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Thread: ‘Gun symbol of freedom and liberty’ Front page of Lapeer County Press

  1. #1
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    ‘Gun symbol of freedom and liberty’ Front page of Lapeer County Press

    I had no idea this would be the front page of the county press! I have been working on getting the signs removed from the Sheriff's department. Looks like i could use a little more help!

    http://thecountypress.mihomepaper.com/

    A North Branch man is standing up for what he believes is his right bear arms, even inside the building that houses the Lapeer County Sheriff’s Department and Lapeer County Jail.
    Jason Harrison came to a Lapeer County Commission meeting last month, expressing his concerns that the signs on the doors of the Sheriff’s Department prohibiting concealed weapons as unlawful. After the meeting, he was told by Commissioner Cheryl Clark that to her understanding the signs had been changed or removed. Harrison said he was thrilled when he heard that.
    “I drove immediately when I left there to the sheriff’s department,” he said.
    It all started, Harrison said, when he went into the sheriff’s department to drop off the required registration paperwork for a new pistol he had purchased. He said he was wearing the gun, and after he saw the sign, he unconcealed it before entering the lobby. He said the person he spoke to was not happy to see him with the gun. He spoke to a sergeant who said the sign was legal, and he was asked to leave the building and come in without a firearm in the future if he wanted to do business there.
    Harrison is loosely associated with a group called Michigan Open Carry, and said the issue of firearm rights has been “kind of a hobby” of his for a few years.
    “I think the gun is the symbol of freedom and liberty,” he said, saying that every totalitarian government in history has taken away citizens rights to bear arms, citing Russia and Nazi Germany as examples. “If you’re in America, we’re a free society.”
    On Thursday, he came in front of the county commissioners again to tell them that the sign has not, in fact, been removed, and that he still believes it is illegal. He asked them to “compel the sheriff” to remove the sign.
    Commissioners responded that they did not have the authority to make the sheriff remove the sign, however, Commissioner Ian Kempf did promise to contact Prosecutor Byron Konschuh to get his opinion on the issue.
    “Byron has looked at it before and is looking at it again.” Kempf said, adding that he plant to have konschuh’s firm opinion on the matter by this Thursdays County Commission meeting.
    Kempf added that the tentative opinion is that the sheriff’s department is connected to the jail and therefore falls under the exemption to the law that applies to prisons.
    “I think that the other thing that is going to come up is that the magistrates go to the jail to hold trials there, so it’s acting also as a working courthouse and courthouses are clearly covered.” Kempf said.
    Kempf said he is fine with addressing Harrison’s concerns as a citizen.
    “he clearly has a passion.” Kempf said. “He’s been very polite and respectful and I think he deserves an answer and we’re more than happy to get it for him.”
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    Hopefully the media attention motivates their hearts to the right place.

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    The Lapeer County Commissioners have requested an opinion from the prosecutor on the legality of the no gun signs on the doors of the lobby of the Sheriff's department.

    according to this article , the opinion is likely that the signs ARE lawful because of one or two reasons:

    either the jail is covered under the mcl that outlaws weapons at state correctional facilities under the jurisdiction of the Michigan department of corrections.

    or

    since magistrates occasionally come to the jail to hold court sessions the building is a courthouse giving them the authority to ban firearms.

    I am asking for people to please attend the next commissioner meeting.

    Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:30 a.m.

    I am also asking for help, as i do not know what the next step is if the prosecutor decides that the signs are lawful.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
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    adding that he plant to have konschuh’s firm opinion on the matter
    lol, they need some better proof readers at that paper.
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    Kempf said. “He’s been very polite and respectful and I think he deserves an answer and we’re more than happy to get it for him.”

    I'm glad to hear it put this way.

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    Sounds to me like they are looking at two possible loop holes to validate the sign. I always thought it was an illegal sign and that they really didn`t care what anyone thought. Hopefully Byron Konschuh finds the sign illegal and that this issue comes to an end.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapeer20m View Post
    The Lapeer County Commissioners have requested an opinion from the prosecutor on the legality of the no gun signs on the doors of the lobby of the Sheriff's department.

    according to this article , the opinion is likely that the signs ARE lawful because of one or two reasons:

    either the jail is covered under the mcl that outlaws weapons at state correctional facilities under the jurisdiction of the Michigan department of corrections.

    or

    since magistrates occasionally come to the jail to hold court sessions the building is a courthouse giving them the authority to ban firearms.

    I am asking for people to please attend the next commissioner meeting.

    Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:30 a.m.

    I am also asking for help, as i do not know what the next step is if the prosecutor decides that the signs are lawful.
    The above in BOLD MUST BE PART OF THE COURT SECURITY PLAN FOR IT TO BE LEGAL.
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    i've heard that argument about the security plan before. can you cite that?
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    It takes a little searching but the rules are contained in supreme court order 2001-1

    On my phone now so don't have link handy.

    They are grasping at straws. Even if their argument is that it is a court, how can they explain that people were required until recently to bring firearms into this "court" building?
    Last edited by lapeer20m; 07-16-2012 at 02:10 PM.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    http://courts.michigan.gov/scao/reso...y/cs_appD3.pdf

    yes, the old handgun inspection rule is a good argument
    Last edited by smellslikemichigan; 07-16-2012 at 02:33 PM.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Wow! Made the front pAge again!

    This time, according to the article, the prosecutor told the sheriff that the weapon prohibition is lawful according to mcl 801.262 (which prohibits bringing weapons to a jail for the use or benefit of a prisoner.

    Grasping at straws are we?

    801.262 Prohibited acts; weapons.
    Sec. 2.

    (1) Unless authorized by the chief administrator of the jail, a person shall not do either of the following:

    (a) Bring into a jail or a building appurtenant to a jail, or onto the grounds used for jail purposes, for the use or benefit of a prisoner, any weapon or other item that may be used to injure a prisoner or other person, or used to assist a prisoner in escaping from jail.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Kempf said. “He’s been very polite and respectful and I think he deserves an answer and we’re more than happy to get it for him.”

    I'm glad to hear it put this way.
    It's just code speak for: passion = "this nut has been well behaved up to this point..." The prosecutor works FOR the police, not the other way around. Mr. Harrison has been asking nicely since last fall if I recall correctly? I wonder what their prosecutor will decide..NOT, it was decided long ago, without a court battle they will not remove the signs and they will twist & bend the law to suit them as usual.

    Sorry I do not mean to be negative, but it's the same old song & dance here from "our" leaders. Okay since a magistrate is there on occasions the public lobby magically becomes a court house??? Okay by that logic whenever any official from the court is in transit to and from a facility to conduct court business they should be covered by a 1,000 foot PFZ right?

    Edit To Add - Maybe all court officials should be issued special "royal purple" flashers and a siren that screams "make way for the King's men!" Just saying...
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 07-19-2012 at 12:20 PM.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    I thought this sheriff was pro-gun. Can't some of the members here that know the sheriff convince him of the folly of his policy?
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    The next meeting is Thursday July 27 at 830 am. You are encouraged to attend.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapeer20m View Post
    Wow! Made the front pAge again!

    This time, according to the article, the prosecutor told the sheriff that the weapon prohibition is lawful according to mcl 801.262 (which prohibits bringing weapons to a jail for the use or benefit of a prisoner.

    Grasping at straws are we?
    As written, that law requires intent to provide the weapon to a prisoner, does it not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Creamsicle View Post
    As written, that law requires intent to provide the weapon to a prisoner, does it not?
    My interpretation is the same as yours.

    Not to mention the lobby is secured from the rest of the building, and the jail is presumably further secured from the rest of the building. One would need intent, and access in order to provide a weapon for the use or benefit of a prisoner.

    A law abiding citizen conducting business inside the secure lobby has neither intent or access.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    As stated above this is just more gibberish from them. And it proves the prosecutor is a mere puppet of the powers in charge of that building, which we the tax payers own!

    Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!

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    There have been at least two more articles in the paper about this issue.

    The reporter just emailed me saying the sheriff just told her the signs have come down, almost.

    I guess they moved the signs to the part of the building that is secure and not accessible to the general public.

    The lobby is no longer posted.

    Yay!
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    I feel really proud reading this. It is not a small victory. It goes a long way to help upholding freedom and to keep our government honest and free of corruption. It shows what one person can do with patience, respect and persistence. Thank you, lapeer20m.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    good job lapeer20m
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Well done lapeer20m!
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    And one by one... good job!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    All hail lapeer20m, mover of illegal signs!

    Whether others understand it or not, what you have done is in fact a Big ThingTM.

    Let me know where I can mail you a frosty adult beverage, since I can't be there in person. Let's hope those folks in the Post Office don't drink it before it gets to you.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    lapeer20m
    I grovel at your feet! OK not really, but heck of a job!
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  25. #25
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Nice job lapeer20m!

    Celebratory pit trip time?

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