign arrest authority to a bounty hunter stems from an 1872 SCOTUS case known as Taylor v. Taintor. It stipulates the following authority to the bondsman:
    They may exercise their rights in person or by agent. They may pursue him into another State; may arrest him on the Sabbath; and if necessary, may break and enter his house for that purpose. The seizure is not made by virtue of new process. None is needed. It is likened to the rearrest by the sheriff of an escaping prisoner.

    As a result of Taylor v. Taintor, the bounty hunter does not need to Mirandize the defendant when re-arresting him or her. The bounty hunter may kick down the door of a house known to be owned by the defendant to take him prisoner. The bounty hunter does not need to fret about a search warrant, or probable cause. He is required, however, to have a certified copy of the bond and an arrest warrant in his possession when undertaking fugitive recovery (as it has come to be known.)

    A police officer is limited to specific jurisdictional boundaries. Not bounty hunters, as we can cross into other states to apprehend. (caveats galore on this one!!!)
    Bounty hunters carry a variety of police style equipment and use tactics that police officers might find very familiar. But we cannot stop traffic violators, arrest people for anything and everything, but strictly limited by terms of a contract for a specific arrest of a particular individual. The bounty hunter can, however, arrest a felon they see committing a crime, just as any citizen of Colorado may, but he is not a police officer. He must not claim to be a police officer, nor suggest he is acting under color of police action. He is a fugitive recover agent, bounty hunter, bail enforcement agent, etc. He ain't a cop.

    Quite frequently, bounty hunters will work closely with cops and it is not uncommon for cops to use bounty hunters to gain information about a felon both are interested in capturing. It is not at all uncommon for bounty hunters to supply information to the police that they cannot otherwise get. Police will also share information about a fugitive the bounty hunter is chasing that has not yet been uncovered by the bounty hunter. Bounty hunters will often ask for a "Civil Assist" or "Civil Standby" from the police department, and sometimes the police will ask the bounty hunters to share information they gain on surveillance missions.

    All of which has nothing to do with Game Wardens.

    Police officers must follow strict guidelines to ensure Constitutional rights are not violated in the performance of their duties.
    Game Wardens are not civilians, but agents of government. Ergo, they are also required to follow Constitutional guidelines.
    Any government entity giving authority to a police agent, whether town marshall or police officer, or sheriff's deputy, is responsible to ensure their officers are aware of law, due process and all the rest of Constitutional limits on authority.

    Bounty hunters, while not being bound nearly so closely to Constitutional rights, must nevertheless honor certain among them. Bear in mind, the bail bond contract with the defendant is one the defendant understands when accepting that they waive certain Constitutional rights.

    We certainly cannot shoot a defendant unless there is a clear and present threat of deadly force against us.
    In most cases, the level of force we may employ is the same as any civilian may apply.
    If somebody threatens to punch you in the nose, you cannot draw your weapon and shoot them.
    The same goes for bounty hunters.
    You cannot, as a civilian OC'er, point your gun at anybody you please. That's called felony menacing.
    The same goes for bount hunters. We may have a handgun, but if we point it at anybody not threatening our own life with deadly force,
    we commit felony menacing.
    We also can be charged with kidnapping by making people move or moving them to a different location in a house where we suspect the fugitive may be hiding.
    Our authority only applies to the fugitive, and we have no authority over anybody else who may be present.

    The notion that Game Wardens have some sort of carte blanche to do what they will, above and beyond any Constitutional limitations, is simply not true.
    Nobody gets that sort of authority granted by any public or private means to simply set themselves above the Constitution, except perhaps the IRS!!!
    Not Peace Officers,
    Not Bail Agents,
    Not Bounty Hunters,
    nor Game Wardens.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  19. #19
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy Pard!
    I ain't sure how to take that particular line there. As I AM a bounty hunter, certified by the State of Colorado, I have certain rules that I must live by.
    For starters, a bounty hunter in Colorado must have 16 hours of P.O.S.T. (Peace Officer's Standard Training) approved training. After that, a test must be taken. The test is then submitted and a passing grade is required. I passed mine with like 96% or 98%. I don't actually recall right now, but it was pretty good.

    A bounty hunter has some wider capability than an actual police officer in some instances, while having a more highly restrictive authority in other instances.
    For example, we go to arrest a "skip", as we call them, we are not authorized to arrest anybody except for the defendant named in the paperwork. Where does the paperwork come from? It comes from a bondsman who bailed the defendant out of jail. The contract between the defendant and the bail bondsman has requirements that must be strictly followed by the defendant, principal among them, his appearance in court at each and every court date. When the defendant does not show up for court, or violates any other restriction the bondsman has placed him under, the bond is violated. The bondsman now has authority to arrest the defendant and take him or her back to jail.

    Just a word about the whole arrest thingy.... the defendant is never "not under arrest", but remains under arrest until a verdict is rendered in his case. The bondsman will bail out a defendant from jail, but in essence, has now become the defendant's jailer of choice. He is now under custody of the bondsman. The purpose of being out on bail is not to party, play around and have a good time. It is for the defendant to maintain his job, work with his attorney to prepare his defense in court, and work on setting his affairs in order should s/he be convicted. The bond contract may stipulate the defendant is 'not to leave town', 'must call the bondsman each day to check in', and 'not imbibe alcohol or take drugs', or any other limitations the bondsman writes into the bond. The bondsman has the authority to arrest and return the defendant to the custody of the court of jurisdiction (i.e. jail) at any time he feels the contract has been violated. In fact, the bondsman may revoke a bond without any specific reason whatsoever, and return the defendant to the custody of the jail of jurisdiction.

    The bondsman has the authority of arrest. However, many bondsmen do not go after their own skips. Most won't return a defendant to jail unless they blow off their court date. That's one violation of the contract the bondsman won't tolerate. The bondsman has put up whatever the bond amount is... and if their defendant skips, they end up having to pay the courts the amount of the bond. They generally dislike doing that. They could also end up on the ''board', and that's something no bondsman wants to have happen. The bondsman will seek to apprehend the skip who has failed to appear (FTA) and can contract with a bounty hunter to arrest the skip. This authority to assign arrest authority to a bounty hunter stems from an 1872 SCOTUS case known as Taylor v. Taintor. It stipulates the following authority to the bondsman:
    They may exercise their rights in person or by agent. They may pursue him into another State; may arrest him on the Sabbath; and if necessary, may break and enter his house for that purpose. The seizure is not made by virtue of new process. None is needed. It is likened to the rearrest by the sheriff of an escaping prisoner.

    As a result of Taylor v. Taintor, the bounty hunter does not need to Mirandize the defendant when re-arresting him or her. The bounty hunter may kick down the door of a house known to be owned by the defendant to take him prisoner. The bounty hunter does not need to fret about a search warrant, or probable cause. He is required, however, to have a certified copy of the bond and an arrest warrant in his possession when undertaking fugitive recovery (as it has come to be known.)

    A police officer is limited to specific jurisdictional boundaries. Not bounty hunters, as we can cross into other states to apprehend. (caveats galore on this one!!!)
    Bounty hunters carry a variety of police style equipment and use tactics that police officers might find very familiar. But we cannot stop traffic violators, arrest people for anything and everything, but strictly limited by terms of a contract for a specific arrest of a particular individual. The bounty hunter can, however, arrest a felon they see committing a crime, just as any citizen of Colorado may, but he is not a police officer. He must not claim to be a police officer, nor suggest he is acting under color of police action. He is a fugitive recover agent, bounty hunter, bail enforcement agent, etc. He ain't a cop.

    Quite frequently, bounty hunters will work closely with cops and it is not uncommon for cops to use bounty hunters to gain information about a felon both are interested in capturing. It is not at all uncommon for bounty hunters to supply information to the police that they cannot otherwise get. Police will also share information about a fugitive the bounty hunter is chasing that has not yet been uncovered by the bounty hunter. Bounty hunters will often ask for a "Civil Assist" or "Civil Standby" from the police department, and sometimes the police will ask the bounty hunters to share information they gain on surveillance missions.

    All of which has nothing to do with Game Wardens.

    Police officers must follow strict guidelines to ensure Constitutional rights are not violated in the performance of their duties.
    Game Wardens are not civilians, but agents of government. Ergo, they are also required to follow Constitutional guidelines.
    Any government entity giving authority to a police agent, whether town marshall or police officer, or sheriff's deputy, is responsible to ensure their officers are aware of law, due process and all the rest of Constitutional limits on authority.

    Bounty hunters, while not being bound nearly so closely to Constitutional rights, must nevertheless honor certain among them. Bear in mind, the bail bond contract with the defendant is one the defendant understands when accepting that they waive certain Constitutional rights.

    We certainly cannot shoot a defendant unless there is a clear and present threat of deadly force against us.
    In most cases, the level of force we may employ is the same as any civilian may apply.
    If somebody threatens to punch you in the nose, you cannot draw your weapon and shoot them.
    The same goes for bounty hunters.
    You cannot, as a civilian OC'er, point your gun at anybody you please. That's called felony menacing.
    The same goes for bount hunters. We may have a handgun, but if we point it at anybody not threatening our own life with deadly force,
    we commit felony menacing.
    We also can be charged with kidnapping by making people move or moving them to a different location in a house where we suspect the fugitive may be hiding.
    Our authority only applies to the fugitive, and we have no authority over anybody else who may be present.

    The notion that Game Wardens have some sort of carte blanche to do what they will, above and beyond any Constitutional limitations, is simply not true.
    Nobody gets that sort of authority granted by any public or private means to simply set themselves above the Constitution, except perhaps the IRS!!!
    Not Peace Officers,
    Not Bail Agents,
    Not Bounty Hunters,
    nor Game Wardens.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Very good post!

  20. #20
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Very good post!
    Howdy WalkingWolf!
    Thank you for the comment. I am sorry the article I posted was so darn long, but most folks have no clue what a bounty hunter actually does, or how he gets work. So I figured to hit the main points to address those who have no idea about the role of a Fugitive Recovery Agent.

    Yeah, I know the thread was about Game Wardens, but I felt an onus to address a misconception of bounty hunters. I think there is a widespread notion that FRAs are little more than vigilantes who skirt the law, rather than living by the law as applies to their work.

    Anyhow, I surely do appreciate your comment, and hope you saw something new to add to your data banks! LOL!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  21. #21
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy WalkingWolf!
    Thank you for the comment. I am sorry the article I posted was so darn long, but most folks have no clue what a bounty hunter actually does, or how he gets work. So I figured to hit the main points to address those who have no idea about the role of a Fugitive Recovery Agent.

    Yeah, I know the thread was about Game Wardens, but I felt an onus to address a misconception of bounty hunters. I think there is a widespread notion that FRAs are little more than vigilantes who skirt the law, rather than living by the law as applies to their work.

    Anyhow, I surely do appreciate your comment, and hope you saw something new to add to your data banks! LOL!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Many people have the same misconceptions about different branches of LE. The area I worked as a conservation officer had me doing mostly police duties. It was not uncommon to have people say "You can't do that you are just a ranger". I remember one incident in Fl where a Marine Patrol pulled over a truck. As the Officer was still in his vehicle the truck driver walked back to the car, read the side, laughed and then flipped the officer the bird and attempted to drive off. He spent the night in Monroe county jail for that little exercise in stupidity.

    As you said FRA are not cops and because of that they can do some things, by SCOTUS, that cops cannot. But they do have rules just like everybody does in one way or another. I am not sure where this idea came from that game wardens can disregard the constitution, but I can assure it is not true. Every police officer can enforce game laws, and most wardens or rangers can enforce criminal, and traffic laws. CA Supreme court has a ruling on this which I disagree with, I will have to find it. In that ruling they express that protecting the wildlife comes above individual rights. All they had to do was uphold the RAS in the case, instead they chose to make a political statement. So in CA game wardens may have super powers, but that is not unusual for CA.

  22. #22
    Regular Member waterfowl woody's Avatar
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    State of Washington..

    In this state the wardens can search anything, if you appear to be hunting or fishing, without a warrant. I also believe they just made it ok to pull you over just because you are towing a boat, invasive species check.
    I found this in the rcw's in Washington code

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.080

    might not link but you can cut and paste in browser.


    Just by word of mouth and many years of chatting with the local wardens I have discovered that you signed your rights away when you purchased your hunting license. so if you are in a hunting/fishing area or close to one with any sign that you may be a hunter or fisher they can stop you and search you if needed. (Doesen't sound right and I do not claim to be quoting and laws with this statement.) I have been stopped by wardens, while walking in and out of areas, they usually "demand" your gun, bullets, and license. It has been a long time since I have been checked, 3 years or so, and most interactions with the wardens is a wave, but have heard the stories of peoples belongings becoming the states belongings.

    I guess until hunting and fishing stop being a "privilege" I will make sure I follow the states 1000 page rule book, but on the other hand im sure most of those rules are from previous idiots doing stupid stuff and i have seen them out there.

  23. #23
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterfowl woody View Post
    State of Washington..

    In this state the wardens can search anything, if you appear to be hunting or fishing, without a warrant. I also believe they just made it ok to pull you over just because you are towing a boat, invasive species check.
    I found this in the rcw's in Washington code

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.080

    might not link but you can cut and paste in browser.


    Just by word of mouth and many years of chatting with the local wardens I have discovered that you signed your rights away when you purchased your hunting license. so if you are in a hunting/fishing area or close to one with any sign that you may be a hunter or fisher they can stop you and search you if needed. (Doesen't sound right and I do not claim to be quoting and laws with this statement.) I have been stopped by wardens, while walking in and out of areas, they usually "demand" your gun, bullets, and license. It has been a long time since I have been checked, 3 years or so, and most interactions with the wardens is a wave, but have heard the stories of peoples belongings becoming the states belongings.

    I guess until hunting and fishing stop being a "privilege" I will make sure I follow the states 1000 page rule book, but on the other hand im sure most of those rules are from previous idiots doing stupid stuff and i have seen them out there.
    What you are describing is RAS, and yes just like your drivers license you gave authority to the state when you accepted a PRIVILEGE. Game wardens have no super special powers that the rest of police do not have. They cannot knock on random doors of anyone's residence for shiits and giggles, they have to have a reason. And then if they have the ability to get a warrant they better get it or be on the end of a judges wrath.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 07-15-2012 at 01:40 PM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member waterfowl woody's Avatar
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    I agree wolf.

    OP question of search. If you look like a hunter/fisher then there is RAS for stop no matter what, plus search of property pertaining to wildlife items, but not your home unless reasonable cause to do so and then they can go in your home to sieze wildlife items without warrant. At least thats my understanding of Washington

  25. #25
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    hey M-T. i have been a skip tracer (or bounty hunter) and also a recovery agent for a few years. you description is pretty standard for most states. the reason a "bounty hunter has more latitude is they are a private citizen and are not as subject to a lot of rules that a LEO is (are). but as a private citizen they do not have the protection that LEO has. such as if you shoot a LEO,even in self defense, you will serve time. if you shoot a bonds man. it is the same as any citizen.

    WATERFOWL WOODY, i do get that a lot is read into the "privileges" laws, but rights are inalienable you can not sign them away, you can choose not to excersize them. granted there are some laws around that does break the constitution. such as having to inform a officer that you are carrying. but agreeing with WOLF, all officers of the government are still subject to the constitution

    now as most of you know, you can not stop a LEO from searching your property or person (well maybe in Indiana ). the only thing you can do is state that you do not give permission to search then the LEO has to justify his search in a court. of course that is if he has found anything, or a law suite if he hasn't
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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