Come join us on MOC's Forum

Griffin, thats very generous of you, anyone on the fence about joining MOC would be a fool not to take you up on this offer, but not for the monetary purpose, but to find out what MOC is like on the inside. this is a good chance for those that are weary to find out what MOC is like as an official member with no risk involved, I would certainly encourage them to do so.

detroit_fan said:

That's good

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Said in the Floyd-the-Barber voice, of course.

For anyone who feels slighted by not being able to access the exciting, mysterious members only section of the MOC forums, here is a snapshot of the recents threads from 3 of the sub forums. As you can see, the topics are riveting. The 17 other sub forums are FREE to anyone who creates a forum acct. If you don't feel MOC's forums are worth visiting that is your prerogative, but that does not change the fact there are FREE.

New Karma system in place
Started by JSteinmetz « 1 2 3 ... 7 »
90 Replies
653 Views Today at 03:47:33 PM
by METL

Michigan Open Carry, Inc. - 2012 Annual Membership Meeting
Started by TheQ
14 Replies
226 Views July 13, 2012, 08:59:44 AM
by TheQ

Changes in the Board of Directors
Started by TheQ
12 Replies
120 Views February 19, 2012, 10:04:45 AM
by Onnie

Teamspeak Server Upgrade
Started by northofnowhere
0 Replies
25 Views September 27, 2011, 03:30:10 PM
by northofnowhere

Website and Forums Outage - 4.21.2011
Started by northofnowhere
0 Replies
22 Views April 18, 2011, 11:25:23 PM
by northofnowhere

New Easy Method For MOC Membership
Started by northofnowhere
1 Replies
58 Views February 01, 2011, 02:19:08 PM
by northofnowhere

MOC IT Projects
Started by viperar15-member
2 Replies
95 Views February 01, 2011, 02:15:44 PM
by northofnowhere

Data restoration
Started by northofnowhere
0 Replies
29 Views December 14, 2010, 11:07:46 PM
by northofnowhere

Forums Upgrade
Started by northofnowhere
0 Replies
27 Views December 13, 2010, 11:44:45 AM
by northofnowhere

Special Meeting - Adoption of by-laws
Started by sprinklerguy28
1 Replies
53 Views September 21, 2010, 11:55:48 PM
by sprinklerguy28

Michigan Open Carry, Inc. website now has a link to our Facebook page.
Started by anetsprungen

VP Candidate Nomination Withdrawal
Started by TheQ « 1 2 »
20 Replies
116 Views Today at 05:31:06 PM
by venator

MCRGO on accidental exposure of your concealed gun
Started by TheQ « 1 2 »
21 Replies
130 Views Today at 01:56:24 PM
by hamaneggs

Tapatalk
Started by drtodd
4 Replies
41 Views Today at 11:00:39 AM
by drtodd

Membership Re-new?
Started by Greyh Seer
4 Replies
46 Views Today at 09:28:58 AM
by METL

Need tri-folds
Started by Greyh Seer
7 Replies
69 Views July 12, 2012, 02:56:31 AM
by northofnowhere

Open Carry in a School - Issue at Utica Schools
Started by PaulC « 1 2 »
16 Replies
231 Views June 25, 2012, 10:11:40 PM
by TheQ

Candidate for Vice President
Started by TheQ
11 Replies
124 Views June 14, 2012, 05:20:29 PM
by Nikoelnutto

Candidate for Treasurer
Started by autosurgeon
9 Replies
127 Views June 08, 2012, 11:08:06 AM
by autosurgeon

MOVED: Board Elections
Started by autosurgeon
0 Replies
9 Views June 08, 2012, 12:37:35 AM
by autosurgeon

MOVED: Candidate for MOC Secretary: Randy Davis
Started by Onnie
0 Replies
11 Views June 08, 2012, 12:26:40 AM
by Onnie

Editing posts
Started by GambitofTroy
1 Replies
34 Views March 21, 2012, 11:32:01 AM
by TheQ

Found a new shirt idea
Started by AAMitch
6 Replies
97 Views March 20, 2012, 09:27:15 AM
by GambitofTroy

MOC organizing as A 501(c)(4)
Started by DetroitBiker « 1 2 »



Open carry
Started by duff1
0 Replies
52 Views October 30, 2011, 08:43:14 PM
by duff1

Downriver is an untapped / underutilized area for MOC
Started by Glock9mmOldStyle
10 Replies
117 Views September 06, 2011, 12:05:18 PM
by Greyh Seer

Lansing Picnic not on calendar?
Started by Greyh Seer
1 Replies
24 Views July 19, 2011, 03:53:10 PM
by autosurgeon

OC Question Thread Stickies
Started by Greyh Seer
1 Replies
21 Views July 19, 2011, 03:52:26 PM
by autosurgeon

Membership card
Started by Bronson « 1 2 »
22 Replies
155 Views July 06, 2011, 09:43:53 PM
by Greyh Seer

Any decision on new logo?
Started by Warchild « 1 2 »
15 Replies
140 Views July 04, 2011, 11:37:29 PM
by Glock9mmOldStyle

Link to Home Website from Forums
Started by Greyh Seer
3 Replies
33 Views June 30, 2011, 01:23:55 PM
by jeffsayers

Forum Traffic
Started by Greyh Seer
5 Replies
46 Views June 30, 2011, 07:07:47 AM
by anetsprungen

Comments ?
Started by Master Control « 1 2 3 4 »
48 Replies
221 Views June 28, 2011, 05:00:08 PM
by Greyh Seer

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Fascinating stuff there...

There is more post in "General Discussion" (alone) than the three members only areas combined.

one post caught my eye, do we have a functioning TS server that is actually used?

Yes. It's used, at a minimum, for our monthly board meeting.

Hell, I'm a paid Charter Member of MOC and I don't even go into the Member's areas of the forum. Well, not usually anyway. I just "read new posts" and look at the ones that might be interesting. Rarely are those in the Member's area.

Bronson

stainless1911 said:

I'd rather not put up with Pat.

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+1

Michigander said:

Just like most other organizations. And I find that to be a good idea! As I've said, I have no problems with donating to MOC regularly, including now, for those issues which are important. I encourage everyone to donate to gun rights organizations which are working for their rights. Though scarred by some trouble, MOC has a history of doing some great work.

In case I was confusing, my apologies, allow me to be more clear. The issue I have, is with a forum that shuts people out after they've paid once. The payment, in terms of a forum, should be for verifying that the person is serious about the issue at hand. Having a closed forum without reoccurring payment, well that's an incentive to get people donating, and it blocks the free flow of sometimes important information. If someones membership lapsed due to them being away, as with me, or perhaps because of economic hardship, the flow of incoming or outgoing information should not be denied them. Especially for a non profit org. I don't care who's fault that is, at what juncture MOC started this, it's wrong, end of story.

You said you wanted suggestions, and in case I'm not being clear enough with my inferences, please make it a one time paid and good to go forever system for the forum, but keep every other benefit of membership dependent on dues payment. Solely internal issues, such as voting, can be taken care of via email, and do not require forum use.

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Take this for what it's worth....



I have never, I mean -NEVER- belonged to a paid member forum that allowed you continued access to the paid area after your subscription time has ended. You are booted AUTOMATICALLY by the computer. Not by someone who decides who is cool or deserving or good enough. It's a time and date stamp. 1 year from the time you paid, if not renewed, your access will be denied.


Your argument for not renewing is so incredibly infantile I would venture a guess that maybe they don't want you back. I'm not saying that as an insult. Seriously. I've been a member to at least 15 online forums. Same thing. Don't pay your dues, you get cut off. Don't pay your cable, you get cut off. Don't pay the power, you get cut off. I can't even fathom how you could blame MOC leadership for you getting booted and not "feeling special" because of it. I would venture a guess that if Q didn't re-up his membership and wasn't a super-mod, HIS access would get whacked.


If that's the best you got as a reason you don't want to contribute to a local group that clearly is taking steps to further gun rights.... well, that's pretty pathetic that you won't stand with your brothers by paying just over a nickle per day. You're really going to piss and moan about spending 5.5 cents per day for 365 days?




GRIFFIN: You rock for your offer... Thanks for taking a few for the team. Very nice of you.

HKcarrier said:

I have never, I mean -NEVER- belonged to a paid member forum that allowed you continued access to the paid area after your subscription time has ended. You are booted AUTOMATICALLY by the computer. Not by someone who decides who is cool or deserving or good enough. It's a time and date stamp. 1 year from the time you paid, if not renewed, your access will be denied.
Your argument for not renewing is so incredibly infantile I would venture a guess that maybe they don't want you back. I'm not saying that as an insult. Seriously. I've been a member to at least 15 online forums. Same thing. Don't pay your dues, you get cut off. Don't pay your cable, you get cut off. Don't pay the power, you get cut off. I can't even fathom how you could blame MOC leadership for you getting booted and not "feeling special" because of it. I would venture a guess that if Q didn't re-up his membership and wasn't a super-mod, HIS access would get whacked.

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I'm backing out of this one, as far as personal opinions go, and have PM'ed Q with the remainder of my personal thoughts on the issue.

Although, you may want to reread some posts... it seems clear to me that "feeling special" was never the issue.

However:

HKcarrier said:

If that's the best you got as a reason you don't want to contribute to a local group that clearly is taking steps to further gun rights.... well, that's pretty pathetic that you won't stand with your brothers by paying just over a nickle per day. You're really going to piss and moan about spending 5.5 cents per day for 365 days?

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Knowing what Michigander has done for gun rights in this state, as you seem not to, I feel the following merits mentioning. He was, quite literally, at the very first open carry meeting, organized through OCDO before MOC was even a thought, at the time when it was the most dangerous to do so. One of the people who started the movement, and likewise MOC itself. As such, any assertion about how he does not or will not 'stand with [his] brothers' is a falsification.

I'm not saying this means 'oh god revel in his glory' or anything like that, but it does make your above-quoted comment rather misinformed.

Yep, that is a pretty remarkable comment, for the additional reason that hkcarrier quoted me saying I had no problems donating. When you additionally consider that I said I'd be happy to work with MOC on projects that I'd be useful on, as I've done extensively in the past, hkcarriers comment seems even more off.

griffin said:

Said in the Floyd-the-Barber voice, of course.

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Of course, everything i say on here is intended to be said in Floyd's voice

You are very generous for your offer, that was a cool thing to do.

Evil Creamsicle said:

I'm backing out of this one, as far as personal opinions go, and have PM'ed Q with the remainder of my personal thoughts on the issue.

Although, you may want to reread some posts... it seems clear to me that "feeling special" was never the issue.

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Michigander said:

Between pat, and an organization I helped found having a forum which was deemed too good for me, I can't see much reason to post there anymore, or renew my membership as I had been planning on when I returned back in April. Not that I'm whining that I deserve special treatment, just that the style of give us money or you're not cool enough doesn't work for me. It is the one and only forum I've ever been a part of which requires annual dues for access.

As a matter of fact, Phil, please feel free to erase my profile. It won't be getting used.

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Seems like a "cool kid" and "feeling special" thing to me... he's mad because he didn't get an exception to the rule. He isn't "cool enough" to be around just because he was "a founding father" and they still "want his money".... So his last line is "i'm taking my ball and going home"...

Evil Creamsicle said:

Knowing what Michigander has done for gun rights in this state, as you seem not to, I feel the following merits mentioning. He was, quite literally, at the very first open carry meeting, organized through OCDO before MOC was even a thought, at the time when it was the most dangerous to do so. One of the people who started the movement, and likewise MOC itself. As such, any assertion about how he does not or will not 'stand with [his] brothers' is a falsification.

I'm not saying this means 'oh god revel in his glory' or anything like that, but it does make your above-quoted comment rather misinformed.

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I thank the people who started taking the initiative to get this thing rolling... and I understand what that took and how I can easily OC becuase of their efforts, but I have to ask: What good is someone who made great strides in the past, but isn't willing to help continue that course and even at times works against the grain?

Michigander said:

I will happily donate to cause specific funds such as the CADL case, and perhaps even work with MOC on projects if I am ever asked to do so. But the forum, or membership? Nope. Not as it stands.

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Wow... "I'll donate money, but I won't donate money for my membership." Where does he think the dues go? "I'll give money, but I don't want to be associated with you"... huh? What kind of image does that give off for the anti's to gobble up?

Who is he? The guy who started CLSD who screwed up SB 59 by opposing it so the anti's could say "SEE, EVEN THE GUNNIES DON"T LIKE THIS BILL!!!

All the accomplishments someone has made in the past don't mean much when they refuse to stand alongside people currently and keep the ship on its course...

Yep, you're looking for a ******* contest. You are merely trying to twist my words around and bringing up past grudges because you feel like bitching. I frankly don't care. As it stood in the beginning, when most people thought open carrying was nuts, I don't especially care what you think now. I'm going to say what I mean, and your whining at me will not in any way inhibit that.

For the record, since you brought it up, I did not start CLSD. I am not now nor have I ever been a member of CLSD. I am not really sure how you came to that conclusion.

I don't post very often, just read the threads for the most part. I have also looked at the MOC forum. One thing both have in common are infighting. I wish it was different but it is not. We are our own worst enemies aren't we?

HKcarrier said:

I have never, I mean -NEVER- belonged to a paid member forum that allowed you continued access to the paid area after your subscription time has ended.

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I have studied aikido for nearly 16 years. In order to hold rank and teach in my particular style of aikido one must be a paying member of the organization. I have been since the beginning. I have worked to spread the teachings of my style and volunteer every year to introduce aikido to a group of blind kids. I am personal friends with the owners of the organization but on the few occasions when I've let my membership lapse I stopped receiving the official newsletters, communications, etc., and THAT IS AS IT SHOULD BE.

The world is pay-for-play. If I can't be a grown-up and meet my end of the deal why on earth would I expect them to provide me, for free, what other's must pay for. The hubris in that idea astounds me.

Bronson

Bronson said:

but on the few occasions when I've let my membership lapse I stopped receiving the official newsletters, communications, etc., and THAT IS AS IT SHOULD BE.

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I do believe that I've made clear, as has everyone else, that we're all in agreement about this. My standing concern, apart from pat, which is in question here, is with the hidden forums.

If everyone else is content with the system as it stands, good! Have fun, I don't object, apart from not having any interest in being involved.

RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.

Bronson said:

...provide me, for free, what other's must pay for. The hubris in that idea astounds me.

Click to expand...

Michigander said:

The reason why I helped found MOC was to create an organizational structure which could better disseminate information. Creating a forum which only paid members can see is fine, a good idea even. But a paid forum which requires a reoccurring dues payment to access, well that wasn't in the scope of interests of anyone I knew when MOC got off the ground. The entire reason why I specifically wanted the forum to be started, and indeed pushed for it hard, was because there weren't any controls over this forum, because for quite a while mike and john were the only mods on OCDO. It made this place into a mess.

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Michigander said:

You said you wanted suggestions, and in case I'm not being clear enough with my inferences, please make it a one time paid and good to go forever system for the forum, but keep every other benefit of membership dependent on dues payment. Solely internal issues, such as voting, can be taken care of via email, and do not require forum use.

Click to expand...

One of these things is not like the others. Just saying.

Michigander said:

I do believe that I've made clear, as has everyone else, that we're all in agreement about this. My standing concern, apart from pat, which is in question here, is with the hidden forums.

If everyone else is content with the system as it stands, good! Have fun, I don't object, apart from not having any interest in being involved.

Click to expand...

I think you, too, are missing the point. You are not arguing the same point they are arguing.

You are saying: The forum should be this way for everyone

They are thinking you are saying: This forum should be free for me because I'm special.



There is a clear difference, and debating doesn't make sense if both sides are not on the same page about what is being debated.

Evil Creamsicle said:

You are saying: The forum should be this way for everyone

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I'm saying it shouldn't. It should be tied to your annual membership, just as it currently is. If you are not a member you should not get access to voting info, internal member issues, meeting minutes, etc.

A plan that allows for someone to pay a one time fee for full forum access is idiotic. It would allow that person to let their MOC membership lapse but they would still have full access to internal member business.

If you're not a member you're not entitled to the member's only information...period.

Bronson