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Thread: Defense for Falsely Accused?

  1. #1
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    Defense for Falsely Accused?

    Just hypothetical, I have been very curious... okay... let's say you carry, and someone you know doesn't like you. The one thing they have on you is to report you pulled a gun, let's say you were into a heated arguement and never even went for it. But the person claimed to LEO you pulled it on them. What kind of defense is there to this scenario?

    I am just really curious of how this will stick in the end.

    I know people will say tape recorders, voice recorders, cmcorders.. but lets take that out of the picture...

    Unfortunately in society there are people that will try to throw dirt on someone else from every angle possible and this is the one common factor we all share. Are we to walk around like paranoid rabbits that someone just may on a whim want to start trouble and report this falsely?
    Last edited by kywildcat581; 07-15-2012 at 09:47 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member CharleyCherokee's Avatar
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    Even by old standards it took two witnesses to get you prosecuted for witchcraft. So let's say that it a their word against yours type of arrangement. I would think that that would be an almost ideal scenario for defense, but it does happen and if it's a LEO than yes you would likely need corroborating evidence such as a handy dandy recording device. Such as it is this is the way the world works. This is also why I give little thought to people who say we are just trying to set up the police as an OC community. If the "game" were fair to play we wouldn't need to try and tilt the odds to our favor now would we?
    A bullet may have your name on it, but shrapnel is addressed to whom it may concern.
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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    That would be innocent until proven guilty.

    If your innocent there should not be anything to worry about. Besides I don't think a POV video is going to be any help as it will most likely not show your gun in the video.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

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    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    If you have already left the scene, and the police contact you, do not talk to them, period. Contact a lawyer immediatley and let him take any questions. It is impossible to arrest without probable cause and since you are nowhere near the accuser it will take a judge to sign an arrest warrant. If you talk to police, I promise you will say something that can be used to initiate a probable cause arrest. DO NOT MAKE A STATEMENT TO ANYONE, to include family, friends, etc.

    If you stick around for the police to arrive, and you still have your weapon on you, say nothing, make no statements. It may get intense and you may be arrested, but probable cause will be hard to establish with no witness.

    If it is a domestic dispute, expect to be arrested, hire a lawyer and handle it through the courts. Domestic laws are terrible.
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    yeah gutshot, understood..

    I figured they would have burden of proof of something that never occured.

    It would more than likely just fall through the cracks.. but I was just thinking, man.. if anyone ever had it out for someone they knew carried.....

  6. #6
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot
    The same defense you have from someone saying you are [X]... absence of any evidence.
    Some officers, that won't stop them.

    If they find evidence that a crime was committed, they arrest somebody. No evidence, no arrest.
    :cough: :splutter: :choke:
    I know you've been around OCDO long enough to read about people being arrested without committing any crime. Heck, I have been. Twice.

    Filing a false charge is a very serious, and illegal, act.
    Unless you're a police officer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod View Post
    If you have already left the scene
    Its fiction of course, this never happened .. as the OP noted

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    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Its fiction of course, this never happened .. as the OP noted
    I guess that is why it began with the word hypothetical.
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    Just a scary thought that someone could possibly, falsely get you charged with something just because that is all they have on you... dunno

  10. #10
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    "I know people will say tape recorders, voice recorders, cmcorders.. but lets take that out of the picture..."

    Yep, and this is your best defense to any false allegations, and exactly why many others on this forum and myself carry one. You can't be "convicted" of a crime without evidence that shows beyond a reasobale doubt (if you can properly define reasonable doubt you are better than me) that you committed the crime. Law Enforcement Officers are bound by the constitution to not arrest without probable cause, but is doesn't always work that way. If for some crazy reason you end up in this situation do not say a word until you have spoke with an attorney. It may seem to show guilt by not speaking, but whatever you say CAN and WILL be used AGAINST you.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    "I know people will say tape recorders, voice recorders, cmcorders.. but lets take that out of the picture..."

    Yep, and this is your best defense to any false allegations, and exactly why many others on this forum and myself carry one. You can't be "convicted" of a crime without evidence that shows beyond a reasobale doubt (if you can properly define reasonable doubt you are better than me) that you committed the crime. Law Enforcement Officers are bound by the constitution to not arrest without probable cause, but is doesn't always work that way. If for some crazy reason you end up in this situation do not say a word until you have spoke with an attorney. It may seem to show guilt by not speaking, but whatever you say CAN and WILL be used AGAINST you.
    Unfortunately in some situations even a tape recorder may not be helpful.. i know a few people that I do not get along with, and if they were to just call the cops to give me hassle about this, they would have the burden of proof of course.. i don't know... doubt it will ever happen, but I am going to call gutshot if it does :-)

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    I had it happen to me. Fortunately, they backed down on a complaint. If they hadn't, I'm reasonably sure that it would've taken much of my time and a terrible bit of money that I didn't have to fight it. At the time of this supposed threat with a firearm there were no recordings, no witnesses other than him and I, he was on his property across the fence line and me on mine; both back fields and brush. I didn't even know he was back there until I walked through to hang no trespassing signs (of which he had a habit of ignoring). Upon seeing him, I waved politely and walked the other way. The next day, at the courthouse, I heard them running their mouths accusing me of pulling a gun on him. They didn't know I was in the building, much less right around the corner. Upon hearing the patently false allegation, I rounded the corner and demanded that they retract the statement or file a police report immediately... that I'd fetch the sheriff myself if they hemmed and hawed. An attorney friend ushered me to another room and they shut up.

    Lightning does sometimes strike and hopefully, you aren't the poor SOB being struck. Although I think it to be something not worthy of most of us being overtly concerned about; with a group of hoplophobes, I'd venture that they'd be more inclined to believe a false firearm accusation against an OCer than some other crime. Just look at how some of us in the nation are charged with disorderly conduct, brandishing, obstruction of official business, inciting a panic, etc. All simply because they were carrying a firearm... ridiculous! Of course, all of this is just my 2 cents.

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    A very likely angle from this type of situation, as an example ex-wife ex-girlfriend, whoever if they know you have weapons and they swear out an EPO on you say bye bye to your Weapons for at least a little while. It's pitiful because it's just a foot race of the first to get to the courthouse. And I have seen this used maliciously before and I would not want to be in that position because it would be a massive headache.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbale22 View Post
    A very likely angle from this type of situation, as an example ex-wife ex-girlfriend, whoever if they know you have weapons and they swear out an EPO on you say bye bye to your Weapons for at least a little while. It's pitiful because it's just a foot race of the first to get to the courthouse. And I have seen this used maliciously before and I would not want to be in that position because it would be a massive headache.
    You are right, and it isn't even a foot race. I can walk into the courthouse right now and file an EPO on my g/f, and she can be next in line and do the same thing to me. I was ranting about this the other day, and I believe the law was passed hurridly and with one gender in mind, and absolutely no thought of constitutional rights. When you can take someone's constitutional rights away just by saying they did something, with no evidence to show proof beyond a reasonable doubt that they did in fact do so, then the law is much to vague and would be found unconstitutionaly vague I would guess.

    I also just ran across a KRS that was dated 1975 where a LEO can shoot a fleeing felon. I thought all of these laws were removed by a SCOTUS ruling, anyone? It was effective in '75 and has yet to be amended.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

  15. #15
    Regular Member KRM59's Avatar
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    what happened to me years ago

    years ago i had someone call LE and told them i pulled a gun on them (which i didn't) but to make a long story short LE came took her statement and arrested me for terroistic threating. went to arrainment she had no wittness mediator said her word against yours case dismissed. no charge on my record.
    "To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
    - George Mason

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