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14 Dead after gunman pepper sprays theater then opens fire into the crowd.

AaronS

AaronS

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I just picked up a case of M855 rounds last month (USA, tungsten core).
I still have about 600 ss109 rounds I got on line a frew months ago.

Both are 5.56, and both are listed as light armor piercing (LAP). Won't take out a tank, but will rip through body armor.

I found that the extra weight (62gr.) work better for my rifle. As overstock NATO ammo, the price is also good.
 
Interceptor_Knight

Interceptor_Knight

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AaronS said:
I just picked up a case of M855 rounds last month (USA, tungsten core).
I still have about 600 ss109 rounds I got on line a frew months ago.

Both are 5.56, and both are listed as light armor piercing (LAP). Won't take out a tank, but will rip through body armor..
Click to expand...
M855/ss109 does not have tungsten in it and it is not armor piercing by any standard. PMC and possibly others use the term "light armor piercing" in their advertisement but they are misrepresenting the facts. The steel penetrator tipped lead core is not the same as a solid piece of steel. These bullets still have a lead core. They will not defeat body armor any better than other FMJ 5.56 rounds such as M193.
 
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AaronS

AaronS

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The ss109 I have are imported by American Tactical Imports, and were made for the Turkish army (made in Turkiye on the box). This round is a copper jacket lead bullet, with a steel core. I have opened one up, and it looks like a small spike at the head.

The M855 I have is Federal Ammo (Made in USA). It is the same, but used tungsten as a "spike". I have also opened one up also.

I did a peel and melt to get mine out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1vO3RBgzl_4

If the link works, the rounds look just like this, and WILL pass through class 3 body armor. Vids of that are also on youtube (thin plate steel as well).

The stuff has been used for years by the US.
 
AaronS

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Interceptor_Knight said:
As will many other non AP rounds.. Defeating thin kevlar layers is a far cry from piercing steel armor.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%. LAP rounds will never take out real steel armor (won't dent a tank). LAP rounds are just Light Armor Piercing. The LAP round is just to make sure it will go through car doors, or car glass, or body armor. It can help break through brick also.
Standard (55gr. FMJ) 5.56 rounds fragment so much, even car glass can give it problems. So the M855 helps drive it home. I have to be honest, I am a bit into my 5.56 rounds...
Still miss my old Russian AK. All of the 7.62*39 were good to go...

I'm thinking this is a whole new topic from the OP...
 
paul@paul-fisher.com

paul@paul-fisher.com

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AaronS said:
I agree 100%. LAP rounds will never take out real steel armor (won't dent a tank). LAP rounds are just Light Armor Piercing. The LAP round is just to make sure it will go through car doors, or car glass, or body armor. It can help break through brick also.
Standard (55gr. FMJ) 5.56 rounds fragment so much, even car glass can give it problems. So the M855 helps drive it home. I have to be honest, I am a bit into my 5.56 rounds...
Still miss my old Russian AK. All of the 7.62*39 were good to go...

I'm thinking this is a whole new topic from the OP...
Click to expand...

OK, back to my original question, which obviously I didn't ask properly.

What is a good carry handgun (OC size is fine) that can be equipped with a relatively easily obtainable round that would of dealt appropriately with this scumbag in CO.
 
Interceptor_Knight

Interceptor_Knight

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paul@paul-fisher.com said:
OK, back to my original question, which obviously I didn't ask properly.

What is a good carry handgun (OC size is fine) that can be equipped with a relatively easily obtainable round that would of dealt appropriately with this scumbag in CO.
Click to expand...

AR pistol 1st choice and FN Five Seven pistol for second choice. Both have easily obtainable rounds which could have made quick work out of stopping the threat in that Aurora CO theater.
In skilled hands, because of the close quarters, many conventional carry handguns may have also been able to stop the threat.
 
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davegran

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This discussion should not be happening...

paul@paul-fisher.com said:
OK, back to my original question, which obviously I didn't ask properly.

What is a good carry handgun (OC size is fine) that can be equipped with a relatively easily obtainable round that would of dealt appropriately with this scumbag in CO.
Click to expand...
Until we learn exactly what he was wearing for protective clothing, we can't answer that question with any certainty. But let's face it, we can't carry a variety of ammo for every scenario that might occur if we want to get into the fight quickly.

What nobody seems to be stressing is that, if the theater had welcomed law abiding citizens with guns, this discussion would not be happening. Redhair was obviously a coward and would not have gone into any place that might have contained people who could defend themselves.

2rdwzkg.jpg

​
 
paul@paul-fisher.com

paul@paul-fisher.com

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Interceptor_Knight said:
AR pistol 1st choice and FN Five Seven pistol for second choice. Both have easily obtainable rounds which could have made quick work out of stopping the threat in that Aurora CO theater.
In skilled hands, because of the close quarters, many conventional carry handguns may have also been able to stop the threat.
Click to expand...

The point I make to people who think I or someone similarly disposed may of been dirty Harry and stopped the threat, not necessarily but I would of at least distracted him enough by shooting 20 times in his direction and maybe, just maybe I would of only let him kill 11 people instead of 12 or wound 50 instead of 58.

It's bad that we live in a world that we have to think this way but some people are crazy or evil or both and I want the best chance I can to survive or at least help someone out.
 
M

McX

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paul@paul-fisher.com said:
OK, back to my original question, which obviously I didn't ask properly.

What is a good carry handgun (OC size is fine) that can be equipped with a relatively easily obtainable round that would of dealt appropriately with this scumbag in CO.
Click to expand...

7.62 by 25 used in the CZ52
 
paul@paul-fisher.com

paul@paul-fisher.com

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davegran said:
Until we learn exactly what he was wearing for protective clothing, we can't answer that question with any certainty. But let's face it, we can't carry a variety of ammo for every scenario that might occur if we want to get into the fight quickly.

What nobody seems to be stressing is that, if the theater had welcomed law abiding citizens with guns, this discussion would not be happening. Redhair was obviously a coward and would not have gone into any place that might have contained people who could defend themselves.

2rdwzkg.jpg

​
Click to expand...

I covered the rest of my intent while you were posting but the last sentence isn't necessarily true. If he is/was crazy, he might not of cared.
 
Interceptor_Knight

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paul@paul-fisher.com said:
I covered the rest of my intent while you were posting but the last sentence isn't necessarily true. If he is/was crazy, he might not of cared.
Click to expand...
He is crazy/dumb like a fox. Being a sociopath appears to be his only craziness. He obviously internally justified his actions and then rationally carried out the act including a sense of self preservation. This being the case, he almost certainly would have reacted to being wounded in a manner which would have curtailed the carnage. He appears to simply be a weak coward who was hiding behind body armor. A bug who was just waiting to be crushed.
 
paul@paul-fisher.com

paul@paul-fisher.com

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The latest news is that he mailed a description of what he was going to do (not sure the exactness of the detail) to a psychologist and it arrived in mail room 7/12 but wasn't discovered until the Monday after the shooting (7/23).
 
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