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Thread: There's no magic in the numbers...

  1. #1
    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    There's no magic in the numbers...

    Seattle - population = 616,500 (http://www.google.com/publicdata/exp...tle+population)
    Seattle - 2012 murders = 21 (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...lstats31m.html)
    Seattle murders = 1 for every 29,357 inhabitants

    Philidelphia - population = 1,526,006 (http://www.google.com/publicdata/exp...hia+population)
    Philidelphia - 2012 murders = 189 (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/12/us...phia.html?_r=1)
    Philidelphia murders = 1 for every 8,704 inhabitants

    You have a 337% greater chance of being murdered in Philly than in Seattle. See http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/12/us...phia.html?_r=1 and draw your own conclusions.
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

  2. #2
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Chicago over 250 so far (gun laws are really working there), 23.4 per 1000 Flint MI.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
    "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
    http://nwfood.shelfreliance.com

  3. #3
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Try Baltimore

  4. #4
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    Who cares?

  5. #5
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    Who cares?
    Point is that Seattle Mayor/residents think our gun laws are too lax.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
    "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
    http://nwfood.shelfreliance.com

  6. #6
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Philadelphia's laws are more restrictive than Washington's. The rest of Pennsylvania is roughly equal to Washington for strictness.

  7. #7
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    Who cares?
    Ditto
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  8. #8
    Regular Member Rob G's Avatar
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    Because I live here, I care.

    Thanks for posting those numbers.

  9. #9
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    Who cares?
    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Ditto
    Obviously you two don't and hence think no one else should.

    I care because statistics like this show that an OC state like ours destroys the ridiculous and mythical "wild west" arguments by the anti's. So when someone wants proof of that I can now point to these ratio's.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  10. #10
    Regular Member WOD's Avatar
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    SVG is spot on, as usual. The numbers say a lot about how well strict regulations hurt society as a whole. Chicago, Baltimore, D.C., and all the tightly controlled cities and states, do have a higher ratio. I don't think we want those ratios to become our reality here, and this is the fight we're fighting.

    On another note, this 'Who Cares?' attitude, is precisely how these cities became so tightly controlled. Also, the same reason why they have become the toxic wastelands they are. Having come from back East, I know what a ghetto looks like, and trust me, Seattle doesn't have one... yet. Troubled areas, yes there are some trouble spots, and they'll get worse if the 'Who Cares' attitudes persist.
    Be safe, be prepared, and carry on!

    Alle Ihre Basisstation jetzt zu uns gehören

  11. #11
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    I don't approach gun rights from a crime prevention perspective. For me it's all about individual rights. I will never make any statistical argument for gun rights. I don't believe that correlation equals causality, unless there is a proven nexus.

    "Who cares" about the numbers? I don't.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Wolfebane's Avatar
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    For these statistics to really mean anything shouldn't you also take into account the difference in population size and surrounding "hamlets" or little towns that are only there because of their proximity to the city (and some of those residents may work in the major city, and thus are "transient" residents). Also another thing to take into consideration is gang activity in the area as well as the ethnic breakdown of the residents? Also, strangely, weather has a lot to do with criminal activity.

  13. #13
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    I don't approach gun rights from a crime prevention perspective. For me it's all about individual rights. I will never make any statistical argument for gun rights. I don't believe that correlation equals causality, unless there is a proven nexus.

    "Who cares" about the numbers? I don't.
    I see and understand your viewpoint and am more in line with your thinking, but I really love knowing things and statistics and it is fun blowing peoples misunderstandings out of the water. And just because you and I may not care about statistics don't mean it won't help others see things in a different light.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  14. #14
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfebane View Post
    For these statistics to really mean anything shouldn't you also take into account the difference in population size and surrounding "hamlets" or little towns that are only there because of their proximity to the city (and some of those residents may work in the major city, and thus are "transient" residents). Also another thing to take into consideration is gang activity in the area as well as the ethnic breakdown of the residents? Also, strangely, weather has a lot to do with criminal activity.

    So does demographics (not ethnic, but economic).
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 07-14-2012 at 09:30 PM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  15. #15
    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    Who cares?
    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Ditto
    It's much like why I ride a Harley. If I have to explain it to you, you wouldn't understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    Point is that Seattle Mayor/residents think our gun laws are too lax.
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Obviously you two [deanf and amlevin] don't [care] and hence think no one else should.

    I care because statistics like this show that an OC state like ours destroys the ridiculous and mythical "wild west" arguments by the anti's. So when someone wants proof of that I can now point to these ratio's.
    Clearly, GD and SVG "get it."
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

  16. #16
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    Awesome, thanks for the stats! Always looking for ammo in my discussions with people about the value of an armed public.

    Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2

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