Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 30

Thread: Open carry in national forest?

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    2

    Smile Open carry in national forest?

    Hello,
    I am going camping in a couple of days at Dolomite campground which is in a national forest and due to the wild animals I wanted to know if open carry was allowed for the safety of my family and I.

    LINK

    I apologize for any mistakes, this forum does not seem to like android phones.

    Thank you,
    Jay
    Last edited by rce; 07-18-2012 at 11:33 AM.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Clark County, NV-----------------------Mohave County, AZ
    Posts
    5,098
    National Forests have always followed state laws in regards to firearms possession. Just remember that federal facilities (like visitor centers) are forbidden by federal law. But the campgrounds and forests are good to go.
    Blue & Gold Firearms Training; Clark County, NV
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  3. #3
    Regular Member Frantic84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    183

    Question

    I know this probably has no merit because it is still considered a federal building but "This facility is operated by American Land & Leisure" a private entity.
    just thought that it was kind of interesting. I wonder what legal power they have to enforce any of said laws.
    remove handgun registration in Clark County,NV

    2nd amendment in modern English: The people have the right to own and carry firearms, and it may not be violated because a well-equipped Militia is necessary for a State to remain secure and free.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Clark County, NV-----------------------Mohave County, AZ
    Posts
    5,098
    Quote Originally Posted by Frantic84 View Post
    ... it is still considered a federal building but ...
    Which building are we talking about?
    Blue & Gold Firearms Training; Clark County, NV
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Clark County, NV-----------------------Mohave County, AZ
    Posts
    5,098
    I think I remember reading the the "federal facilities" refers to buildings where federal employees are working. Such a building operated by a private entity may not be a guns free zone. I'm sure someone else here knows for sure while I do some research.
    Blue & Gold Firearms Training; Clark County, NV
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Bristol TN/VA
    Posts
    3

    Virginia Law

    I know here in Virginia you cannot open carry in a National Forest unless it is for lawful hunting. Unfortunate, but that is the way it is. Need a permit/license to carry for defensive purposes.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Frantic84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    183
    here is what I found

    Federal Property Law & Legal Definition
    20 USCS § 107e defines "federal property" as any building, land, or other real property owned, leased, or occupied by any department, agency, or instrumentality of the United States (including the Department of Defense and the United States Postal Service), or any other instrumentality wholly owned by the United States, or by any department or agency of the District of Columbia or any territory or possession of the United States.

    Pursuant to 20 USCS § 7713 (5) [Title 20. Education; Chapter 70. Strengthening and Improvement of Elementary and Secondary Schools; Impact Aid],

    “(A) In general. Except as provided in subparagraphs (B) through (F), the term "Federal property" means real property that is not subject to taxation by any State or any political subdivision of a State due to Federal agreement, law, or policy, and that is-- (i) owned by the United States or leased by the United States from another entity; (ii) (I) held in trust by the United States for individual Indians or Indian tribes; (II) held by individual Indians or Indian tribes subject to restrictions on alienation imposed by the United States; (III) conveyed at any time under the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act [43 USCS §§ 1601 et seq.] to a Native individual, Native group, or village or regional corporation; (IV) public land owned by the United States that is designated for the sole use and benefit of individual Indians or Indian tribes; or (V) used for low-rent housing, as described in paragraph (10), that is located on land described in subclause (I), (II), (III), or (IV) of this clause or on land that met one of those descriptions immediately before such property's use for such housing; (iii) (I) part of a low-rent housing project assisted under the United States Housing Act of 1937 [42 USCS §§ 1437 et seq.]; (II) used to provide housing for homeless children at closed military installations pursuant to section 501 of the Stewart B. McKinney Homeless Assistance Act [McKinney-Vento Homeless Assistance Act] [42 USCS § 11411]; or (III) used for affordable housing assisted under the Native American Housing Assistance and Self-Determination Act of 1996; or (iv) owned by a foreign government or by an international organization.

    (B) Schools providing flight training to members of air force. The term "Federal property" includes, so long as not subject to taxation by any State or any political subdivision of a State, and whether or not that tax exemption is due to Federal agreement, law, or policy, any school providing flight training to members of the Air Force under contract with the Air Force at an airport owned by a State or political subdivision of a State.

    (C) Non-Federal easements, leases, licenses, permits, improvements, and certain other real property. The term "Federal property" includes, whether or not subject to taxation by a State or a political subdivision of a State-- (i) any non-Federal easement, lease, license, permit, or other such interest in Federal property as otherwise described in this paragraph, but not including any non-Federal fee-simple interest; (ii) any improvement on Federal property as otherwise described in this paragraph; and (iii) real property that, immediately before its sale or transfer to a non-Federal party, was owned by the United States and otherwise qualified as Federal property described in this paragraph, but only for one year beyond the end of the fiscal year of such sale or transfer.

    (D) Certain postal service property and pipelines and utility lines. Notwithstanding any other provision of this paragraph, the term "Federal property" does not include-- (i) any real property under the jurisdiction of the United States Postal Service that is used primarily for the provision of postal services; or (ii) pipelines and utility lines.

    (E) Property with respect to which state or local tax revenues may not be expended, allocated, or available for free public education. Notwithstanding any other provision of this paragraph, "Federal property" does not include any property on which children reside that is otherwise described in this paragraph if-- (i) no tax revenues of the State or of any political subdivision of the State may be expended for the free public education of children who reside on that Federal property; or (ii) no tax revenues of the State are allocated or available for the free public education of such children.

    (F) Property located in the State of Oklahoma owned by Indian housing authority for low-income housing. The term "Federal property" includes any real property located in the State of Oklahoma that-- (i) is owned by an Indian housing authority and used for low-income housing (including housing assisted under or authorized by the Native American Housing Assistance and Self-Determination Act of 1996); and (ii) at any time-- (I) was designated by treaty as tribal land; or (II) satisfied the definition of Federal property under section 403(1)(A) of the Act of September 30, 1950 (Public Law 874, 81st Congress) [20 USCS § 244(1)(A)] (as such Act was in effect on the day preceding the date of enactment of the Improving America's Schools Act of 1994 [enacted Oct. 20, 1994]).”



    ref -http://http://definitions.uslegal.co...eral-property/
    Last edited by Frantic84; 07-18-2012 at 05:33 PM.
    remove handgun registration in Clark County,NV

    2nd amendment in modern English: The people have the right to own and carry firearms, and it may not be violated because a well-equipped Militia is necessary for a State to remain secure and free.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Granite State of Mind
    Posts
    4,311
    Quote Originally Posted by Frantic84 View Post
    here is what I found

    Federal Property Law & Legal Definition
    20 USCS § 107e defines "federal property" as any building, land, or other real property owned, leased, or occupied by any department, agency, or instrumentality of the United States (including the Department of Defense and the United States Postal Service), or any other instrumentality wholly owned by the United States, or by any department or agency of the District of Columbia or any territory or possession of the United States.
    "Federal property" is not the phrase we're looking for. It is "federal facilities", which is not the same thing at all.

    18 USC § 930 - Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities
    g) As used in this section:
    (1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Frantic84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    183
    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    "Federal property" is not the phrase we're looking for. It is "federal facilities", which is not the same thing at all.

    18 USC § 930 - Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities
    g) As used in this section:
    (1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
    so the real (TEST) question here is if it is operated/maintained by a private entity with they pull the federal building card? most likely. will a LEO hassle you? you bet! Will it stand in court? I would hope not.
    remove handgun registration in Clark County,NV

    2nd amendment in modern English: The people have the right to own and carry firearms, and it may not be violated because a well-equipped Militia is necessary for a State to remain secure and free.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    2

    Talking

    I think lawmakers intentionally make laws as convoluted as possible so that citizens don't know what the hell is going on.

    Thank you for all your help guys, I really appreciate it. I guess I will wear my sidearm and if I get hassled I will just remove it.

    -Jay

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    1114 Edison Glen Ter
    Posts
    1
    Wise choice Jay, government will play its dirty politics and mislead people. We need to be more aware of the situations and act accordingly wise. I would prefer rental homes in the forest and get the taste of real action.
    Last edited by bettyjmaar; 08-01-2012 at 12:29 AM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    381
    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    18 USC § 930 - Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities
    g) As used in this section:
    (1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
    Also don't use the bathroom while carrying

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member The Big Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Henderson, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    1,812
    Quote Originally Posted by Rollbar View Post
    Also don't use the bathroom while carrying

    I don't think that what they do in the bathroom could be construed as "performing their official duties". Well, on second thought, they are government workers.

    TBG
    Article 1, Section 11, #1 of the Nevada Constitution: Every citizen has the right to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use ..

    Life member GOA and NRA. Member SAF, NAGR, & former member NVFAC.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Black Rock City/Nevada
    Posts
    328
    Quote Originally Posted by Rollbar View Post
    Also don't use the bathroom while carrying
    FUD/bovine excrement

    1st National Forest are not National Parks.
    2nd that whole no carry in the bathroom has been repeatedly proven false yet some people insist on throwing it out there.
    3rd the building must be posted in a conspicuous manner.
    4th yes, you CAN oc in nat forest in Nevada, however you may be subject to target shooting restrictions due to high fire dangers.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Pointy end and slightly to the left
    Posts
    1,223
    Last summer I was up at mount Charleston camping. OCed in the campground and in the upper lodge. No one said a word.

  16. #16
    Guest
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    ,
    Posts
    396
    2A
    Last edited by OC-moto450r; 08-02-2012 at 04:15 PM.

  17. #17
    Super Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    N. Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    28,576
    Don't confuse National Park Service (NPS) land with National Forests - two different animals.

    NPS follows state law except for "facilities" whereas National Forest allows personal carry only during hunting season.
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Clark County, NV-----------------------Mohave County, AZ
    Posts
    5,098
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    ...National Forest allows personal carry only during hunting season.
    Can you cite that for NV, please?
    Blue & Gold Firearms Training; Clark County, NV
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Las Vegas NV, ,
    Posts
    1,575
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    National Forest allows personal carry only during hunting season.
    +1 on the cite. As a mod you should no better than to throw something out with out a cite.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Pointy end and slightly to the left
    Posts
    1,223
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Don't confuse National Park Service (NPS) land with National Forests - two different animals.

    NPS follows state law except for "facilities" whereas National Forest allows personal carry only during hunting season.
    Nevada has an open season on Jack Rabbit any legal weapon. So it is always hunting season in Nevada.

    NDOW Nevada Division of Wildlife has an awesome web page. All you need to know on hunting, fishing and trapping.
    Last edited by 28kfps; 08-11-2012 at 04:34 PM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Las Vegas NV, ,
    Posts
    1,575
    Quote Originally Posted by 28kfps View Post
    Nevada has an open season on Jack Rabbit any legal weapon. So it is always hunting season in Nevada.

    NDOW Nevada Division of Wildlife has an awesome web page. All you need to know on hunting, fishing and trapping.
    Plus if you check the Nfs regs they welcome shooting.

  22. #22
    Super Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    N. Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    28,576
    National Forest land regarding firearms.
    http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_...rdb5066182.pdf
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    24
    Grapeshot, that PDF says that there is an exception if you have a carry permit, and seems to say that you can carry in a national forest.



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

  24. #24
    Super Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    N. Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    28,576
    Quote Originally Posted by throck View Post
    Grapeshot, that PDF says that there is an exception if you have a carry permit, and seems to say that you can carry in a national forest.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    The OP is about open carry. That then goes to OCing with a permit. Apply as indicated to your state laws.
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Granite State of Mind
    Posts
    4,311
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    National Forest land regarding firearms.
    http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_...rdb5066182.pdf
    The first sentence says all you need to know. The rest of it is about examples of state laws restricting firearms, mostly hunting regulations.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •