Game wardens

M-Taliesin said:

Howdy WalkingWolf!
Thank you for the comment. I am sorry the article I posted was so darn long, but most folks have no clue what a bounty hunter actually does, or how he gets work. So I figured to hit the main points to address those who have no idea about the role of a Fugitive Recovery Agent.

Yeah, I know the thread was about Game Wardens, but I felt an onus to address a misconception of bounty hunters. I think there is a widespread notion that FRAs are little more than vigilantes who skirt the law, rather than living by the law as applies to their work.

Anyhow, I surely do appreciate your comment, and hope you saw something new to add to your data banks! LOL!

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

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Many people have the same misconceptions about different branches of LE. The area I worked as a conservation officer had me doing mostly police duties. It was not uncommon to have people say "You can't do that you are just a ranger". I remember one incident in Fl where a Marine Patrol pulled over a truck. As the Officer was still in his vehicle the truck driver walked back to the car, read the side, laughed and then flipped the officer the bird and attempted to drive off. He spent the night in Monroe county jail for that little exercise in stupidity.

As you said FRA are not cops and because of that they can do some things, by SCOTUS, that cops cannot. But they do have rules just like everybody does in one way or another. I am not sure where this idea came from that game wardens can disregard the constitution, but I can assure it is not true. Every police officer can enforce game laws, and most wardens or rangers can enforce criminal, and traffic laws. CA Supreme court has a ruling on this which I disagree with, I will have to find it. In that ruling they express that protecting the wildlife comes above individual rights. All they had to do was uphold the RAS in the case, instead they chose to make a political statement. So in CA game wardens may have super powers, but that is not unusual for CA.

State of Washington..

In this state the wardens can search anything, if you appear to be hunting or fishing, without a warrant. I also believe they just made it ok to pull you over just because you are towing a boat, invasive species check.
I found this in the rcw's in Washington code

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.080

might not link but you can cut and paste in browser.


Just by word of mouth and many years of chatting with the local wardens I have discovered that you signed your rights away when you purchased your hunting license. so if you are in a hunting/fishing area or close to one with any sign that you may be a hunter or fisher they can stop you and search you if needed. (Doesen't sound right and I do not claim to be quoting and laws with this statement.) I have been stopped by wardens, while walking in and out of areas, they usually "demand" your gun, bullets, and license. It has been a long time since I have been checked, 3 years or so, and most interactions with the wardens is a wave, but have heard the stories of peoples belongings becoming the states belongings.

I guess until hunting and fishing stop being a "privilege" I will make sure I follow the states 1000 page rule book, but on the other hand im sure most of those rules are from previous idiots doing stupid stuff and i have seen them out there.

waterfowl woody said:

State of Washington..

In this state the wardens can search anything, if you appear to be hunting or fishing, without a warrant. I also believe they just made it ok to pull you over just because you are towing a boat, invasive species check.
I found this in the rcw's in Washington code

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.080

might not link but you can cut and paste in browser.


Just by word of mouth and many years of chatting with the local wardens I have discovered that you signed your rights away when you purchased your hunting license. so if you are in a hunting/fishing area or close to one with any sign that you may be a hunter or fisher they can stop you and search you if needed. (Doesen't sound right and I do not claim to be quoting and laws with this statement.) I have been stopped by wardens, while walking in and out of areas, they usually "demand" your gun, bullets, and license. It has been a long time since I have been checked, 3 years or so, and most interactions with the wardens is a wave, but have heard the stories of peoples belongings becoming the states belongings.

I guess until hunting and fishing stop being a "privilege" I will make sure I follow the states 1000 page rule book, but on the other hand im sure most of those rules are from previous idiots doing stupid stuff and i have seen them out there.

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What you are describing is RAS, and yes just like your drivers license you gave authority to the state when you accepted a PRIVILEGE. Game wardens have no super special powers that the rest of police do not have. They cannot knock on random doors of anyone's residence for shiits and giggles, they have to have a reason. And then if they have the ability to get a warrant they better get it or be on the end of a judges wrath.

I agree wolf.

OP question of search. If you look like a hunter/fisher then there is RAS for stop no matter what, plus search of property pertaining to wildlife items, but not your home unless reasonable cause to do so and then they can go in your home to sieze wildlife items without warrant. At least thats my understanding of Washington

hey M-T. i have been a skip tracer (or bounty hunter) and also a recovery agent for a few years. you description is pretty standard for most states. the reason a "bounty hunter has more latitude is they are a private citizen and are not as subject to a lot of rules that a LEO is (are). but as a private citizen they do not have the protection that LEO has. such as if you shoot a LEO,even in self defense, you will serve time. if you shoot a bonds man. it is the same as any citizen.

WATERFOWL WOODY, i do get that a lot is read into the "privileges" laws, but rights are inalienable you can not sign them away, you can choose not to excersize them. granted there are some laws around that does break the constitution. such as having to inform a officer that you are carrying. but agreeing with WOLF, all officers of the government are still subject to the constitution

now as most of you know, you can not stop a LEO from searching your property or person (well maybe in Indiana ). the only thing you can do is state that you do not give permission to search then the LEO has to justify his search in a court. of course that is if he has found anything, or a law suite if he hasn't

waterfowl woody said:

I agree wolf.

OP question of search. If you look like a hunter/fisher then there is RAS for stop no matter what, plus search of property pertaining to wildlife items, but not your home unless reasonable cause to do so and then they can go in your home to sieze wildlife items without warrant. At least thats my understanding of Washington

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to me that makes no sense because logically if hunting and fishing is ras, then wouldn't the simple act of driving be ras for drug running?

cch10000 said:

Back to point


I've heard the same thing that Game wardens have a whole bunch of authority....

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I've heard much the same, particularly as it applies to confiscation of an offenders property.

manveru said:

to me that makes no sense because logically if hunting and fishing is ras, then wouldn't the simple act of driving be ras for drug running?

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NOOOO The game warden has RAS that a person has been hunting and fishing, and when that person received their permit they gave permission to be stopped to check compliance. Same for driving a car and a drivers license, the police do have the option to stop and inspect the license in most states. If you are operating a motor vehicle I believe in almost every state you must produce license, registration, and insurance if stopped, but you can't just be stopped to be searched for drugs. Nor can a game warden stop you hunting and search you for drugs. A honest game warden will only seize property when a law has been broken.

Hunting and Fishing are not spelled out in the constitution, so it is a privilege, just the same as a drivers license.

WalkingWolf said:

NOOOO The game warden has RAS that a person has been hunting and fishing, and when that person received their permit they gave permission to be stopped to check compliance. Same for driving a car and a drivers license, the police do have the option to stop and inspect the license in most states. If you are operating a motor vehicle I believe in almost every state you must produce license, registration, and insurance if stopped, but you can't just be stopped to be searched for drugs. Nor can a game warden stop you hunting and search you for drugs. A honest game warden will only seize property when a law has been broken.

Hunting and Fishing are not spelled out in the constitution, so it is a privilege, just the same as a drivers license.

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but the difference is with a drivers license they can't search your car with out reasonable suspicion, or a warrent. game wardens have searched my pickup and food coolers on my own property in curtilage with neither and have came into the curtilage around my property and when no one was outside or hunting and wanted to check pickups and tried to get us to break the law right in front of him.. which is why i'm trying to find out the extent of the laws and what they can or can't do.

manveru said:

but the difference is with a drivers license they can't search your car with out reasonable suspicion, or a warrent. game wardens have searched my pickup and food coolers on my own property in curtilage with neither and have came into the curtilage around my property and when no one was outside or hunting and wanted to check pickups and tried to get us to break the law right in front of him.. which is why i'm trying to find out the extent of the laws and what they can or can't do.

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Did you agree to the search? Did they see you place firearms or bows or game in your vehicle following a hunt? The paperboy has authority if he asks to search your vehicle and you let him.

Here...

CRS 33-6-x covers all this.. I'll cite one section.. you can go to lexis nexis to find the rest..



C.R.S. 33-6-101
COLORADO REVISED STATUTES
*** THIS DOCUMENT REFLECTS CHANGES CURRENT THROUGH ALL LAWS PASSED AT THE FIRST REGULAR SESSION OF THE 68TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE STATE OF COLORADO ***
TITLE 33. PARKS AND WILDLIFE
WILDLIFE
ARTICLE 6. LAW ENFORCEMENT AND PENALTIES - WILDLIFE
PART 1. GENERAL PROVISIONS
C.R.S. 33-6-101 (2011)
33-6-101. Powers and duties of officers



(1) Every Colorado wildlife officer or other commissioned officer of the division shall enforce the provisions of articles 1 to 6 of this title. Every other peace officer, as defined in section 33-1-102 (32), may assist the Colorado wildlife officers in the enforcement of articles 1 to 6 of this title. Each such officer has the full power and authority to arrest any person who he or she has probable cause to believe is guilty of a violation of articles 1 to 6 of this title, and, in accordance with the constitutions and laws of the United States and the state of Colorado, to open, enter, and search all places of concealment where he or she has probable cause to believe wildlife held in violation of articles 1 to 6 of this title is to be found or where other material evidence relating to a violation of articles 1 to 6 of this title is to be found and to seize the same. Each such officer shall have the authority to secure and execute search or arrest warrants.

(2) Any peace officer, as defined in section 33-1-102 (32), empowered with enforcing the provisions of articles 1 to 6 of this title has the authority to go onto any lands or waters, public or private, to demand of any person, who he has reason to believe has exercised the benefits conferred by any license provided for in articles 1 to 6 of this title, the immediate production of such license and any wildlife in possession; and such peace officer shall have the right and opportunity to inspect such licenses and wildlife.

(3) When protection of the public health, safety, or welfare requires, any officer having the power to enforce the provisions of articles 1 to 6 of this title shall have the authority to make use of any motor vehicle or other means of transportation, whether privately or publicly owned, to aid him in the performance of his duties. Payment of reasonable compensation shall be made for the use of such motor vehicle or other means of transportation.

(4) Repealed.

HISTORY: Source:. L. 84: Entire article R&RE, p. 865, § 1, effective January 1, 1985.L. 96: (4) added, p. 1351, § 4, effective June 1.L. 2002: (4) amended, p. 841, § 4, effective May 30.L. 2003: (1) and (4) amended, p. 1630, § 68, effective August 6; (4) repealed, p. 1954, § 49, effective August 6.



Editor's note: (1) Provisions concerning parks and outdoor recreation are now contained in article 15 of this title, effective January 1, 1985.

(2) This article was numbered as article 12 of chapter 62, C.R.S. 1963. The substantive provisions of this article were repealed and reenacted in 1984 with an effective date of January 1, 1985, resulting in the addition, relocation, and elimination of sections as well as subject matter. For amendments to this article prior to 1984, consult the Colorado statutory research explanatory note and the table itemizing the replacement volumes and supplements to the original volume of C.R.S. 1973 beginning on page vii in the front of this volume. Former C.R.S. section numbers are shown in editor's notes following those sections that were relocated.


C.R.S. 33-6-101

so if i understand that right, you have to show them your game, but they can't search vehicles, housese, etc. without probable cause.

All the reasonable suspicion that they need is any reason to think you may have hunted of fished that year.

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DamonK said:

All the reasonable suspicion that they need is any reason to think you may have hunted of fished that year.

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Pretty much.. or have fished or hunted that day (usually the case)

--Rob

DamonK said:

All the reasonable suspicion that they need is any reason to think you may have hunted of fished that year.

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logically no, otherwise the legal act of driving could be reasonable suspicion of drug running and your car could be searched for no reason. the simple act of hunting doesn't mean have been, are, or are about to be engaged in criminal activity.

manveru said:

logically no, otherwise the legal act of driving could be reasonable suspicion of drug running and your car could be searched for no reason. the simple act of hunting doesn't mean have been, are, or are about to be engaged in criminal activity.

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Eh, I posted the statute... I am not an atty, so interpretation is what it is... I don't typically debate the laws .. If I don't agree with them, I'll write someone, and I don't have enough cash for an atty to fight one..

--Ron

manveru said:

logically no, otherwise the legal act of driving could be reasonable suspicion of drug running...

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:lol: Further along these lines, the legal act of existence could be reasonable suspicion of drug use...

since9 said:

:lol: Further along these lines, the legal act of existence could be reasonable suspicion of drug use...

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which is why we are all innocent till proven guilty, or so they say

manveru said:

logically no, otherwise the legal act of driving could be reasonable suspicion of drug running and your car could be searched for no reason. the simple act of hunting doesn't mean have been, are, or are about to be engaged in criminal activity.

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Alright Dude, this has been covered previously in this posting, but I'll go over it again. A Conservation officer (game warden) has aditional authority thanks to federal and international conservation and endangered species acts and treaties. That is why they can search you if it looks like you may have been hunting. What constitutes RAS in this case? Anything as simple as a camo hat or a rifle rack in your truck. Or fishing polls in your vehical. So yes, they search you on those grounds. And the Supreme Court has supported that additional authority.

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DamonK said:

Alright Dude, this has been covered previously in this posting, but I'll go over it again. A Conservation officer (game warden) has aditional authority thanks to federal and international conservation and endangered species acts and treaties. That is why they can search you if it looks like you may have been hunting. What constitutes RAS in this case? Anything as simple as a camo hat or a rifle rack in your truck. Or fishing polls in your vehical. So yes, they search you on those grounds. And the Supreme Court has supported that additional authority.

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even going by that my rights have been violated by game wardens, no one outside, no guns in sight, no vehicles clearly visible from road. But since when did that "additional authority" override the constitution?