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Thread: LEO Encounter in Port Orchard.

  1. #1
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    LEO Encounter in Port Orchard.

    This happened way back last year in the middle of the winter. I don't know why I waited this long to post this :/

    So let me first start out saying that I wasn't stopped for open carrying, I was in a car accident and the police came and thats when I had to talk to them.

    I'll start at the beginning of the story.
    Me, my girfriend and my friend were hanging out with a couple of peeps that were house sitting for some people. It was getting late so we decided to take off and I sat in the back seat of the truck my friend was driving. I was concealed carrying at the time and my holster was getting really uncomfortable so I decided to take it off, with the pistol still in the holster, and stuck it under my leg. My friend was going a little too fast on the road we were on and since this was the middle of the winter the roads had a lot of black ice around. We ended up hitting a patch of ice and ended up slamming into a guard rail and flipping twice and then lading on our side. I managed to grab my pistol and held on to it the entire time while we were rolling. We all were okay except for a few cuts from the broken glass. About 15 minutes after that, the EMT and the police arrived. at that time I already stuck my pistol in my jacket pocket. the police started interviewing all of us to see what happend. when he got to me the first thing I said was that I have a CPL and that I'm currently carrying. What surprised me was the cop wasn't too concearned about it. He just said "Okay, where is it?" i pointed to my jacket pocket, then he said "Oh okay, do me a favor and take it out and unload it." I did so and handed it to him. Then he asked to see my CPL. The officer asked if it would be alright for him to hang on to it until everything was taken care of. I said sure and he put it in his car. After everything was done he took it out of his car, took a good look at it and said "Wow, good looking pistol haha." (Springfield Range Officer). Then we ending up talking about pistols and open carrying for 10 minutes until out ride showed up.

    Hope that didn't drag on too much I just felt the encounter would sound better if I told the whole story

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    Regular Member Wolfebane's Avatar
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    If I am not mistaken, you don't have to tell the police that you are carrying when you encounter them, at least in Washington.

    So this whole thing would merely have been a story about your friends bad driving, instead of another cop taking another tiny chip out of the 2nd Amendment.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Have to agree with Wolfebane, the firearm wasn't a problem until nice, Officer Friendly made it one "for his safety."
    How would anyone feel if "for his safety" the officer routinely handcuffed anyone he was speaking to without any suspicion that they were dangerous?
    Or, what if the nice man insisted on placing your wife's purse or husband's wallet in his trunk "for safety reasons" until the encounter was concluded?

    My reaction would be, "I'm sorry Officer, but now I don't feel safe talking to you. Return my seized property, please. Or give me your identification so I can contact my lawyer."

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    only time I've been stopped while carrying, I let the officer (WSP) know that I was carrying when she wanted me to get into her car to do some paper work. She told me to put it in my truck and we'd be good....she didn't ask to take it, didn't want to handle it, didn't seem to care one way or the other.

    Of course, I have to say that the WSP seems to be a bit more professional than other officers...don't know if that is a training thing or a selection thing.

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    Telling the police you have a gun is asking for a problem and helping to perpetuate the societal bias that guns are controband. Don't ask, don't tell.

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    Regular Member HotLead's Avatar
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    It's hard to deny it if they can see it

    Some time ago while coming back to Bremerton from Tacoma at 2:30 AM I was pulled over.
    WSP “You were weaving.”
    Me “No officer I was not.”
    WSP “We got a call you were weaving.”
    Me “You must have got a bad call.”
    WSP “No they were following you.”
    Me “No you got a call on someone else.”
    WSP “No they were following you. I know that you have a CPL but would you let me hold that gun for my safety then get out of the truck.”
    (I was open carrying my Springfield XDM .40 in a side holster)
    Me “That would not my first choice. But I am willing to take it off and place it on the floor.”
    WSP “That would be better.”
    So I removed my XDM without taking it from the holster, set it down and got out. He went through everything for a drunken test.”
    Officer Friendly walked back to his patrol car and talked to his back up.
    WSP wisper wisper wisper wisper “WELL I DON’T THINK WE HAVE ANY THING HERE
    Finding nothing, he walked back to give me the driver license and CPL, then sent me on my way. I have thought if it ever happened again I would try to keep the gun on, but at 2:30am I just wanted to get it over and go home. Other than a random stop I thing the WSP is often pretty good.

    On a side note I had just gotten my Utah CPL so I tried to use it first but he did not think much of it and would not take it and just asked for the WA CPL

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    Campaign Veteran ak56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotLead View Post
    ...
    On a side note I had just gotten my Utah CPL so I tried to use it first but he did not think much of it and would not take it and just asked for the WA CPL
    Not surprised he did not think much of your Utah CPL. If you are a Washington resident, your Utah CPL is useless here.

    RCW 9.41.073
    Concealed pistol license — Reciprocity.

    (1)(b) This section applies to a license holder from another state only while the license holder is not a resident of this state...
    No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford as quoted in Terry v Ohio.


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    Quote Originally Posted by HotLead View Post
    Some time ago while coming back to Bremerton from Tacoma at 2:30 AM I was pulled over.
    WSP “You were weaving.”
    Me “No officer I was not.”
    WSP “We got a call you were weaving.”
    Me “You must have got a bad call.”
    WSP “No they were following you.”
    Me “No you got a call on someone else.”
    WSP “No they were following you. I know that you have a CPL but would you let me hold that gun for my safety then get out of the truck.”
    (I was open carrying my Springfield XDM .40 in a side holster)
    Me “That would not my first choice. But I am willing to take it off and place it on the floor.”
    WSP “That would be better.”
    So I removed my XDM without taking it from the holster, set it down and got out. He went through everything for a drunken test.”
    Officer Friendly walked back to his patrol car and talked to his back up.
    WSP wisper wisper wisper wisper “WELL I DON’T THINK WE HAVE ANY THING HERE
    Finding nothing, he walked back to give me the driver license and CPL, then sent me on my way. I have thought if it ever happened again I would try to keep the gun on, but at 2:30am I just wanted to get it over and go home. Other than a random stop I thing the WSP is often pretty good.

    On a side note I had just gotten my Utah CPL so I tried to use it first but he did not think much of it and would not take it and just asked for the WA CPL
    You do realize that “You were weaving.”, “We got a call you were weaving.” and “No they were following you.” was fishing by the WSP officer right?

    How did the WSP officer know that you had a CPL?

    Why did you preform tricks on the side of the road for WSP, simply refuse to do them even if you have not been drinking.

    You do understand that you do not have to be drinking or doing drugs etc to be impaired right?
    Last edited by Jeff Hayes; 07-15-2012 at 06:51 PM.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    How did the WSP officer know that you had a CPL?
    On this issue alone, running the plate will come up with the registered owner and running that person along with other information I believe our CPL information is attached as if you look on our CPL's they do have our Drivers License listed.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    On this issue alone, running the plate will come up with the registered owner and running that person along with other information I believe our CPL information is attached as if you look on our CPL's they do have our Drivers License listed.
    Can you receive a cpl without having a DL?

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Can you receive a cpl without having a DL?
    Good question? I do not think they can deny it on that basis but it might well throw a curve ball to some clerk.
    Last edited by BigDave; 07-15-2012 at 09:18 PM.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
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    Campaign Veteran ak56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Can you receive a cpl without having a DL?


    From RCW 9.41.070

    However, if the applicant does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or Washington state identification card or has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days, the issuing authority shall have up to sixty days after the filing of the application to issue a license.
    No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford as quoted in Terry v Ohio.


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    Regular Member HotLead's Avatar
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    The WSP said I was weaving and I said I was not. “He said She said” so I felt it was in my best interest to comply. That being said if one gets pulled over in Gorst at 2:30 AM, you can guess it’s just a check stop, but do I really want to go to court just to prove WSP had no witness? As far as the “I know you have a CPL” maybe he was just giving me some wiggle room, seeing as how I was OC while driving. A big no no if one does not have a CPL. At 2:30 maybe I fell asleep for a second, weaved and never knew it. I don’t think he could have proven it, but it would be hard for me to prove otherwise.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Can you receive a cpl without having a DL?
    Yes, but they'll ask for your WA ID card that's issued in lieu of a Driver's License. One of the first checks made on the Application is to check and see if your D/L or ID address given on the application matches what WSP has in their records.

    Considering that it's very difficult to go about one's business today without some form of "Picture ID", especially flying, and the fact that the CPL Application asks specifically for D/L or ID number, I'd say that it would be extremely difficult to get a CPL without one or the other. Passports do qualify as Picture Id as they are Government Issued. Microsoft or Boeing Employee badges won't qualify.
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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    When I got my WA CPL I did not have to show proof of where in the state I was living. I used a NH DL. To prove my residency in WA I showed a copy of my orders assigning me to Ft. Lewis. They just asked what my current address was.
    I'm not sure my CPL is actually tied to my WA DL. When I went in to get my WA DL I just showed them my NH DL. I don't recall them holding on to it for more than a few seconds before handing it back. This time I didn't need to show any proof of residency whatsoever. Never showed any documentation for anything. I was rather surprised at how easy it was.
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    When I got my WA CPL I did not have to show proof of where in the state I was living. I used a NH DL. To prove my residency in WA I showed a copy of my orders assigning me to Ft. Lewis. They just asked what my current address was.
    I'm not sure my CPL is actually tied to my WA DL. When I went in to get my WA DL I just showed them my NH DL. I don't recall them holding on to it for more than a few seconds before handing it back. This time I didn't need to show any proof of residency whatsoever. Never showed any documentation for anything. I was rather surprised at how easy it was.
    One can take a look at their CPL and see the block for "Drivers License or State ID" and it will answer your question.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak56 View Post
    From RCW 9.41.070
    However, if the applicant does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or Washington state identification card or has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days, the issuing authority shall have up to sixty days after the filing of the application to issue a license.
    I doubt that after having both a DL and CPL for as long as I have, that I could separate it now....
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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    One can take a look at their CPL and see the block for "Drivers License or State ID" and it will answer your question.
    No it doesn't answer the question. My CPL lists my NH DL as well as the address I had when I applied for the CPL. You are not required to get a new CPL when you move or get a new DL.
    Ordinarily you would be correct but it doesn't work in my case. I suppose I could call the DOL and ask if my CPL and DL are tied together but I just don't care. I followed all necessary procedures so if they made a mistake then it isn't really my problem.
    I wouldn't be surprised if they made a mistake since they also screwed up my height and weight on my DL. It was correct on the temporary DL. I asked if they could fix it and was told, "Sure! But you'll need to pay for a new one."
    Not happening.
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    [QUOTE=Wolfebane;1788285]If I am not mistaken, you don't have to tell the police that you are carrying when you encounter them, at least in Washington.

    Under a casual encounter with an officer you are not required to tell them you are armed, but think of it from their perspective, they walk around our streets everyday in uniform and are literally targeted by everyone on some level, they risk their lives so we can continue to walk around comfortable, consider how many times officers have been targeted and shot at just because they are a cop or because they are doing the job they are paid to do, yes there is always a bad egg in every group someone who will abuse the power they have just because they can, but why make a situation more problematic because you simply do not feel like doing something or just because you can tell them you do not feel you have to follow a request. No you do not have to tell an officer you are armed but why risk startling them or making them unnecessarily uncomfortable, we are not the ones who's lives are targeted everyday for the job we have or the outfit we wear, do a favor to them be kind, cooperative, and intelligent even to those who may not act appropriately right away, it will make a difference and be reciprocated.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=BrownC6;1793381]
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfebane View Post
    If I am not mistaken, you don't have to tell the police that you are carrying when you encounter them, at least in Washington.

    Under a casual encounter with an officer you are not required to tell them you are armed, but think of it from their perspective, they walk around our streets everyday in uniform and are literally targeted by everyone on some level, they risk their lives so we can continue to walk around comfortable, consider how many times officers have been targeted and shot at just because they are a cop or because they are doing the job they are paid to do, yes there is always a bad egg in every group someone who will abuse the power they have just because they can, but why make a situation more problematic because you simply do not feel like doing something or just because you can tell them you do not feel you have to follow a request. No you do not have to tell an officer you are armed but why risk startling them or making them unnecessarily uncomfortable, we are not the ones who's lives are targeted everyday for the job we have or the outfit we wear, do a favor to them be kind, cooperative, and intelligent even to those who may not act appropriately right away, it will make a difference and be reciprocated.
    If they fell uncomfortable they can resign and become a cab driver.
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    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=BrownC6;1793381]
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfebane View Post
    If I am not mistaken, you don't have to tell the police that you are carrying when you encounter them, at least in Washington.

    Under a casual encounter with an officer you are not required to tell them you are armed, but think of it from their perspective, they walk around our streets everyday in uniform and are literally targeted by everyone on some level, they risk their lives so we can continue to walk around comfortable, consider how many times officers have been targeted and shot at just because they are a cop or because they are doing the job they are paid to do, yes there is always a bad egg in every group someone who will abuse the power they have just because they can, but why make a situation more problematic because you simply do not feel like doing something or just because you can tell them you do not feel you have to follow a request. No you do not have to tell an officer you are armed but why risk startling them or making them unnecessarily uncomfortable, we are not the ones who's lives are targeted everyday for the job we have or the outfit we wear, do a favor to them be kind, cooperative, and intelligent even to those who may not act appropriately right away, it will make a difference and be reciprocated.
    LEOs are not your friends, do as you choose, but consider that you are training the officer that a firearm is something you are ashamed of, that your privacy is less important than that HE feel "safe", and last talking to the police can do you nothing but harm. Looks like another good place for my favorite video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc it's a bit long, but well worth the time, since both the lawyer and the policeman tell you the exact same thing.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    My reaction would be, "I'm sorry Officer, but now I don't feel safe talking to you. Return my seized property, please. Or give me your identification so I can contact my lawyer."
    I wonder how asking the officer to put his weapons in his car, for "citizen safety" would go over? The officer has removed your means of making yourself safe, what's he afraid of now?

    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Passports do qualify as Picture Id as they are Government Issued.
    I generally prefer to use my passport when it comes to showing ID. It's legal government-issued picture ID, but it's a lot harder to abuse the data it contains than it is with a driver's license. Even for police or local government, the fact a passport if federal adds an extra hoop or two to jump through, with each hoop having a security check built in. A really determined fishing attempt can still make a passport work for them, but it will deter casual invasions of privacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrownC6 View Post
    but think of it from their perspective, they walk around our streets everyday in uniform and are literally targeted by everyone on some level, they risk their lives so we can continue to walk around comfortable, consider how many times officers have been targeted and shot at just because they are a cop or because they are doing the job they are paid to do
    Police officer is not even in the top ten most dangerous jobs in the U.S., and homicides against police officers are at a 50-year low. Roofers, garbage truck drivers, fishermen, farmers, coal miners and firefighters all do necessary work that is required to keep our civilization from collapsing. And yet, nobody goes around insisting that they should get a free pass to break the law, abuse their fellow citizens or make unreasonable (and/or unlawful) demands backed by deadly force with impunity.

    Last I checked, police officer was something like 16th or 13th most dangerous job in the country (depending on whether the list is generated from fatalities only or all accident data, respectively). Police officers swear oaths to uphold and enforce the law. Those other more dangerous jobs don't swear such an oath. So why do people give police officers so much slack, even if they're breaking their oaths on a daily basis?
    Last edited by Difdi; 07-24-2012 at 03:50 AM.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 07-24-2012 at 04:56 AM.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Lets not forget the amount of times that officers do encounter fatalities is because of inserting themselves where they shouldn't have. Or because of their own dumb actions.

    But that goes for a lot of trades.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
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    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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