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Thread: Gun Trainers Don't Approve of OC

  1. #1
    Regular Member lysander6's Avatar
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    Gun Trainers Don't Approve of OC

    Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLLxk...DC329EA65A0AC7

    I think they are wrong.
    Gun Control is Mind Control.

    My Blog: http://zerogov.com/

  2. #2
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    I just saw this and was about to post this. They are way too biased to have a clear argument. They make big deals out of the lesser points of OC. They totally downplayed the deterrent value of OC.

  3. #3
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    I think the police should stop carrying OC, since "Gun Trainers" don't approve of the practice.

    ;-)

  4. #4
    Regular Member KYKevin's Avatar
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    They call the video open vs conceal carry. But it is nothing but an attack on open carry. They make money with their classes. They begin and end by selling their business in the video. They do disrespect oc people by talking down to them with this video. But they are entitled to their opinion. And it is just that, an opinion. Maybe if one of them had been a open carrier in the video it would have been less boring and would have been more open vs conceal carry as the video was titled. Maybe it will drum up some business for them.

    You will also notice they disabled the ratings for their video. I suspect they knew what the overall response would be.
    Last edited by KYKevin; 07-19-2012 at 03:05 PM.
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    We all speak of liberty and freedom like we are the only ones that know the truth and the right path. But if we expect everyone to accept and follow our path and to accept our truth and want to force it upon them then that is no longer liberty or freedom. It is slavery. I believe in liberty for all. Regardless of their political views, religion, race, sex, etc.

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    I got a migraine from repeatedly rolling my eyes during the first 59 seconds of "I'm James Yeager and I'm not gonna call you names!"

    Didn't make it past much more than that, after I heard them yammering about how they just don't understand HOW open carry could possibly be more comfortable (does wearing layers or heavier material sound comfy in 90+ degree weather?!) and how "most but not all" OC'ers didn't have a gun belt or only had a $4 holster.


  6. #6
    McX
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    boy it would be nice if i had wads of money to spend on fancy holsters, instead i use the 9 buckers that are disdained. i dont even got money for a fancy pair of sunglasses. snarf.


    i'm Snake Pliskin, you can call me Snake.
    Last edited by McX; 07-19-2012 at 03:33 PM.

  7. #7
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    1 in 5 police officers are murdered with their own gun? Holy crap!!! 20% of all police offers are dead? Where was this statistic when people were arguing that being a police officer may not be the most dangerous occupation?

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYKevin View Post
    They make money with their classes.
    More to the point, when OC is allowed without a class-based permit, firearms safety instructors don't make a dime off OC. CC is their bread and butter! Of course they're defending their profession, and that's understandable.

    What I don't understand is how they could have so little integrity (or is it merely lack of common sense?) to repeat some of the whoppers in the video. Where do they learn that garbage, anyway? Is that what they're teaching in instructor school these days?
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    What since9 said! +1 Pax...
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  10. #10
    Regular Member Medic1210's Avatar
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    James Yeager needs to check his black history. At 11:10, he said if Rosa Parks' plan didn't work out, blacks would still be slaves. Talk about ridiculous. Slavery was abolished in the mid-1800's. Rosa Parks didn't get off the bus almost 100 years later.

    I commented on that, but since they have to approve the comments, I'm betting it will never get posted.

    They also claim that most OC proponents don't have any real gun training (not including state mandated classes). Like most CCW holders get any real gun training...
    Last edited by Medic1210; 07-20-2012 at 02:21 AM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I couldn't make it half way through, what a couple of self serving (insert name calling). All they did was insult OCing, and act like complete fools. The stupid part is some OCers take CC classes, they can kiss that money goodbye.

  12. #12
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Their video could have been what, a 15 second spot?

    "CC good, OC bad, here's our phone number and address, come on down and sign up today. 10% off if you sign up in the next 15 minutes."
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    "Like sand thru an hourglass........." No individual will be able to change the minds of these so called "experts". They have closed their minds to discussion and have set their opinions. What we, as OC people, could do is Keep Calm, Carry On, and let them look stupid.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  14. #14
    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    I think there was something wrong with Dude's head, the way he kept rubbing it...
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  15. #15
    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    More to the point, when OC is allowed without a class-based permit, firearms safety instructors don't make a dime off OC. CC is their bread and butter! Of course they're defending their profession, and that's understandable.
    To my knowledge, TR does NOT offer a CCW permit course (that is Yeager's company). I am not sure about the other guy because I have never heard of him. So, at least as far as Yeager is concerned, it's not like he is losing money on CCW permit classes when folks decide to OC rather than CC, because he doesn't offer those classes anyway. In addition, he doesn't just offer his regular training classes to CCW permit holders - if you want to take a TR class, you can take it whether you OC or CC. In fact, I would guess that the vast majority of the people attending those classes do it with OWB gear and exposed firearms.

    What I don't understand is how they could have so little integrity (or is it merely lack of common sense?) to repeat some of the whoppers in the video. Where do they learn that garbage, anyway? Is that what they're teaching in instructor school these days?
    I don't know. I could have come up with better, more well thought out arguments against OC (or in support of CC) than what they came up with, and I'm not even against OC. The sad thing is, they botched an opportunity to have a REAL and VALID discussion on the issue by coming forward with such poorly researched and poorly presented opinions.

  16. #16
    Regular Member WhistlingJack's Avatar
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    I couldn't even finish that video.
    Their language and mannerisms are very unproffesional, I wouldn't pay Tank Abbot and the Miz there to sweep my floors let alone teach me anything about firearms.

    Their statements (to me at least) just goes to prove you don't have to be honest, or know what you are talking about to be an 'expert'. And the laugh when Tank Abbot (yes I know that's not his real name but with the sunglasses on that's who he reminds me of) begins saying he is not going to call names....then goes on to make a video which is insulting to OC'ers, it is simply a cheap laugh.

    Commenting on how most OC'ers don't have any 'real training'....attending a Concealed Carry Course is of course not 'real training', how many people carrying a firearm do have 'real training'? How many who carry a gun and have 'real training' are any good with their weapon despite their 'real training'?
    Police Officers train, they are notoriously bad shots who miss more often and are more likely to hit innocent bystanders than are private citizens. That is not conjecture it is documented fact. More than one firearms article has been printed on how the marksmanship abilities of the average GI in the Army are considerably inferior to those of private citizens. (Not bashing the Army here, they do what they can with the budget they have.) Attacking OC'ers for being poorly trained is dishonest and condescending. Poor training, and poor skills is not confined to a particular niche of people.

    Meanwhile I have no respect for someone who uses fear-mongering to push their point. All of this crap about how OC'ers get targeted first, these remarks come invariably from people who know nothing about how criminals actually behave. It all assumes that a firearm will be noticed just because someone is OC'ing it. There are many places I regularly go where it was weeks or even months after I started open carrying before any of the employees there actually noticed I had a firearm on me. Saying someone will be targeted first is like saying a criminal will see a Cop in a gas station, walk in, shoot the cop, then rob the place instead of going somewhere else. A criminal walks in and sees someone with a gun, he's going to go somewhere else.

    What really bothers me about guys like these two is people will think they are 'experts' so they must be right, all they say must be gold, they will pay for training, then think of themselves as experts and create a never-ending cycle of conceit.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence ... From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . the very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good"
    -George Washington

  17. #17
    Regular Member gunns's Avatar
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    Its there opinion. Make a rebuttal video.

    Is this him too:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5KPr53rSe4

  18. #18
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    Everyone is free to voice their opinion ~ but sometimes you get what you pay for

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    They aren't trainers. They are opportunists with some training to offer. There is a difference.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunns View Post
    Its there opinion. Make a rebuttal video.

    Is this him too:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5KPr53rSe4
    I didnt watch the video because it would get my blood pressure up, but I can already tell most of what was said, "first to get shot" or someone will take your gun and use it on you"bla bla . Same ole crap Ive heard others say when they are too afraid to OC. They heard all the arguments from someone else and they just assume its right. In my state OC is a right cc is a privilage. But they dont get that as alot of cc dont get it, a shame really.

  21. #21
    Regular Member LeMat's Avatar
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    Wow, real "operator" there with his high school minion sidekick...........

    These are the same guys who make you throw your handgun down on the ground "just to make sure it's drop safe" and demonstrate tjat it's a tool, not a showpiece. I already know it's a tool and don't need to throw it on the gravel to prove it. The holster wear should make it plenty evident.

    Same guys who have O.D.'d on the Glock kool aid and let students know that if you ain't packin' a Glock, you're an idiot.

    Same guys who say that anything larger than 9mm is stupid and if you carry a 45, you must have a small "unit".

    Yeah, I'm too old to deal with people like this.
    Last edited by LeMat; 07-20-2012 at 08:37 PM.
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  22. #22
    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    It's kind of funny; if you review their "About Us", TR indicates they have an open mind and just ask everyone who attends to have one too :

    "We have vowed to never become marred down by traditionalism or the status quo. Tactical Response asks for an open mind from our students and we require nothing less from ourselves. We consider it a failure to not learn at least one new piece of information while we attend a class. "


    I guess they have learned everything?

    I don't give them a lot of credibility.
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
    ~Mark Twain

  23. #23
    Regular Member Medic1210's Avatar
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    Don't bother leaving a comment on their video unless you are telling them how awesome they be. They will delete or not approve them. I've tried twice already.

  24. #24
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medic1210 View Post
    Don't bother leaving a comment on their video unless you are telling them how awesome they be. They will delete or not approve them. I've tried twice already.
    No need I am sure one of our anti OC readers have probably already told them about our comments. Hope they come read for themselves but expect them to just "runaway".

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