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Thread: At least in Colorado they just violate our rights...

  1. #1
    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    At least in Colorado they just violate our rights...

    "Police Kill Wrong Man During Search..."

    http://video.foxnews.com/v/1736818979001/

    What blows me away is, they did not identify themselves as police. What would you have done if that was your house. Some unknown person banging on the door at 1am? Sure that's normal.

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    At 1 am?

    1. Would not have opened the door, with or without a firearm in my hands.

    2. Would not have been behind the closed door and in the line of fire.

    3. Would have demanded, through the closed and bolted door, that the person identify themselves.

    4. Would have been in a position, firearm in hand, where I could observe the door without being in the line of fire.

    I am so sick and tired of these stories about law enforcement going to the wrong address or, if it is the right address, the person they are looking for moved away months ago and then having an innocent person lose their life because of the incompetency of the particular LEOs.

    And many in law enforcement are asking why the populace no longer trusts them?
    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Yep. Cops are WAY better trained here...

    http://www.denverpost.com/ci_2102216...-warned-police

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    Yep. Cops are WAY better trained here...

    http://www.denverpost.com/ci_2102216...-warned-police
    Seriously, if this wasn't real it'd be some kind of satire on a sketch show:

    "I know," the dispatcher replied. "The officers are trained in this kind of thing. They're not going to go around shooting people."

    Officials from the Broomfield Police Department said they cannot legally discuss Kyle Miller's death while the shooting investigation is under way."
    I know, we don't just shoot people. Now, go shoot those people.

    I have been told by a friend, his buddy (LEO) has said that they like to cruise and harass people because "they can." I know not all police are bad. It's just so much worse when a LEO is bad. You are supposed to be able to trust them.

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    Knock or no knock , identified as the po po or not, cops are 100% of the time going to shoot you if you point any type of item that is or looks like a gun and the law will back them up 100% of the time.

    No criminal case here and a civil case in the Fl instance is not strong.

    Unfortunately, not every state is old Louisiana where you can shoot anyone on your land w/o needing a reason other than they are there.

    Any person reading this thread should give some thought as to the facts as presented in the news footage and how to avoid such issues.

    For example, when answering a door in which you feel the need to be armed then you should feel the need not to open the door.

    I have seen plenty of youtube vids with 5 - 6 cops entering a house and there is the owner with a gun in a foyer, out in the open w/o cover ... you know its not going to be a victory for the home owner.

    Remember, you can by 100% right and still be dead.

    Its total nazi tactics the police use now. The law supports this. Have new tactics for this expected behavior.

    Read these recent stories and have them be a catalyst for you to have plans for various contingencies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    At 1 am?

    1. Would not have opened the door, with or without a firearm in my hands.


    And many in law enforcement are asking why the populace no longer trusts them?
    Well, I have two tactics (and it depends on the circumstances) ... I either use a shotgun or rifle.

    My preferred method is to check my back door ... if backyard is clear, then out that door I go with my semiauto rifle or a 2nd rifle which has a night scope always attached and go around and scope it out further ( I can be 300-400 ft away~beyond the range of a handgun but an easy shot for a rifle). I can get a view of my front door, yard, and street without exposing myself.
    If I don't want to go out the back (like when its raining) then I get my shotgun and see who is on my front side via a window (not my door window~which mine actually has windows along the side of the door). The goal is to gain information as to who the heck is behind that door! A security camera is not a bad idea (but I'm cheap~they are getting cheaper, so I should look again). So the goal is to gather information without exposing yourself to possible fire.

    And note: if a person does get into your house, where is the safest place to be? Outside. And what goes in must come out. Just wait and effect an arrest upon their exit. Your goal is survival, right?

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Not IDing may be an issue for the sheriff's department and those two deputies specifically.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    Yep. Cops are WAY better trained here...

    http://www.denverpost.com/ci_2102216...-warned-police
    Gotta disagree with ya on this one; I rode on patrol with a sheriff's deputy buddy in a county that contained some real redneck areas for 9 years. I can't recall the number of times I heard "He wouldn't hurt a flee-- He don't mean nobody no harm--He's just upset he won't hurt nobody-- He don't got no guns......." only to have to fight them to the ground, use Mace or a stun gun, couple armed stand-offs etc.

    I wouldn't trust ANY family member to be giving me the truth; I can just hear it now after a LEO is shot...."Why did you say it was a pellet-gun"? "Well; I didn't want the po-lease to hurt him".

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Well, I have two tactics (and it depends on the circumstances) ... I either use a shotgun or rifle.

    My preferred method is to check my back door ... if backyard is clear, then out that door I go with my semiauto rifle or a 2nd rifle which has a night scope always attached and go around and scope it out further ( I can be 300-400 ft away~beyond the range of a handgun but an easy shot for a rifle). I can get a view of my front door, yard, and street without exposing myself.
    If I don't want to go out the back (like when its raining) then I get my shotgun and see who is on my front side via a window (not my door window~which mine actually has windows along the side of the door). The goal is to gain information as to who the heck is behind that door! A security camera is not a bad idea (but I'm cheap~they are getting cheaper, so I should look again). So the goal is to gather information without exposing yourself to possible fire.

    And note: if a person does get into your house, where is the safest place to be? Outside. And what goes in must come out. Just wait and effect an arrest upon their exit. Your goal is survival, right?
    FYI David, when serving an arrest warrant on a dangerous suspect, it's standard procedure to establish a perimeter ("containment zone" in police parlance) before knocking. Had you exited the rear with a firearm, you'd be at similar risk of death by cop as the gent was when he opened the door with a pistol in his hand.

    BTW, I don't believe the cops when they say he was pointing a pistol at them. Most of us are trained NOT to do that unless it's absolutely necessary. On the other hand, law enforcement is trained to draw down on anyone with an unholstered firearm. I suspect that due to the situation their handguns were already drawn, and because of their heightened state of nervousness, they simply fired when they saw the gun, assuming the worst.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    FYI David, when serving an arrest warrant on a dangerous suspect, it's standard procedure to establish a perimeter ("containment zone" in police parlance) before knocking. Had you exited the rear with a firearm, you'd be at similar risk of death by cop as the gent was when he opened the door with a pistol in his hand.
    So as I read through this and develop my own home defensive strategies (regardless of police or bg at the door), it seems to me that one of the best options is to wire the place with cameras and have a big red button that lights up the complete exterior for a quick lay of the land, then act accordingly.

  11. #11
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Usually if the police show up in the middle of the night they have a full dance troupe with them. That means every door and every window is covered, and they will shoot you through a window. The entry will be through a door if the door is not answered, not necessarily the front door. Several things need to be done if a person wants to not be the victim of the police. Install Steel anchored and steel doors, and security cameras. This is not to keep them out but to buy time to determine who is pounding at your door, and hopefully time to call the police themselves. They still will break in, tear your house up, but if they are wrong they will pay for it, and you will still be alive. One very old house we lived in when younger had a empty cistern in the basement, it was very hidden and had a ladder. A person could put food and water and hide in it for days. I actually found it by hearing a cat that fell down it, it took us a week to locate the cat by it's cries. This house was built before the civil war, seemed like a strange place for a cistern.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogidu View Post
    So as I read through this and develop my own home defensive strategies (regardless of police or bg at the door), it seems to me that one of the best options is to wire the place with cameras and have a big red button that lights up the complete exterior for a quick lay of the land, then act accordingly.
    Well, if you really wanted to throw them for a loop, install floodlights and loudspeakers behind where the police are likely to stage themselves, and just before the SHTF, turn on the floodlights and say over the loudspeakers, "ATTENTION SMALLVILLE POLICE DEPARTMENT - THIS IS THE FBI! YOU ARE SURROUNDED. DROP YOUR WEAPONS AND BACK AWAY FROM THE HOUSE!"

    Of course that might get you deep kimchi with two law enforcement agencies...
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Well, if you really wanted to throw them for a loop, install floodlights and loudspeakers behind where the police are likely to stage themselves, and just before the SHTF, turn on the floodlights and say over the loudspeakers, "ATTENTION SMALLVILLE POLICE DEPARTMENT - THIS IS THE FBI! YOU ARE SURROUNDED. DROP YOUR WEAPONS AND BACK AWAY FROM THE HOUSE!"

    Of course that might get you deep kimchi with two law enforcement agencies...
    You're honor, we was thinkin' fun, not felony...

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Perhaps if you said "MIB" no one could claim impersonation of law enforcement.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    Perhaps if you said "MIB" no one could claim impersonation of law enforcement.
    Now you're thinking!
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    "Police Kill Wrong Man During Search..."

    http://video.foxnews.com/v/1736818979001/

    What blows me away is, they did not identify themselves as police. What would you have done if that was your house. Some unknown person banging on the door at 1am? Sure that's normal.
    It's ok. It was the cops that murdered him. Will be swept under the carpet as they are above the law.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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