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Thread: Question about dog attack.

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    Question about dog attack.

    Where does the law stand on someone who is carrying and gets attacked by a dog inside city limits? Are you allowed to shoot the dog?

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=11385

    State law reference— Criminal damage to property, KRS ch. 512.
    Sec. 17-3. - Discharging weapons, throwing objects, etc.
    (a)
    It shall be unlawful for any person to shoot, throw or discharge any gun, pistol, rifle, missile, arrow, bullet or other object in such a manner as to endanger life, limb or property in the city.
    (b)
    It shall be unlawful for any person to permit a violation of subsection (a) to occur on any premises under his control.
    (c)
    The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:
    (1)
    Members of the armed forces of the United States or the National Guard while they are engaged in the performance of their official duties.
    (2)
    Law enforcement officers while they are engaged in the performance of their official duties as such.
    (3)
    Persons while they are exercising their legal rights of self-defense, defense of property or defense of others. [emphasis added]
    (4)
    Any person who lawfully discharges a firearm within an indoor weapons training and recreational facility that meets generally accepted industry design, construction and operation standards and complies with all applicable federal, state and local laws and regulations.
    (Code 1955, § 13-51.1; Ord. No. 61-2002, § 1, 10-15-2002)
    Presuming you qualify for the exemption note above you should not run afoul of this law.

    FYI - MuniCode is a wonderful resource. You might put in in your bookmarks.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member Comm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOSJosh View Post
    Where does the law stand on someone who is carrying and gets attacked by a dog inside city limits? Are you allowed to shoot the dog?
    I asked this same question a long time ago, and got several different answers. Most said to use pepper spray, and a few said it was ok to use your gun.. only if the dog attacked you or the someone else. But what if the dog has your gun hand in his mouth??

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    what if the dog has your gun hand in his mouth??
    1) Real quick, learn how to draw off-hand?
    2) Draw your backup SD tool?

    3) If the dog actually has your hand in his mouth, shove your fingers/hand down his throat & choke him; he's expecting you to try to pull away, not attack, & wants to be able to breathe

    4) Same as dealing with a human predator: kick/knee his belly & groin (repeatedly), put a thumb in his eyes (repeatedly), hit his nose (repeatedly), maybe try kicking sideways through a leg joint (easier on a human)
    [On a human I'd also say punch the throat, but it's harder on a dog.]
    Last edited by MKEgal; 07-18-2012 at 01:23 PM.

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    I'd be very very careful, just for the simple fact that a lot of dogs may seem aggressive but are really just warning you that they're scared. If the dog is frothing at the mouth, snapping and lunging at you, then by all means... if it's running after you and barking, turn around, don't make eye contact but set your shoulders and stand your ground. Chances are the dog will maintain its distance. Please do everything possible to avoid shooting someones pet. While it's the owners responsibility to keep them in their yard, or on a leash, accidents happen and shooting a dog or any animal really ought to be given the same consideration as shooting a person, imho.

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    Best be safe...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzzZEuKHhBI


    Dogs are not people, they are just property ... but anytime you discharge a firearm expect the evil eye to be upon you .. if cops show up say nothing...leave your story to the jury (they are going to arrest you anyway)

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    If it one of these Click image for larger version. 

Name:	small dog.jpeg 
Views:	74 
Size:	6.2 KB 
ID:	8871 I'd think twice, maybe even thrice about bustin a cap.

    On the other hand, if it is one of these Click image for larger version. 

Name:	large dog.jpeg 
Views:	76 
Size:	9.1 KB 
ID:	8872 I'd be bustin a couple of caps.

    Cops, on the other other hand, make no distinction between the two.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwaterous View Post
    shooting a dog or any animal really ought to be given the same consideration as shooting a person
    ?? Is this just a comment about the shooting of a gun, or is this animals-are-the-same-as-people stuff?
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    ?? Is this just a comment about the shooting of a gun, or is this animals-are-the-same-as-people stuff?
    Or is this that some people are the same as dogs .... I'm getting dizzy ...

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    If it's a big dog bites, the dog is getting shot. If it's a little dog and it bites, it'll probably get smooshed under my boot or I can do like a co-worker did when someone's little yappy dog bit his kid. He picked the dog up and snapped it's neck.

    Yes it's legal to defend yourself and others from dog attacks.

    As for the previous comment of "you're going to be arrested anyway", nope, this is Kentucky. Some things just deserve to be shot.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    The most important question........is the dog armed??? But seriously, read "KRS 525.130 Cruelty to animals in the second degree -- Exemptions" for a better legal answer...And I believe that this would over ride any city laws in regards to the discharge of a firearm.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwaterous View Post
    shooting a dog or any animal really ought to be given the same consideration as shooting a person, imho.
    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    ?? Is this just a comment about the shooting of a gun, or is this animals-are-the-same-as-people stuff?
    I agree. I don't feel that I have a problem taking a life (of anything), but I want a damn good reason to.

    There has been many nuisance dogs around that I would have loved to shoot, but I solved the problem a more humane way. I have only shot one dog, and it had the fear of God of me. It ran my girlfriend back in the house twice though, and no one should have to fear going out in their yard. So taken that into consideration, and that there is a two year old around here every now and then, I shot it. I caught it in the yard one morning, when nobody was around and I had a clean shot and I killed it.

    I didn't like it, but I lost no sleep to it.

    The real question that should be asked though, when should you draw on an aggressive dog? Like was said, most are just telling you to stay away and will not bite. But most do get close enough before they stop to be considered a threat.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FOSJosh View Post
    Where does the law stand on someone who is carrying and gets attacked by a dog inside city limits? Are you allowed to shoot the dog?
    If you fear that the dog is going to harm you or another then yes you are able to defend yourself. This just happened here in Ashland when a man killed his neighbors dog because it was on his property and had acted agressive to his children before. There were no charges filed because the dog was on his property, and he believed the dog was dangerous. If an animal is endangering your domesticated animals you can also use lethal force against the attacking animals.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Just be sure you are actually being attacked.

    Are you suggesting that we carry a "throw down gun" in case a dog attacks us? After the dog is shot, toss the gun on the dog and say "I feared for my life"?


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    Here you go:

    258.235 Authority to kill or seize dog -- Return by court to owner of vicious dog -- Liability for damage -- Proceeding by person attacked by dog -- Disposition of dog after seizure -- Powers of animal control officer -- Vicious dog not to run at large.
    (1) Any person, without liability, may kill or seize any dog which is observed attacking any person.
    (2) Any livestock owner or his agent, without liability, may kill any dog trespassing on that owner's property and observed in the act of pursuing or wounding his livestock.

    Should add this: Definition of "attack."
    (6) "Attack" means a dog's attempt to bite or successful bite of a human being. This definition shall not apply to a dog's attack of a person who has illegally entered or is trespassing on the dog owner's property in violation of KRS 511.060, 511.070, 511.080, or 511.090;

    Definition of "livestock.":
    (15) "Livestock" means poultry; ratites; and cervine, bovine, ovine, porcine, caprine, or equine animals that are privately owned and raised in a confined area for breeding stock, food, fiber, or other products;
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 07-18-2012 at 10:18 PM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    Here you go:

    258.235 Authority to kill or seize dog -- Return by court to owner of vicious dog -- Liability for damage -- Proceeding by person attacked by dog -- Disposition of dog after seizure -- Powers of animal control officer -- Vicious dog not to run at large.
    (1) Any person, without liability, may kill or seize any dog which is observed attacking any person.
    (2) Any livestock owner or his agent, without liability, may kill any dog trespassing on that owner's property and observed in the act of pursuing or wounding his livestock.

    Should add this: Definition of "attack."
    (6) "Attack" means a dog's attempt to bite or successful bite of a human being. This definition shall not apply to a dog's attack of a person who has illegally entered or is trespassing on the dog owner's property in violation of KRS 511.060, 511.070, 511.080, or 511.090;

    Definition of "livestock.":
    (15) "Livestock" means poultry; ratites; and cervine, bovine, ovine, porcine, caprine, or equine animals that are privately owned and raised in a confined area for breeding stock, food, fiber, or other products;
    What about cats? Why single out dogs? Cats are nasty critters.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    What about cats? Why single out dogs? Cats are nasty critters.
    Cats are generally not regulated because politicians are afraid to anger the cat ladies via enacting a license law or a spay/neuter law or a maximum number allowed law. That being the case, cats are not "property" under the law and therefore there is no penalty under civil law for destroying them. OTOH, since a dog is property there needed to be exemptions carved out for the destroying of someone else's property - or else no matter why you would be liable to pay the owner the value of the thing.

    Yes, the nuances of the law are fascinating - if you don't mind having your mind cluttered up with trivia like the above.

    BTW - check your state conservation laws. You might be able to get a permit to kill cats if they are preying on songbirds - especially migratory songbirds. (More trivia clutter.)

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    You don't have to be a card carrying liberal member of some fantastically pathetic and hypocritical organization such as PETA to have some concern for life. Let's not be ridiculous; if I had to choose between saving a human or a dog, as much as it would pain me to not be able to include both I would go with the human. Now that we've got that silly argument out of the way since we weren't talking about making such a choice in the first place, if I had the option to save a dogs life (with no other counterpart in question) I would not hesitate. A life is a life, and arrogance has no place in responsibility. If you think there comes a level where you don't have to give pulling the trigger the exact same consideration as any other time, then please by all means, sell your guns.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    My little village makes no distinction regarding the species of nuisance animals. Nor does it differentiate between species for dangerous, vicious, or ferocious animals.....except Pit Bulls and their close cousins.

    No, just trying to convince a municipal judge regarding a vicious and dangerous tabby that has been terrorizing my curtain climbers.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwaterous View Post
    If you think there comes a level where you don't have to give pulling the trigger the exact same consideration as any other time, then please by all means, sell your guns.
    I don't blame you, you've probably been bombarded with this stuff your whole life. I would guess you have an aversion to hunting? What about killing rodents that keep eating your crops? What about squirrels that like to chew on rubber hoses on SUVs? What about rats? Roaches?
    Does the lif-is-a-life drivel apply to spiders or only cute living things?
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    As someone who has worked & owned the so-called vicious breeds most of his life, I would say most people are not qualified to know when a true attack is happening. 99.9% of most dog barking and/or charging in either warning or pure BLUFF. As long as you stand your ground, don't run & do NOT make any aggressive movements yourself you should be fine.

    For true attacks, pepper spray usually works GREAT. The one noted and IMPORTANT exception I would make would be in a multiple dog or "PACK" attack. In this case you really should be prepared to shoot the pack leaders.

    -

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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I don't blame you, you've probably been bombarded with this stuff your whole life. I would guess you have an aversion to hunting? What about killing rodents that keep eating your crops? What about squirrels that like to chew on rubber hoses on SUVs? What about rats? Roaches?
    Does the lif-is-a-life drivel apply to spiders or only cute living things?
    I'm sorry, I didn't realize you had something to prove. I'll assist.

    No, I have not been bombarded with this stuff my entire life, unless you consider being raised with a respect for all living things as "bombarded".

    I have absolutely no aversion to hunting. I would prefer to hunt and farm then to buy from a supermarket if I could switch 100%.

    Not a darn thing wrong with handling pests. If I have a large pest I can trap and remove, I will. If I have a plague, I will take any means necessary up to and including lethal force.

    You bet that "drivel" applies to spiders. Spiders help keep pests down, so they deserve to survive as well. I don't even like it when I feed roaches to my reptiles, but I accept that it's what they were raised for.

    Anything else that will aid you in measuring your...?
    Last edited by mwaterous; 07-19-2012 at 01:47 PM. Reason: removed an extraneous "it" from middle of sentence

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    thankfully

    We now have our entire property fenced with a locked gate on the driveway. NC has some stupid laws making the shooting of a dog illegal unless it is by a police officer or in self-defense. BUT, within the fenced yard, the dog is dead legally...same as a home invasion.

    Not that I am looking to shoot someone's pet, but if we are out in the yard and a dog intrudes, there is NO chance the dog will survive with my 4 children playing in the area.

    There have been numerous situations with me and the wife walking of a dog charging, and it usually just takes standing my ground, put the wife behind me, raising the maglite, a loud deep shout and and being completely ready to club the dog. Never had a problem further than that. (fingers crossed) But, now with OC, the 9mm will be in the other hand.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    That's another angle on the situation; I'd shoot anything, including a unicorn, if it was threatening children. Bam. Right below the horn. But I wouldn't shoot it if it was barking from the other side of a fence, and that's the difference I was trying to make earlier. Just be sure it's a threat. It's really not that much of a threat to your masculinity to do so.

  25. #25
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwaterous View Post
    I'm sorry, I didn't realize you had something to prove.
    Anything else that will aid you in measuring your...?
    Nothing to prove. I just enjoy reading people's absurd stammering explanations about how a tick's life is just an important as mine.
    It's usually good for a laugh. Thanks, you did not disappoint.

    Interesting you prefer to hunt. Make sure you give pulling the trigger on a deer the same consideration as if were a person...
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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