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Thread: 14 Dead after gunman pepper sprays theater then opens fire into the crowd.

  1. #1
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    14 Dead after gunman pepper sprays theater then opens fire into the crowd.

    Always be on the defensive, and be aware of your surroundings. This guy was ready for war.

    My heart goes out to the family and friends of the victims.

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/20/us/col...ing/index.html
    You can speak softy and carry a big stick, but I'll stick to my guns.

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    Regular Member Horseman's Avatar
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    This is why you have to carry everywhere it's legal, no exceptions, and avoid those places where it is not legal. How many lives could have been saved if someone in the theater had been carrying and willing to return fire?

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    What is sad is the comments the antis make after that article. They are so convinced guns are the devil, they immediately say things like "well at least there were no "hero's" in the audience with guns to make it worse!"
    People truly are brain washed.

    I hope I never have to be in that situation, I DON'T invite it... but I'll tell you this I was in a theater two weeks ago (of course it was posted with a image that appeared to mean don't bring revolvers unholstered....) and as I walked up the dark steps and picked a seat it went through my mind... what if some one came in shooting, where should I seat my loved ones to give them the best protection.... I had these thoughts.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Regular Member tomm1963's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    What is sad is the comments the antis make after that article. They are so convinced guns are the devil, they immediately say things like "well at least there were no "hero's" in the audience with guns to make it worse!"
    People truly are brain washed.
    Yes brainwashed and uninformed. Incidents like this http://www.gainesville.com/article/2...CLES/120719763 just don't sink in, how an armed citizen can end a potential tragedy in seconds.
    http://video.foxnews.com/v/174053258...ntcmp=obinsite

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    I read one report where most of the people were under 21, so they had no means of self defense because the government in its almighty wisdom thought it best for them to be defenseless.

    How could this situation have gotten worse? You'd have one dead bad guy and less dead good guys.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    This was posted on the WCI FB page: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...earms-allowed/

    Another GFZ that claims many innocent lives.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  7. #7
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    What is sad is the comments the antis make after that article. They are so convinced guns are the devil, they immediately say things like "well at least there were no "hero's" in the audience with guns to make it worse!"
    People truly are brain washed.
    When you have committed yourself to ideology over reason, you often find yourself having to do extraordinary mental gymnastics to justify your beliefs.

  8. #8
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    gives new meaning to 3D. and ofcourse no one had a gun, law abiding wise, cause you cant carry in there i bet.


    if it happened around here there would be the consolation of suing the theater. though people would still be dead. if one got to whack the silly, they'd be a hero hated by the left, and relegated probably to only free soda, and popcorn for life. getting so one is best home paying cable $7 a whack to watch crappy movies in the comfort of one's own home.
    Last edited by McX; 07-20-2012 at 01:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    What is sad is the comments the antis make after that article. They are so convinced guns are the devil, they immediately say things like "well at least there were no "hero's" in the audience with guns to make it worse!"
    People truly are brain washed.
    It pains me to agree with you given our current "discussion" in other places, but this is exactly why I can't stand reading comments attached to online media. Everybody is so brave behind their keyboard that you get the truly idiotic sides of people coming out, with absolutely no common sense or thought process of any kind to be found.

    How hard is it to understand that because there were not enough armed citizens in that theatre this man was permitted to carry on without being hindered? Now our tax dollars are going to be paying for his trial to go on for god knows how long, when he should have been shot repeatedly on the spot and never took another breath of our hard earned air again.

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    Regular Member Horseman's Avatar
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    Three weeks ago I took my son to a movie. I explained why we were sitting where we were sitting, and told him what I would be doing if we had an active shooter. Of course, this was in the context of explaining to him the laws and expectations concerning carrying, using myself as an example. I think that those of us who are fathers should routinely have these discussions with our families.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Horseman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    This was posted on the WCI FB page: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...earms-allowed/

    Another GFZ that claims many innocent lives.
    +1

    Like I said, avoid places where carry is not allowed, as if your life depended on it, because it might (and in this case it did).

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horseman View Post
    Three weeks ago I took my son to a movie. I explained why we were sitting where we were sitting, and told him what I would be doing if we had an active shooter. Of course, this was in the context of explaining to him the laws and expectations concerning carrying, using myself as an example. I think that those of us who are fathers should routinely have these discussions with our families.
    Its sad that we are forced to plan for such an occurance.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    interesting that this quote from obama has mysteriously been omitted from more recent articles.

    President Barack Obama said he was saddened by the "horrific and tragic shooting," pledging that his administration was "committed to bringing whoever was responsible to justice, ensuring the safety of our people, and caring for those who have been wounded."


    Something they aren't telling us? I thought they already had the perpitrator in custody at the time he made trhis comment.

  14. #14
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwaterous View Post
    It pains me to agree with you given our current "discussion" in other places, but this is exactly why I can't stand reading comments attached to online media. Everybody is so brave behind their keyboard that you get the truly idiotic sides of people coming out, with absolutely no common sense or thought process of any kind to be found.

    How hard is it to understand that because there were not enough armed citizens in that theatre this man was permitted to carry on without being hindered? Now our tax dollars are going to be paying for his trial to go on for god knows how long, when he should have been shot repeatedly on the spot and never took another breath of our hard earned air again.
    Ha! Don't be pained too much. I had to go back a look through my last posts to know what you were talking about! I had no idea who you were and don't carry grudges. But anyway..
    These people say the most incredibly stupid things. Actually even on this forum is some of the other thread about the shooting people are saying the same thing. No good guys with a gun could have made a difference. The best thing to do even if you were armed is cower in a corner or run. It is sad.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    Ha! Don't be pained too much. I had to go back a look through my last posts to know what you were talking about! I had no idea who you were and don't carry grudges. But anyway..
    These people say the most incredibly stupid things. Actually even on this forum is some of the other thread about the shooting people are saying the same thing. No good guys with a gun could have made a difference. The best thing to do even if you were armed is cower in a corner or run. It is sad.
    I understand that the terrorist had some body armor on, I don't know exactly what, yet.

    However, keep in mind, that:

    1. I am sure his weapons were not armored, 9mm handgun slugs and up, would definitely damage the trigger group, and magazine throat and magazine of an AR-15, or a shotgun. A 100 round drum magazine is a large target, and somewhat fragile. Denting the receiver will also take the weapon out.

    2. Whatever is used for a faceplate or a screen, even on a bomb squad helmet, will quickly lose visibility after receiving bullet strikes.

    3. Gloves or mitts on the hands, that have enough dexterity to fire and reload a weapon or shoot a handgun, will not provide much protection to the hands. Bones in the fingers and wrists will be broken and blood will be lost, and unless the shooter was shotup with speed or painkillers, the pain will quickly be disabling. Basically you just need to cripple 1 hand to end it: when the terrorist can only shoot 1 handgun at a time, it will be over soon.

    4. Shots at the lower legs and feet, especially when moving, will throw the shooter off balance and down on the ground. It is not easy to get upright and reoriented while wearing all this gear, especially while taking hits.

    None of the above shots would be easy, or safe. But, they could have made a difference. Multiple defenders would make a BIG difference, so the terrorist could not concentrate his fire, for long.

    -------------------------------------------------

    I watched the Dark Knight Rises, tonight at an unposted movie theater. It was well attended. I sat a few seats in from the aisle, with the only front exit in a close field of fire. 3 times an usher checked the front exit during the movie. I checked it before I sat down.

    I checked the front exit visually a lot more often than that. My XDM had the long magazine in it, and a spare in the jacket pocket.

    One thing the Israelis are right about: you cannot let terrorists stop your activities, chase you up a tree, or down a hole.
    Last edited by E6chevron; 07-25-2012 at 11:39 PM.
    Wis. CCL #5x Springfield XDM 3.8 Compact .40 S&W, Utah CFP

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    Sounds as this shooter had lots of armor on he would have been tough to take out with handgun rounds.

    Remember the North hollywood bank robbers, they took a lot of shotgun and handgun hits.

    Wouldn't have been easy but should would have tried.


    Hopefully with some thing more then a subcompact 380 or the like.

    This is where I high cap pistol is very handy gives one a lot more rounds to find a weak spot.

    Also to keep him busy.

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    E6 just to answer your im not sure what he had statement early reports say he had a balistic helmet, kevlar vest, neck guard, tact pants tact boots, gloves, gas mask and was hoped up on vicadin
    Last edited by oliverclotheshoff; 07-21-2012 at 09:07 PM.
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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    I know there is a lot of talk about how difficult it would be to shoot back in a situation like this, with armour and smoke and confusion. But I would rather be armed with a chance than unarmed with none.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post
    I understand that the terrorist had some body armor on, I don't exactly what, yet.

    However, keep in mind, that:

    1. I am sure his weapons were not armored, 9mm handgun slugs and up, would definitely damage the trigger group, and magazine throat and magazine of an AR-15, or a shotgun. A 100 round drum magazine is a large target, and somewhat fragile. Denting the receiver will also take the weapon out.

    2. Whatever is used for a faceplate or a screen, even on a bomb squad helmet, will quickly lose visibility after receiving bullet strikes.

    3. Gloves or mitts on the hands, that have enough dexterity to fire and reload a weapon or shoot a handgun, will not provide much protection to the hands. Bones in the fingers and wrists will be broken and blood will be lost, and unless the shooter was shotup with speed or painkillers, the pain will quickly be disabling. Basically you just need to cripple 1 hand to end it: when the terrorist can only shoot 1 handgun at a time, it will be over soon.

    4. Shots at the lower legs and feet, especially when moving, will throw the shooter off balance and down on the ground. It is not easy to get upright and reoriented while wearing all this gear, especially while taking hits.

    None of the above shots would be easy, or safe. But, they could have made a difference. Multiple defenders would make a BIG difference, so the terrorist could not concentrate his fire, for long.

    -------------------------------------------------

    I watched the Dark Knight Rises, tonight at an unposted movie theater. It was well attended. I sat a few seats in from the aisle, with the only front exit in a close field of fire. 3 times an usher checked the front exit during the movie. I checked it before I sat down.

    I checked the front exit visually a lot more often than that. My XDM had the long magazine in it, and a spare in the jacket pocket.

    One thing the Israelis are right about: you cannot let terrorists stop your activities, chase you up a tree, or down a hole.
    This is one of the many reasons why I installed a Laser on my Glock.

  20. #20
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    I'm interested in the release of better information as to the protection worn and the tactical situation.

    There will be a very good discussion, then.
    Wis. CCL #5x Springfield XDM 3.8 Compact .40 S&W, Utah CFP

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    Anybody know the distance of the shots? How many rows back from the shooter is 30 feet. I'm confident that most members of this forum can put their shots in an eight inch circle at 10 yards. Yeah, there are other factors involved that I'm sure some of you will jump on. Things like smoke, noise, lighting, the fear and the adrenaline factor, but what if one lawfully armed law-abiding citizen could get in a good shot and save just one life? What is the value of saving one life? It is beyond value. The slime ball shooter is a coward. He didn't even have the guts to shoot himself which is the norm in mass shootings of this ilk. The fact he wore so much tactical armour indicates he has a strong self-preservation instinct. Just the fact someone was shooting back at him might have had a psychological effect that could have made a difference. We may never know the answers. The theater owners cave-in to the national paranoia of guns prevented the answer.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Sounds as this shooter had lots of armor on he would have been tough to take out with handgun rounds.

    Remember the North hollywood bank robbers, they took a lot of shotgun and handgun hits.

    Wouldn't have been easy but should would have tried.


    Hopefully with some thing more then a subcompact 380 or the like.

    This is where I high cap pistol is very handy gives one a lot more rounds to find a weak spot.

    Also to keep him busy.
    As by her own admission, that girl(Jenny?)[Fox news interview] with the butch haircut said her and her "buff" male friend were in the front row within 3 feet of the shooter. Body armor or not, if you can control the end the barrel on the AR; you can control where & how many shots are fired. Why didn't they grasp the barrel and rush, push, or trip the shooter??? Backup would have surely come to help when they seen the tables turned on the FREAK...


    Hero's are made in this way; not by how long you can keep the cameras' rolling as you spin a tale of retreat... Two cents worth
    Last edited by Lurchiron; 07-21-2012 at 10:15 PM.
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    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...41306620120720

    As per chp. 21 of ss175.60 if this shooting had happened in a Wisconsin theater that did not ban weapons the theater would possibly be immune from lawsuits. Lawsuits that in this case will probably be in the mega-millions.
    Last edited by Captain Nemo; 07-21-2012 at 10:43 PM.

  24. #24
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    proof that there was at least one person who would have fired back if he were armed. I have to belive that if he sacrificed his life to protect his loved ones he would have shot back in trying to defend them.


    http://news.yahoo.com/police-colo-su...232812400.html


    Another victim, 27-year-old Matt McQuinn, was killed after diving in front of his girlfriend and her older brother to shield them from the gunfire, said his family's attorney, Rob Scott of Dayton, Ohio.

    Alex Sullivan had planned a weekend of fun, first ringing in his 27th birthday with friends at the special midnight showing of "The Dark Knight Rises" and then celebrating his first wedding anniversary on Sunday.

    "He was a very, very good young man," said Sullivan's uncle, Joe Loewenguth. "He always had a smile, always made you laugh. He had a little bit of comic in him."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Sounds as this shooter had lots of armor on he would have been tough to take out with handgun rounds.

    Remember the North hollywood bank robbers, they took a lot of shotgun and handgun hits.

    Wouldn't have been easy but should would have tried.


    Hopefully with some thing more then a subcompact 380 or the like.

    This is where I high cap pistol is very handy gives one a lot more rounds to find a weak spot.

    Also to keep him busy.
    The best i can figure it is the only *weak spot* would've straight through the gas mask.

    However, being the innocent patron, (without a gas mask) the situation was complicated by the suddenness of attack, obviously the smoke (gas) cloud & the line of fire ( distance, confused nature of the innocents & direction of attack) being clear to mark a direct hit.

    To All the families involved, you're in our thoughts & prayers.

    May you find the strength to rise above this tragedy and find a true peace from those who support you at this time.

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