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Thread: Let the "If more people in the theater were armed" discussion begin

  1. #1
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Let the "If more people in the theater were armed" discussion begin

    12 Dead and many injured in Dark Knight Midnight Show (Aurora, CO)

    http://heraldnet.com/article/2012072...ect-in-custody


    Moviegoers didn't know what was happening and some thought the attack was part of the show.
    That statement alone tells me that having armed patrons in the theater means the outcome would probably be the same, with the exception of a dead shooter.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    12 Dead and many injured in Dark Knight Midnight Show (Aurora, CO)

    http://heraldnet.com/article/2012072...ect-in-custody

    That statement alone tells me that having armed patrons in the theater means the outcome would probably be the same, with the exception of a dead shooter.
    Howdy Amlevin!

    Depending on how soon the shooter died, a life or several may have been saved.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    12 Dead and many injured in Dark Knight Midnight Show (Aurora, CO)

    http://heraldnet.com/article/2012072...ect-in-custody




    That statement alone tells me that having armed patrons in the theater means the outcome would probably be the same, with the exception of a dead shooter.
    I do not go to many movies but when I do I sit in the back row in the corner farthest from the exit. this does two things I have a place to put my legs and I have a view of the entire theater. If there had been someone armed that also had some awareness of their surroundings then maybe a few people would have been saved. Just firing a shot at him may have stopped him.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Amlevin I agree and along with that we hear about many incidents that occur where people did not know or knew well after the initial incident before acknowledging or acting.
    I know there will be calls for tighter restrictions on firearms possession or relating to movie theaters which will have no effect on stopping these types of incidents, citizens being armed could have ended the totality of threat and likely have saved some of those harmed.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    I do not go to many movies but when I do I sit in the back row in the corner farthest from the exit. this does two things I have a place to put my legs and I have a view of the entire theater. If there had been someone armed that also had some awareness of their surroundings then maybe a few people would have been saved. Just firing a shot at him may have stopped him.
    I sit in a similar position. And have long taught my daughters and my ex wife, by covering there eyes to point to the exit. A fire or smoke can obscure your line of sight to the exits at anytime.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    I sit in a similar position. And have long taught my daughters and my ex wife, by covering there eyes to point to the exit. A fire or smoke can obscure your line of sight to the exits at anytime.
    I point out exits all the time to Michele and I did so when my kids were young. I used to play a game with the kids find the exit(s) at new places.
    Last edited by Jeff Hayes; 07-20-2012 at 11:05 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    I point out exits all the time to Michele and I did so when my kids were young. I used to play a game with the kids find the exit(s) at new places.
    Same here, my dad had family members die in a fire when he was a teenager.

    I hope others with young families that read this thread play the fire exit game.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Same here, my dad had family members die in a fire when he was a teenager.

    I hope others with young families that read this thread play the fire exit game.
    I have seen my son point out exits to his daughter so I know it rubs off.

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    Sometimes, nut cases slip through the cracks, or people have psychotic breaks. It happens. Sometimes, doo-doo occurs and there is just diddly squat we can do about it. For those who are religious, they perceive as the will of an all seeing God - for others it is just a simple twist of fate.

    For the families that have lost loved ones, it is a tragedy. For the Brady Bunch it will be an opportunity. For most of us, it will be a learning experience.

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    Regular Member Lante's Avatar
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    The theater in Aurora Co is operated by Cinemark. Cinemark does not allow weapons in their theaters. A search of Cinemark on these forums shows that they are fairly rigorous in their enforcement of their policy. The thread on their official policy is here:
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...light=cinemark

    It appears from various posts around the country that Cinemark does post their theaters with a Guns Prohibited sign.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...light=cinemark
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...light=cinemark

    In Colorado it not illegal by state statue to carry into any business that has a No Guns sign posted, but Rocky Mountain Gun Owners ("Colorado's only No Compromise Gun Rights organization") notes that it is "sometimes" illegal to carry at a private business that bans guns. http://www.rmgo.org/gun-law-faqs/criminal-trespass.

    As usual in these cases the shooter already broke several firearms and dangerous devices laws prior to starting to shoot. Some of them are:
    33-6-125. Possession of a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle. (I will assume the shooter didn't load up in the parking lot.)
    18-12-106. Prohibited use of weapons
    18-12-107.5. Illegal discharge of a firearm - penalty
    18-12-109. Possession, use, or removal of explosives or incendiary devices - possession of components thereof - chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons - persons exempt - hoaxes

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    We'll never know what the real answer is in reference to the title of this thread. Chances are just as likely that if the entire back row was carrying that none of them may have reacted; not everybody carrying a weapon has fired it more than a dozen times. Chances are also just as likely that if the entire back row was carrying that the shooter may have been taken out before he even claimed one victim (gawd that would have been great); and what's ridiculous is that the person who took him out would probably be on trial this morning, though with the backing of the NRA and the entire country I'm sure. Chances are that 10 of those people carrying would have failed to draw, and 2 did... one of them shot an unarmed citizen by accident in the fray, and the other got the shooter, but due to his vest he was unaffected and took out both people who drew; at least somebody would have tried, no matter how tragic the outcome... chances are one of them shot an unarmed citizen and then proceeded to shake it off and took out the shooter, and the death toll would have been less than half of what it was this morning.

    There are too many what ifs. It's just too bad we'll never know.
    Last edited by mwaterous; 07-20-2012 at 12:07 PM.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwaterous View Post
    Chances are just as likely that if the entire back row was carrying that none of them may have reacted; not everybody carrying a weapon has fired it more than a dozen times.

    The reason I selected that quote from the article was to show what really happens when something like this happens. The very first reaction of even the most experienced, unless they've just returned from "down range", is to say "WTF"????? By the time they figure it out, the shooter is on his first or second reload.

    Add to all that the smoke and panic-------
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    The reason I selected that quote from the article was to show what really happens when something like this happens. The very first reaction of even the most experienced, unless they've just returned from "down range", is to say "WTF"????? By the time they figure it out, the shooter is on his first or second reload.

    Add to all that the smoke and panic-------
    It's a very real possibility, which is why it was my first example. It's easy for all of us to chest bump and rabble about how we would have done what we could have done... but none of us know what we would do until we're there. Some ex-military personnel might very well have frozen up... some civilian might very well have been a real life Rambo. The problem is we'll never know because we've done everything in our power to keep that possibility from occurring. The gun owning populace is small and heavily regulated. The anti's are out in force, and the people on the fence have no idea what to believe.

    England, Canada, and Australia are all getting upset. They've had their guns full on taken away, and they want them back due to the rise in violent crime. We've still got them here. God forbid we lose that right.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lante View Post
    The theater in Aurora Co is operated by Cinemark. Cinemark does not allow weapons in their theaters.
    That policy sure worked well here, didn't it?


    Do you think the shooter may have picked the theater because of this policy, as well as the fact that it would be a target rich environment?

    So much for "No Guns" policies. Worked well for the Post Office too.


    More from Fox News:

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/20...-knight-rises/
    Last edited by amlevin; 07-20-2012 at 02:37 PM.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    I wonder what the chances are of a patron in that tragedy winning a civil suit against the theater on the grounds that the theater led them to believe it was safe based on the "no guns" signage... i'm just saying, it's about time this crap starts backfiring. if businesses are going to take away people's ability to defend themselves, then are they not taking responsibility for their patrons' protection?

    Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    I know there will be calls for tighter restrictions on firearms possession or relating to movie theaters which will have no effect on stopping these types of incidents, citizens being armed could have ended the totality of threat and likely have saved some of those harmed.
    Yeah, I really doubt a guy that has decided to commit a capital crime is going to be stopped by a misdemeanor (or even a felony) level law against weapons possession. At a conservative estimate, the shooter committed acts punishable by over 150 years in prison without possibility of parole, at a minimum. Adding a new law to increase penalties for actions that are already capital crimes? So the penalties double (hypothetically)? A 24 year old isn't going to live long enough to complete a 150 year sentence...why would a 300 year sentence deter him?
    Last edited by Difdi; 07-20-2012 at 08:00 PM.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    It is coming out that he had ballistic helmet, vest and leg protection armed with an AR-15, Shotgun and Glock 40 cal and booby trapped his apartment.
    Even if someone returned fire may have only paused him, if some in the theater had jumped him maybe having a better chance of stopping him sooner ????
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member jolly__roger's Avatar
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    One thing that I always think about in these situations is what will they determine the shooters reasoning is for the shooting. I have read several studies that point to the shooters of these type of mass killings having stopped taking their antidepressants which caused the known side effects (psychotic, homicidal and suicidal thoughts) to be exacerbated because of going through detox/withdrawal. I hope that someday doctors start getting a clue and stop prescribing so many antidepressants just because that's what the drug companies are brainwashing (and paying) them to do.

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    Regular Member Venya's Avatar
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    It's worth pointing out that even with body armor, getting shot hurts. A good-sized round to the chest is certainly going to disorient. Visibility and agility while wearing a pro mask and armor are substantially reduced, which also offers some potential for armed and even unarmed resistance. It's a lousy tactical situation for everyone else, but what is the alternative? Die?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venya View Post
    It's worth pointing out that even with body armor, getting shot hurts. A good-sized round to the chest is certainly going to disorient. Visibility and agility while wearing a pro mask and armor are substantially reduced, which also offers some potential for armed and even unarmed resistance. It's a lousy tactical situation for everyone else, but what is the alternative? Die?
    +1 well said

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    Regular Member Lante's Avatar
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    Good point Venya. One of the reasons I like big rounds!

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venya View Post
    It's worth pointing out that even with body armor, getting shot hurts. A good-sized round to the chest is certainly going to disorient. Visibility and agility while wearing a pro mask and armor are substantially reduced, which also offers some potential for armed and even unarmed resistance. It's a lousy tactical situation for everyone else, but what is the alternative? Die?
    Being shot is going to hurt no doubt but disorient? some and some not.
    We have seen and read many incidents where people are shot or shot multiple times and continued to fight or flee.
    There is no guarantee that a shot will stop the threat even with out armor.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member DeltaOps's Avatar
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    All these anti gun fanatics will be going crazy. I really do not get it. Lets make gun laws stricter but like many have said, nothing is really going to stop someone from doing something if they really want to do it.

    Now what I do not get is, they said he stepped in through one of the side doors. HOW THE F DID HE GET IN? I know all the theatres I have been too, the exit and side doors are locked from the outside. Who let him in? Was the door propped open a little? If it would have been me at the theatre and was wounded or just there, I would be sueing the theatre for not potecting me.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaOps View Post
    All these anti gun fanatics will be going crazy. I really do not get it. Lets make gun laws stricter but like many have said, nothing is really going to stop someone from doing something if they really want to do it.

    Now what I do not get is, they said he stepped in through one of the side doors. HOW THE F DID HE GET IN? I know all the theatres I have been too, the exit and side doors are locked from the outside. Who let him in? Was the door propped open a little? If it would have been me at the theatre and was wounded or just there, I would be sueing the theatre for not potecting me.
    He had gone in earlier with a paid ticket. Right as the movie starts he fakes a phone call and exits through an emergency exit and propping the door.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    I hope others with young families that read this thread play the fire exit game.
    Never even thought of it, but I'm gonna start now with my 5yo daughter! Thanks for sharing the wisdom guys.

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