LEO Encounter in Port Orchard.

shiiiion · Jul 15, 2012

This happened way back last year in the middle of the winter. I don't know why I waited this long to post this :/

So let me first start out saying that I wasn't stopped for open carrying, I was in a car accident and the police came and thats when I had to talk to them.

I'll start at the beginning of the story.
Me, my girfriend and my friend were hanging out with a couple of peeps that were house sitting for some people. It was getting late so we decided to take off and I sat in the back seat of the truck my friend was driving. I was concealed carrying at the time and my holster was getting really uncomfortable so I decided to take it off, with the pistol still in the holster, and stuck it under my leg. My friend was going a little too fast on the road we were on and since this was the middle of the winter the roads had a lot of black ice around. We ended up hitting a patch of ice and ended up slamming into a guard rail and flipping twice and then lading on our side. I managed to grab my pistol and held on to it the entire time while we were rolling. We all were okay except for a few cuts from the broken glass. About 15 minutes after that, the EMT and the police arrived. at that time I already stuck my pistol in my jacket pocket. the police started interviewing all of us to see what happend. when he got to me the first thing I said was that I have a CPL and that I'm currently carrying. What surprised me was the cop wasn't too concearned about it. He just said "Okay, where is it?" i pointed to my jacket pocket, then he said "Oh okay, do me a favor and take it out and unload it." I did so and handed it to him. Then he asked to see my CPL. The officer asked if it would be alright for him to hang on to it until everything was taken care of. I said sure and he put it in his car. After everything was done he took it out of his car, took a good look at it and said "Wow, good looking pistol haha." (Springfield Range Officer). Then we ending up talking about pistols and open carrying for 10 minutes until out ride showed up.

Hope that didn't drag on too much I just felt the encounter would sound better if I told the whole story

Wolfebane · Jul 15, 2012

If I am not mistaken, you don't have to tell the police that you are carrying when you encounter them, at least in Washington.

So this whole thing would merely have been a story about your friends bad driving, instead of another cop taking another tiny chip out of the 2nd Amendment.

Fallschirjmäger · Jul 15, 2012

Have to agree with Wolfebane, the firearm wasn't a problem until nice, Officer Friendly made it one "for his safety."
How would anyone feel if "for his safety" the officer routinely handcuffed anyone he was speaking to without any suspicion that they were dangerous?
Or, what if the nice man insisted on placing your wife's purse or husband's wallet in his trunk "for safety reasons" until the encounter was concluded?

My reaction would be, "I'm sorry Officer, but now I don't feel safe talking to you. Return my seized property, please. Or give me your identification so I can contact my lawyer."

oneeyeross · Jul 15, 2012

only time I've been stopped while carrying, I let the officer (WSP) know that I was carrying when she wanted me to get into her car to do some paper work. She told me to put it in my truck and we'd be good....she didn't ask to take it, didn't want to handle it, didn't seem to care one way or the other.

Of course, I have to say that the WSP seems to be a bit more professional than other officers...don't know if that is a training thing or a selection thing.

Mike · Jul 15, 2012

Telling the police you have a gun is asking for a problem and helping to perpetuate the societal bias that guns are controband. Don't ask, don't tell.

HotLead · Jul 15, 2012

It's hard to deny it if they can see it

Some time ago while coming back to Bremerton from Tacoma at 2:30 AM I was pulled over.
WSP “You were weaving.”
Me “No officer I was not.”
WSP “We got a call you were weaving.”
Me “You must have got a bad call.”
WSP “No they were following you.”
Me “No you got a call on someone else.”
WSP “No they were following you. I know that you have a CPL but would you let me hold that gun for my safety then get out of the truck.”
(I was open carrying my Springfield XDM .40 in a side holster)
Me “That would not my first choice. But I am willing to take it off and place it on the floor.”
WSP “That would be better.”
So I removed my XDM without taking it from the holster, set it down and got out. He went through everything for a drunken test.”
Officer Friendly walked back to his patrol car and talked to his back up.
WSP wisper wisper wisper wisper “WELL I DON’T THINK WE HAVE ANY THING HERE”
Finding nothing, he walked back to give me the driver license and CPL, then sent me on my way. I have thought if it ever happened again I would try to keep the gun on, but at 2:30am I just wanted to get it over and go home. Other than a random stop I thing the WSP is often pretty good.

On a side note I had just gotten my Utah CPL so I tried to use it first but he did not think much of it and would not take it and just asked for the WA CPL

ak56 · Jul 15, 2012

HotLead said:
...
On a side note I had just gotten my Utah CPL so I tried to use it first but he did not think much of it and would not take it and just asked for the WA CPL

Not surprised he did not think much of your Utah CPL. If you are a Washington resident, your Utah CPL is useless here.

RCW 9.41.073
Concealed pistol license — Reciprocity.

(1)(b) This section applies to a license holder from another state only while the license holder is not a resident of this state...

Jeff Hayes · Jul 15, 2012

HotLead said:
Some time ago while coming back to Bremerton from Tacoma at 2:30 AM I was pulled over.
WSP “You were weaving.”
Me “No officer I was not.”
WSP “We got a call you were weaving.”
Me “You must have got a bad call.”
WSP “No they were following you.”
Me “No you got a call on someone else.”
WSP “No they were following you. I know that you have a CPL but would you let me hold that gun for my safety then get out of the truck.”
(I was open carrying my Springfield XDM .40 in a side holster)
Me “That would not my first choice. But I am willing to take it off and place it on the floor.”
WSP “That would be better.”
So I removed my XDM without taking it from the holster, set it down and got out. He went through everything for a drunken test.”
Officer Friendly walked back to his patrol car and talked to his back up.
WSP wisper wisper wisper wisper “WELL I DON’T THINK WE HAVE ANY THING HERE”
Finding nothing, he walked back to give me the driver license and CPL, then sent me on my way. I have thought if it ever happened again I would try to keep the gun on, but at 2:30am I just wanted to get it over and go home. Other than a random stop I thing the WSP is often pretty good.

On a side note I had just gotten my Utah CPL so I tried to use it first but he did not think much of it and would not take it and just asked for the WA CPL

You do realize that “You were weaving.”, “We got a call you were weaving.” and “No they were following you.” was fishing by the WSP officer right?

How did the WSP officer know that you had a CPL?

Why did you preform tricks on the side of the road for WSP, simply refuse to do them even if you have not been drinking.

You do understand that you do not have to be drinking or doing drugs etc to be impaired right?

BigDave · Jul 15, 2012

Orphan said:
How did the WSP officer know that you had a CPL?

On this issue alone, running the plate will come up with the registered owner and running that person along with other information I believe our CPL information is attached as if you look on our CPL's they do have our Drivers License listed.

gogodawgs · Jul 15, 2012

BigDave said:
On this issue alone, running the plate will come up with the registered owner and running that person along with other information I believe our CPL information is attached as if you look on our CPL's they do have our Drivers License listed.

Can you receive a cpl without having a DL?

BigDave · Jul 15, 2012

gogodawgs said:
Can you receive a cpl without having a DL?

Good question? I do not think they can deny it on that basis but it might well throw a curve ball to some clerk.

ak56 · Jul 15, 2012

gogodawgs said:
Can you receive a cpl without having a DL?

From RCW 9.41.070

However, if the applicant does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or Washington state identification card or has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days, the issuing authority shall have up to sixty days after the filing of the application to issue a license.

HotLead · Jul 15, 2012

The WSP said I was weaving and I said I was not. “He said She said” so I felt it was in my best interest to comply. That being said if one gets pulled over in Gorst at 2:30 AM, you can guess it’s just a check stop, but do I really want to go to court just to prove WSP had no witness? As far as the “I know you have a CPL” maybe he was just giving me some wiggle room, seeing as how I was OC while driving. A big no no if one does not have a CPL. At 2:30 maybe I fell asleep for a second, weaved and never knew it. I don’t think he could have proven it, but it would be hard for me to prove otherwise.

amlevin · Jul 16, 2012

gogodawgs said:
Can you receive a cpl without having a DL?

Yes, but they'll ask for your WA ID card that's issued in lieu of a Driver's License. One of the first checks made on the Application is to check and see if your D/L or ID address given on the application matches what WSP has in their records.

Considering that it's very difficult to go about one's business today without some form of "Picture ID", especially flying, and the fact that the CPL Application asks specifically for D/L or ID number, I'd say that it would be extremely difficult to get a CPL without one or the other. Passports do qualify as Picture Id as they are Government Issued. Microsoft or Boeing Employee badges won't qualify.

decklin · Jul 16, 2012

When I got my WA CPL I did not have to show proof of where in the state I was living. I used a NH DL. To prove my residency in WA I showed a copy of my orders assigning me to Ft. Lewis. They just asked what my current address was.
I'm not sure my CPL is actually tied to my WA DL. When I went in to get my WA DL I just showed them my NH DL. I don't recall them holding on to it for more than a few seconds before handing it back. This time I didn't need to show any proof of residency whatsoever. Never showed any documentation for anything. I was rather surprised at how easy it was.

BigDave · Jul 16, 2012

decklin said:
When I got my WA CPL I did not have to show proof of where in the state I was living. I used a NH DL. To prove my residency in WA I showed a copy of my orders assigning me to Ft. Lewis. They just asked what my current address was.
I'm not sure my CPL is actually tied to my WA DL. When I went in to get my WA DL I just showed them my NH DL. I don't recall them holding on to it for more than a few seconds before handing it back. This time I didn't need to show any proof of residency whatsoever. Never showed any documentation for anything. I was rather surprised at how easy it was.

One can take a look at their CPL and see the block for "Drivers License or State ID" and it will answer your question.

gogodawgs · Jul 16, 2012

ak56 said:
From RCW 9.41.070

However, if the applicant does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or Washington state identification card or has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days, the issuing authority shall have up to sixty days after the filing of the application to issue a license.

I doubt that after having both a DL and CPL for as long as I have, that I could separate it now....

decklin · Jul 16, 2012

BigDave said:
One can take a look at their CPL and see the block for "Drivers License or State ID" and it will answer your question.

No it doesn't answer the question. My CPL lists my NH DL as well as the address I had when I applied for the CPL. You are not required to get a new CPL when you move or get a new DL.
Ordinarily you would be correct but it doesn't work in my case. I suppose I could call the DOL and ask if my CPL and DL are tied together but I just don't care. I followed all necessary procedures so if they made a mistake then it isn't really my problem.
I wouldn't be surprised if they made a mistake since they also screwed up my height and weight on my DL. It was correct on the temporary DL. I asked if they could fix it and was told, "Sure! But you'll need to pay for a new one."
Not happening.

BrownC6 · Jul 23, 2012

Wolfebane said:
If I am not mistaken, you don't have to tell the police that you are carrying when you encounter them, at least in Washington.

Under a casual encounter with an officer you are not required to tell them you are armed, but think of it from their perspective, they walk around our streets everyday in uniform and are literally targeted by everyone on some level, they risk their lives so we can continue to walk around comfortable, consider how many times officers have been targeted and shot at just because they are a cop or because they are doing the job they are paid to do, yes there is always a bad egg in every group someone who will abuse the power they have just because they can, but why make a situation more problematic because you simply do not feel like doing something or just because you can tell them you do not feel you have to follow a request. No you do not have to tell an officer you are armed but why risk startling them or making them unnecessarily uncomfortable, we are not the ones who's lives are targeted everyday for the job we have or the outfit we wear, do a favor to them be kind, cooperative, and intelligent even to those who may not act appropriately right away, it will make a difference and be reciprocated.

gogodawgs · Jul 23, 2012

BrownC6 said:
Wolfebane said:

If I am not mistaken, you don't have to tell the police that you are carrying when you encounter them, at least in Washington.

Under a casual encounter with an officer you are not required to tell them you are armed, but think of it from their perspective, they walk around our streets everyday in uniform and are literally targeted by everyone on some level, they risk their lives so we can continue to walk around comfortable, consider how many times officers have been targeted and shot at just because they are a cop or because they are doing the job they are paid to do, yes there is always a bad egg in every group someone who will abuse the power they have just because they can, but why make a situation more problematic because you simply do not feel like doing something or just because you can tell them you do not feel you have to follow a request. No you do not have to tell an officer you are armed but why risk startling them or making them unnecessarily uncomfortable, we are not the ones who's lives are targeted everyday for the job we have or the outfit we wear, do a favor to them be kind, cooperative, and intelligent even to those who may not act appropriately right away, it will make a difference and be reciprocated.

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If they fell uncomfortable they can resign and become a cab driver.

LEO Encounter in Port Orchard.

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