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Thread: OC and or CC on the WWU Campus

  1. #1
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    OC and or CC on the WWU Campus

    As a father of a WWU student for the past two years I have been to the campus many times. My daughter explained campus policy was No Firearms are allowed on campus. This policy applies to all individuals who work, live, or visit the Western Washington University campus.

    http://www.wwu.edu/policies/docs/560...s%20Policy.pdf

    When I have visited the campus to deliver my daughter at the beginning of the year or pick her up at the end of the year I have always locked my pistol in my truck, not wanting to break Campus Policy too much.

    This WWU Policy states at the top of the page:

    Effective Date: December 4, 1992
    Authority: RCW 28B.35.120(12)
    Approved: Board of Trustees 8/3/90; Amended 12/4/92

    The map for campus carry states Washington as "Carry Not Statutorily Prohibited"

    RCW 9.41.290 State preemption has an effective date of 1994.

    WWU states RCW 28B.35.120(12) as the authority to ban weapons on campus as of December 4, 1992. If I understand the WAC correctly, I would conclude that WWU should be held to RCW 9.41.290 State preemption allowing Campus Carry both OC and CC by qualified individuals.

    So my questions are: 1. Can I OC on the WWU Campus and in the buildings on campus legally?
    2. Has anyone ever gone OC on the WWU Campus or any other Campus?

  2. #2
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
    As a father of a WWU student for the past two years I have been to the campus many times. My daughter explained campus policy was No Firearms are allowed on campus. This policy applies to all individuals who work, live, or visit the Western Washington University campus.

    http://www.wwu.edu/policies/docs/560...s%20Policy.pdf

    When I have visited the campus to deliver my daughter at the beginning of the year or pick her up at the end of the year I have always locked my pistol in my truck, not wanting to break Campus Policy too much.

    This WWU Policy states at the top of the page:

    Effective Date: December 4, 1992
    Authority: RCW 28B.35.120(12)
    Approved: Board of Trustees 8/3/90; Amended 12/4/92

    The map for campus carry states Washington as "Carry Not Statutorily Prohibited"

    RCW 9.41.290 State preemption has an effective date of 1994.

    WWU states RCW 28B.35.120(12) as the authority to ban weapons on campus as of December 4, 1992. If I understand the WAC correctly, I would conclude that WWU should be held to RCW 9.41.290 State preemption allowing Campus Carry both OC and CC by qualified individuals.

    So my questions are: 1. Can I OC on the WWU Campus and in the buildings on campus legally?
    2. Has anyone ever gone OC on the WWU Campus or any other Campus?
    You may be right in your conclusions, I don't think the courts have ruled on it. (Vote Sanders).

    I have OC'd on Whatcom Community College and WWU, a word was not said to me. You are not breaking the law by doing so, some even students I know, simply conceal.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  3. #3
    Regular Member Wolfebane's Avatar
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    I just recently graduated from WWU, and the closest I came to open carrying on campus was participating in the Empty Holster event each year to protest the schools stance on legal carry of firearms.

    I did not want to risk my academic career while at Western by trying to get away with this, but as I understand it, it's like any other private property, they ask you to leave and if you refuse then it becomes a legal issue. Keep in mind though that the Campus Police are currently a bit twitchy when it comes to weapons on campus - I had to get signed permission from several different offices and teachers just to bring a non functioning 1860's muzzle loader to campus for a project (by the time I secured all the permissions it was too late for the project).
    Last edited by Wolfebane; 07-17-2012 at 12:20 PM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Years ago, when our youngest was going to WSU, I only remember students being prohibited from carry. As daughter was under 21 it was not an issue then for me....Answer to question #2...yes, I have, but years ago.

    However, I think the problem with UW and WSU is they have never been taken to court (a la OR and CO) on the issue. I also think U of I is about to get their panties slapped by the Idaho Supreme Court. In Idaho the original suit was about possess of a pistol in married campus housing, but ended up questioning the Regents right to regulate carry/possession at all.

    Have you ever read: http://www.guncite.com/court/state/70p609.html Has to be the shortest (ID) Supreme Court ruling ever...from 1902...good read
    Last edited by hermannr; 07-21-2012 at 02:28 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran OlGutshotWilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfebane View Post
    I did not want to risk my academic career while at Western by trying to get away with this, but as I understand it, it's like any other private property, they ask you to leave and if you refuse then it becomes a legal issue.
    WWU is a State funded University, with a Board of Trustees appointed by the Governor, and represented by the State Attorney General. I don't understand where the "private property" comes into this. I would think .290 applies here for the average citizen. I understand where the problems lie if you are a student.


    https://trustees.wwu.edu/Policies%20...07,%202012.pdf
    THE SECOND AMENDMENT: Washington didn't use his right to free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
    ---------------------------------------------
    Government is not reason; it is not eloquent -- it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
    --George Washington,
    first U.S. president

  6. #6
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlGutshotWilly View Post
    WWU is a State funded University, with a Board of Trustees appointed by the Governor, and represented by the State Attorney General. I don't understand where the "private property" comes into this. I would think .290 applies here for the average citizen. I understand where the problems lie if you are a student.


    https://trustees.wwu.edu/Policies%20...07,%202012.pdf
    That is why I decided to shortcut right through their property when I am hiking Sehome Hill or that area. They have no "authority" over me.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  7. #7
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    Open or concealed

    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
    As a father of a WWU student for the past two years I have been to the campus many times. My daughter explained campus policy was No Firearms are allowed on campus. This policy applies to all individuals who work, live, or visit the Western Washington University campus.

    http://www.wwu.edu/policies/docs/560...s%20Policy.pdf

    When I have visited the campus to deliver my daughter at the beginning of the year or pick her up at the end of the year I have always locked my pistol in my truck, not wanting to break Campus Policy too much.

    This WWU Policy states at the top of the page:

    Effective Date: December 4, 1992
    Authority: RCW 28B.35.120(12)
    Approved: Board of Trustees 8/3/90; Amended 12/4/92

    The map for campus carry states Washington as "Carry Not Statutorily Prohibited"

    RCW 9.41.290 State preemption has an effective date of 1994.

    WWU states RCW 28B.35.120(12) as the authority to ban weapons on campus as of December 4, 1992. If I understand the WAC correctly, I would conclude that WWU should be held to RCW 9.41.290 State preemption allowing Campus Carry both OC and CC by qualified individuals.

    So my questions are: 1. Can I OC on the WWU Campus and in the buildings on campus legally?
    2. Has anyone ever gone OC on the WWU Campus or any other Campus?
    ****************************
    Title 516 WAC
    Last Update: 12/9/11
    Western washington university


    WAC 516-52-020

    Firearms and dangerous weapons.
    is the controlling state administrative code for Western. Does a WAC supersede a RCW... dunno, would have to ask a lawyer.

  8. #8
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    The preemption statute states:

    "RCW 9.41.290
    State preemption.

    The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state"

    Western Washington University is part of the state of Washington government. They have been granted rule making authority. Since they are not part of the legislature, they cannot criminalize anything that is not a crime in state law. But since the statute does not reserve preemption to only the legislature of the state of Washington, WWU is perfectly within the law and their rule making authority to ban firearms on campus. What WWU cannot do is make it a crime.
    Last edited by NavyLCDR; 10-18-2012 at 05:47 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Cubex DE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    ...WWU is perfectly within the law and their rule making authority to ban firearms on campus. What WWU cannot do is make it a crime.
    What is the difference? By "banning" firearms, are they essentially making anyone carrying one a de facto trespasser?
    Jesus thought it was more important to be armed than well dressed:

    Then said He unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his
    scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.~Luke 22:36

    (Emphasis mine.)

    (Note that the word "garment" here refers to an outer cloak, equivalent to today's sport coats or
    suit jackets in that they both provided warmth and conveyed a certain level of sophistication.)

  10. #10
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
    WWU states RCW 28B.35.120(12) as the authority to ban weapons on campus
    If that interpretation were correct, it would also permit them to ban possession of books or pamphlets that the administration did not like. For that matter, they could pass a rule requiring people to submit to random strip searches.

    Obviously such is not the case for other constitutional rights, so it follows that it wouldn't be for the one they've decided to ignore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubex DE View Post
    What is the difference? By "banning" firearms, are they essentially making anyone carrying one a de facto trespasser?
    Only if they order you to leave or lock up the gun and you refuse.
    Last edited by Difdi; 10-18-2012 at 11:30 PM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Cubex DE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    Only if they order you to leave or lock up the gun and you refuse.
    So, if you carry on campus and nobody notices and tells you to leave, you aren't breaking the law? So you can carry until someone notices and asks you to leave, and it isn't a crime? I know this is how it works on private property, but this is state property here. I feel like they could somehow have you arrested without asking you to leave first, by somehow claiming you knew guns were not welcome and brought one anyway, therefore you were automatically trespassing. I'm not saying it's right, just that I wouldn't be surprised if someone tried this.
    Jesus thought it was more important to be armed than well dressed:

    Then said He unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his
    scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.~Luke 22:36

    (Emphasis mine.)

    (Note that the word "garment" here refers to an outer cloak, equivalent to today's sport coats or
    suit jackets in that they both provided warmth and conveyed a certain level of sophistication.)

  12. #12
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubex DE View Post
    So, if you carry on campus and nobody notices and tells you to leave, you aren't breaking the law? So you can carry until someone notices and asks you to leave, and it isn't a crime? I know this is how it works on private property, but this is state property here. I feel like they could somehow have you arrested without asking you to leave first, by somehow claiming you knew guns were not welcome and brought one anyway, therefore you were automatically trespassing. I'm not saying it's right, just that I wouldn't be surprised if someone tried this.
    Exactly. Violating their rule is not a crime. But if you break the rule, odds are they will ask you to leave. If you don't leave when asked, you are trespassing, which is a crime. If violating their rule were in itself a crime, it would be made null and void by state preemption.

    Making a false police report is itself a crime. Plus civil remedies for defamation.

  13. #13
    Regular Member dwordinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
    ...

    So my questions are: 1. Can I OC on the WWU Campus and in the buildings on campus legally?
    2. Has anyone ever gone OC on the WWU Campus or any other Campus?
    I open carried on EWU and WSU a few weeks ago with no problem. One student told me she didn't think students were allowed to have firearms on campus, but she didn't site or show me any documentation on that. Another student was prior military and said he was presently a cop as well as a student. He made a comment about my exercising my Second Amendment rights and approved.

    I'm no lawyer, but every state university is owned by the state. I think state preemption would take precedence over any local official trying to impose his personal preferences.
    D Wordinger, Domestic Terrorist

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