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Thread: Got some questions for the masses....

  1. #1
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    Got some questions for the masses....

    I have lived in Texas my whole life. Still do until the near future. Going to be moving to Spokane within the next 2-3 months. I am very pleased that this is an OC state. I have read the laws and have a couple questions. But first a little about me. I'm 44 yrs old and have had a chl permit in Texas since inception over 15 years ago. No issues and no problems. I'm an average citizen.

    Here are my questions, please bear with me.



    I know, there is concealed license in Wa also,...I am Planning on getting the permit, I know you have to have established a residence for 90 days before applying. So can I not OC until 90 days has passed...or until I get me state issued I.D? Or right off from the start?

    When I do obtain my concealed permit...what happens if my jacket is blown open by the wind and my gun gets exposed ......is that an issue? Sure is here!

    Also printing is highly ill advised here....where the gun makes an impression on your clothes,..because concealed means what it states. Issues with this or laws?

    This whole new process is going to be difficult to get me head around. I have wanted Texas to get open carry ever since the chl laws passed. I dont believe it will ever happening Texas. I have been reading in the forums and carrying n Spokane seems to be a non issue....I'm just trying to get me head around it.

    Thank you all... And please be gentle...

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Welcome to the Northwest and OCDO, in Washington State since we are an open carry state our CPL is primarily for when we choose to conceal and since both methods are legal there is no issue on your weapon being exposed accidentally, if done purposely then yes that is a violation of law.
    Example walking about carrying concealed and with wind blows back your jacket or vest there is no issue, if you choose to take off your jacket and carry it or put it on the back of your chair there is no issue, if you get into a heated argument and then brush back exposing your firearm there is a problem, if you brush back your jacket to fend off a threat there is not an issue.
    The only thing on printing of the firearm while concealing is only a failure in concealment not unlawful.

    Dave
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    Welcome to the forum Superduty. I would suggest you read the FAQs sticky at the top of the Washington thread.

    Now I hate to disagree with you right off the bat but your jacket blowing open is a non issue in Texas read the fine print in 30.06. In Washington if your jacket blows open you are simply OCing for a moment. One caution opening your jacket to display your firearm in Washington can get you in trouble here as well if you are attempting to intimidate someone.

    If you are in Washington prior to moving here apply for a non resident CPL that way you have it when you move here, someone else can chime in here to verify that you would dodge the 90 day wait by already having a Washington CPL and would only need to change you address.

    If you are moving to the Spokane area I and or several others would be glad to meet you for coffee or a meal to go over the laws concerning carrying a firearm in Washington. Keep in mind we are not Attorneys and you should do your own research.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Welcome to the Northwest and OCDO, in Washington State since we are an open carry state our CPL is primarily for when we choose to conceal and since both methods are legal there is no issue on your weapon being exposed accidentally, if done purposely then yes that is a violation of law.
    Example walking about carrying concealed and with wind blows back your jacket or vest there is no issue, if you choose to take off your jacket and carry it or put it on the back of your chair there is no issue, if you get into a heated argument and then brush back exposing your firearm there is a problem, if you brush back your jacket to fend off a threat there is not an issue.
    The only thing on printing of the firearm while concealing is only a failure in concealment not unlawful.

    Dave
    Well said Dave.

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    Orphan, 30.06 here in Texas is a trespass law...has nothing to do with accidental exposure.

    Link, please.

    Shane

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    Campaign Veteran ak56's Avatar
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    Superduty, Welcome to Washington. You're going to love it here.

    Dave & Orphan have pretty much answered your questions, but just to clarify one point, no license is required to OC. You can open carry from day one that you are here. The main gotcha on that is you must unload before you get into your vehicle. As Orphan said, check out the FAQ stickied at the top of the Washington forum section.

    What part of Texas are you coming from? My daughter and son-in-law are in Lubbock, and my wife and I drive down every spring to visit. It seems ridiculous that the only place I have to conceal during the entire trip is Texas. I've been following the efforts to change this and hope that they are eventually succesfull.
    No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford as quoted in Terry v Ohio.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Superduty View Post
    Orphan, 30.06 here in Texas is a trespass law...has nothing to do with accidental exposure.

    Link, please.

    Shane
    Superduty My bad on the 30.06, I should have said 46.035. I do not know the Texas laws as well as Washington thus I cited the wrong code.

    Here is the Texas law

    Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

    Notice it says "INTENTIONALLY FAILS TO CONCEAL" an accidental exposure from a gust of wind blowing open your jacket is not intentional. In order to have a problem you would have to purposefully display the firearm in a manner similar to what BigDave and I gave in our examples earlier in the thread.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superduty View Post
    ... 30.06 here in Texas is a trespass law...

    No Pun Intended I'm sure :P

    Welcome to the forum, i hope that you will like Washington. It is a good state for OC

    Bat
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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Son-in-law and oldest daughter live in TX...so something else to remember. Signs mean nothing here, so don't look for them...you must be personally asked to leave, and then refuse, to be trespassed. There are relatively few places that restrict carry, OC or CC, at least that I have encountered. I just go about my business as if I was carrying a cell phone instead of a pistol, If I am asked to leave, I leave,,,and never come back, and tell them why as I exit.

    As has been stated, you can apply for a non-resident permit and then do a change of address when you do live here, however you have to apply in person, so apply (any Sheriff's office) when you are here on a house scouting trip before you actually move would be a good idea. They have 60 days to get a non-resident permit to you (they will mail it)..most counties will do so a lot quicker. No proof of training necessary, shall issue. Oh yes, cash is quicker when you apply. My county (Okanogan) actually requests cash...but then you get your license here in one or two days too.

    You DO NOT need a permit to OC, so until you have you WA permit, just OC...not a problem..except the unloading when in a vehicle...In a vehicle without a license, the weapon can be on your hip, but it needs to be unloaded. As soon as you exit the vehicle you can reload. You can OC without a license anywhere you can cc with a license, with a couple minor exceptions you will probably not encounter...they are in RCW 9.41.300

    The unloaded in a vehicle restriction goes away with a CPL, so it is a good idea to get that CPL. Oh yes, NEVER have a loaded long gun in or on a vehicle, CPL or not. F&W, only applies to long guns. F&W does not consider a pistol a "firearm" when carried for self defense.
    Last edited by hermannr; 07-14-2012 at 02:47 PM.

  10. #10
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Superduty also note, just because it is stated in law does not mean that some officer/s will misconstrue or not even know the details of the law and if that does occur then you can seek some type of relief through the City, County or Courts depending upon the severity of it.
    Just because it is law does not mean that some harm cannot come from it though one can seek correction through the City, County or the Courts depending upon the circumstances.

    Spokane like other cities have had their issues but moving ahead.
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  11. #11
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    Son-in-law and oldest daughter live in TX...so something else to remember. Signs mean nothing here, so don't look for them...you must be personally asked to leave, and then refuse, to be trespassed. There are relatively few places that restrict carry, OC or CC, at least that I have encountered. I just go about my business as if I was carrying a cell phone instead of a pistol, If I am asked to leave, I leave,,,and never come back, and tell them why as I exit.

    As has been stated, you can apply for a non-resident permit and then do a change of address when you do live here, however you have to apply in person, so apply (any Sheriff's office) when you are here on a house scouting trip before you actually move would be a good idea. They have 60 days to get a non-resident permit to you (they will mail it)..most counties will do so a lot quicker. No proof of training necessary, shall issue.

    You DO NOT need a permit to OC, so until you have you WA permit, just OC...not a problem..except the unloading when in a vehicle...In a vehicle without a license, the weapon can be on your hip, but it needs to be unloaded. As soon as you exit the vehicle you can reload. You can OC without a license anywhere you can cc with a license, with a couple minor exceptions you will probably not encounter...they are in RCW 9.41.300

    The unloaded in a vehicle restriction goes away with a CPL, so it is a good idea to get that CPL. Oh yes, NEVER have a loaded long gun in or on a vehicle, CPL or not. F&W, only applies to long guns. F&W does not consider a pistol a "firearm" when carried for self defense.
    One exception thus far and that has to do with snowmobiles you cannot carry a loaded firearm with CPL or not.

    46.10.495 Additional violations -- Penalty.
    (1) No person shall operate a snowmobile in such a way as to endanger human life.
    (2) No person shall operate a snowmobile in such a way as to run down or harass deer, elk, or any wildlife, or any domestic animal, nor shall any person carry any loaded weapon upon, nor hunt from, any snowmobile except by permit issued by the director of fish and wildlife under RCW 77.32.237.
    (3) Any person violating this section is guilty of a gross misdemeanor.

    RCW 77.32.237 Disabled hunter permits for persons with a disability.

    HB 1400 seeks to correct this but has not been able to move because of Rep Kline will not move it ahead!
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member Wolfebane's Avatar
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    Correct me if I am wrong, but when it comes to no CPL in a car and unloading do you have to put the ammo out of arms reach (say, back of vehicle) when you unload, or can you simply put it in the glove box or even your pocket?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfebane View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong, but when it comes to no CPL in a car and unloading do you have to put the ammo out of arms reach (say, back of vehicle) when you unload, or can you simply put it in the glove box or even your pocket?
    The firearm only has to be unloaded in a vehicle without a CPL. The ammunition and or loaded magazines can be anywhere as long as they are not in the gun. lay the firearm on the seat and the magazines next to it, put the firearm under the seat with the mags or you could put it in the console or glove box with the mags. The only requirement is that it be unloaded. Unloaded in Wa is no cartridge in any chamber of a revolver or no cartridge in the chamber and magazine not inserted for a semi auto.

    IANAL

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfebane View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong, but when it comes to no CPL in a car and unloading do you have to put the ammo out of arms reach (say, back of vehicle) when you unload, or can you simply put it in the glove box or even your pocket?
    Orphan post above has it correct I only wanted to add that there is a general misconception of Federal and State Laws and transporting or carrying if one is traveling through a state that is not so friendly to our travels Federal Law applies and having the firearm and ammo in different parts the car applies and if with our a trunk then the weapon has to be locked in a container other then the glove box or console.

    Guide To The Interstate Transportation Of Firearms
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superduty View Post
    I have lived in Texas my whole life. Still do until the near future. Going to be moving to Spokane within the next 2-3 months. I am very pleased that this is an OC state. I have read the laws and have a couple questions. But first a little about me. I'm 44 yrs old and have had a chl permit in Texas since inception over 15 years ago. No issues and no problems. I'm an average citizen.

    Here are my questions, please bear with me.



    I know, there is concealed license in Wa also,...I am Planning on getting the permit, I know you have to have established a residence for 90 days before applying. So can I not OC until 90 days has passed...or until I get me state issued I.D? Or right off from the start?

    When I do obtain my concealed permit...what happens if my jacket is blown open by the wind and my gun gets exposed ......is that an issue? Sure is here!

    Also printing is highly ill advised here....where the gun makes an impression on your clothes,..because concealed means what it states. Issues with this or laws?

    This whole new process is going to be difficult to get me head around. I have wanted Texas to get open carry ever since the chl laws passed. I dont believe it will ever happening Texas. I have been reading in the forums and carrying n Spokane seems to be a non issue....I'm just trying to get me head around it.

    Thank you all... And please be gentle...
    You don't have to wait 90 days to apply. You can apply on day 1. The laws say (possibly unconstitutionally, based on rulings related to treatment of "new" vs "longtime" residents of a state) the department may delay approval by up to 90 days. I'd suggest getting your driver's license moved over then going and applying for CPL. I did that when I got here and got my CPL in 14 days (Bellevue PD).
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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    One exception thus far and that has to do with snowmobiles you cannot carry a loaded firearm with CPL or not.

    46.10.495 Additional violations -- Penalty.
    (1) No person shall operate a snowmobile in such a way as to endanger human life.
    (2) No person shall operate a snowmobile in such a way as to run down or harass deer, elk, or any wildlife, or any domestic animal, nor shall any person carry any loaded weapon upon, nor hunt from, any snowmobile except by permit issued by the director of fish and wildlife under RCW 77.32.237.
    (3) Any person violating this section is guilty of a gross misdemeanor.

    RCW 77.32.237 Disabled hunter permits for persons with a disability.

    HB 1400 seeks to correct this but has not been able to move because of Rep Kline will not move it ahead!
    I have heard about this but as I do not own a snowmobile I have not actively worked at getting it repealed. I think it is interesting that they used the word "weapon" rather than firearm wich F&W define as a long gun...

    We just need to get rid of that whole set of JA's and put in some people that will fix this. I also think there is legal conflict with that as we are allowed to carry loaded pistol for our own self defence. F&W is just a bunch of anti's anyway...that whole group needs to go away too....only done by changing those that are in Oly...

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    I have heard about this but as I do not own a snowmobile I have not actively worked at getting it repealed. I think it is interesting that they used the word "weapon" rather than firearm wich F&W define as a long gun...
    How do you load a knife? It'd be kinda like racking the slide on most revolvers...
    Last edited by Difdi; 07-14-2012 at 10:40 PM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Lammo's Avatar
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    I'll toss in another welcome and my $.02 on your questions. CPLs in Spokane are obtained from the Public Safety Building, 1100 W. Mallon Ave. It's the ugly building to the north of our beautiful 1895 County Courthouse. They close at 4:00 so it's better to come in before 3:00. Cheapest parking is in the county metered lot across the street from the Courthouse. On street costs more and the City gets the money. Don't try it on a Monday morning though as that lot will be full of new jurors for the week (they clear out after noon on Monday when all the trials settle or plead out).

    As stated by others, the only issue you will have legally while carrying before having your CPL will be needing to unload while in a vehicle. Further, unloaded in WA means completely empty. Nothing in the cylinder of a revolver and no round chambered AND no loaded magazine inserted in a semi-auto. Don't know how Texas defines it. I do know that Utah is different (a semi-auto can have the loaded magazine inserted so long as the chamber is empty. There is no separation required between the firearm and the ammunition - - if someone tells you to duct tape them to your forehead they are picking up an old inside joke.

    If you don't already have a place to live picked out let me know and I can clue you in on some areas to avoid and, once again, welcome.

    Mark

    PS - - there's nothing on the DOL web page about a minimum length of residence: http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/firea...oncealreq.html
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    Regular Member Thor80's Avatar
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    I'll throw in my early Wecome also! This area is pretty nice, I'm a fan of the Un-Incorporated areas of the county myself, but as Lammo said, just give us a holler and we'll throw in our .02 about any area around here. Seems as though most of your CPL/OC questions have been answered already so I'll keep it short. There is plenty of state land in Spokane County to target practice for free. (Newman Lake/Mica Peak/Suncrest/Tyler). Also I'll throw in what I believe to be the last RCW concerning firearms in WA. Its the infamous Outdoor Music Festival! RCW 70.108.150. So that about covers it, don't go anywhere cited in 9.41.300, on your snowmobile, loaded long guns in your vehicle, or an "outdoor music festival" and you're good to go. And as Orphan stated, when you get up here give us a shout and we'll meet up! We're overdue for a meetup as it is.

    -Thor

  20. #20
    Regular Member SnarlyWino's Avatar
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    SuperDuty,

    As your questions have all been answered, let me be the 4th from Spokane to welcome you and encourage you to give us a heads up when you get to town so that we can welcome you properly with a cup of coffee and Bacon Maple Bar!
    Keep Calm and Carry On,

    Snarly

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    Quote Originally Posted by SnarlyWino View Post
    SuperDuty,

    As your questions have all been answered, let me be the 4th from Spokane to welcome you and encourage you to give us a heads up when you get to town so that we can welcome you properly with a cup of coffee and Bacon Maple Bar!
    We sold our home in Texas yesterday...I should be in Spokane in less thana month. I mentioned to my sister, who lives in Spokane valley, about open carry and she said she has never heard of it. Or ever seen anyone doing it. She has lived there for over 3 years.

    So,is open carry a regular thing? How many people do you run across doing it in a single day?

    Thanks, still trying to get my head around it.
    Last edited by Superduty; 07-16-2012 at 10:40 AM.

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    Regular Member EtdBob's Avatar
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    Howdy SD.
    I live north of Spokanistan but work in Airway Heights, so I get to drive through the city every working day.
    I think you'll love the area, with the possible exception of the odd winter storm. Do you like snow?

    To answer your question, I've carried concealed for decades, and have spotted quite a few others doing so over the years. Carrying a concealed weapon isn't the norm, but it isn't terribly unusual up here.
    Carry open however, is unusual. I'm not sure why really, but apart from the meeting up with this group of fellers, I have seen but one other individual open carrying over the years. It's so rare an event, it's sometimes referred to as "seeing a unicorn".

    I carry open all summer long, often a big single action revolver on a cowboy gun belt, and I have yet to have an unfavorable comment or incident about it, so while it is unusual, it is also usually tolerated quite well in many areas.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Thor80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superduty View Post
    We sold our home in Texas yesterday...I should be in Spokane in less thana month. I mentioned to my sister, who lives in Spokane valley, about open carry and she said she has never heard of it. Or ever seen anyone doing it. She has lived there for over 3 years.

    So,is open carry a regular thing? How many people do you run across doing it in a single day?

    Thanks, still trying to get my head around it.
    OC is not really "regular" anywhere yet. I live in Spokane county just north of the valley and spend most of my time in the valley or ID. Never had any real issues. Im pretty much a
    homebody but I do get out and about to all the major places. I rode my bicycle with the family down Sullivan rd to the frozen yogurt place and back home OC the other day and not a word said by anyone. Spokane Valley PD is actually the sheriffs dept which also helps because they are up to speed on OC and typically won't even approach you. We have a very good Sheriff here!

    -Thor

  24. #24
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    Thank you for the comments.

    Looks like we have to be out of our home by Sept 1st. I'm making a trip with a 25' enclosed trailer around Aug 3-10th, then head back to get my Airstream and the wife.

    Any places to avoid renting a home in Spokane? I have looked and it's difficult to tell from some of the photos on which is a safe neighborhood,..keeping this gun related,...

    Shane

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