Lante
Regular Member
Good point Venya. One of the reasons I like big rounds!
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Let the "If more people in the theater were armed" discussion begin
- Thread starter amlevin
- Start date
BigDave
Opt-Out Members
Being shot is going to hurt no doubt but disorient? some and some not.
We have seen and read many incidents where people are shot or shot multiple times and continued to fight or flee.
There is no guarantee that a shot will stop the threat even with out armor.
DeltaOps
Regular Member
All these anti gun fanatics will be going crazy. I really do not get it. Lets make gun laws stricter but like many have said, nothing is really going to stop someone from doing something if they really want to do it.
Now what I do not get is, they said he stepped in through one of the side doors. HOW THE F DID HE GET IN? I know all the theatres I have been too, the exit and side doors are locked from the outside. Who let him in? Was the door propped open a little? If it would have been me at the theatre and was wounded or just there, I would be sueing the theatre for not potecting me.
Now what I do not get is, they said he stepped in through one of the side doors. HOW THE F DID HE GET IN? I know all the theatres I have been too, the exit and side doors are locked from the outside. Who let him in? Was the door propped open a little? If it would have been me at the theatre and was wounded or just there, I would be sueing the theatre for not potecting me.
gogodawgs
Campaign Veteran
He had gone in earlier with a paid ticket. Right as the movie starts he fakes a phone call and exits through an emergency exit and propping the door.
country.hacker
Regular Member
Never even thought of it, but I'm gonna start now with my 5yo daughter! Thanks for sharing the wisdom guys.
jolly__roger
Regular Member
Sorry Delta, I'm not singling you out here, you just happen to the the most convenient to quote...
I have been reading tons of threads on this forum where any time something like this shooting happens, people go on the defensive fearing the 'antis' are going to come after us or they spend the majority of the time trying to analyse the situation at how they may have reacted if they were in that situation. The thing I hardly see any conversation about is how these types of situations might be prevented in the first place.
If we would spend some time and go back to do some research on the mass shooting cases we'll find that a majority of them are conducted by mentally unstable people. There are numerous ways in which those people reached their breaking point but fact doesn't change that they're mentally unstable and there have been numerous signs which were overlooked by family, friends and colleagues. I can't go in detail but I have committed a family member due to mental instability and it was a very good thing because all of his weapons were taken away preventing him from using them.
Please do not misconstrue my reason for bringing this up. I am 100% FOR our rights to keep and bear arms and I will fight that to the death. What we're overlooking is how WE, the gun rights advocates, could help our government to devise strategies that won't take away the law abiding citizens rights. I certainly do not have a answer but as a community I bet we could come up with an answer to help address these issues while still protecting our rights. I can't recall exactly which newscast it was but I remember hearing that the director of Washington CeaseFire had scheduled a private meeting with the mayor of Seattle to discuss plans they had after the recent Seattle shootings. If all we have as "ammunition" is the bill of rights and the constitution, I fear the antis will win.
Phoenix David
Regular Member
Well we definitely know how it turned out where only the bad guy was armed.
Difdi
Regular Member
Just like vests come in different levels of protection, so do helmets. All ballistic helmets will protect against shrapnel, but not all of them can survive direct gunfire. Even with ones that can, the wearer will often still be injured by the shot.
amzbrady
Regular Member
Juice
Regular Member
Hi all,
Long time lurker, I don't post much.
During a showing of Batman yesterday in my local town, more people in the theater were armed. Two of us out of our group were open carrying to a lot of approving looks from other patrons. The person at the ticket counter said he was glad we were there and that we had his permission to take down anyone who tried to shoot up their theater. I don't carry all that often, but it was a good day for a "show of force".
Long time lurker, I don't post much.
During a showing of Batman yesterday in my local town, more people in the theater were armed. Two of us out of our group were open carrying to a lot of approving looks from other patrons. The person at the ticket counter said he was glad we were there and that we had his permission to take down anyone who tried to shoot up their theater. I don't carry all that often, but it was a good day for a "show of force".
reillo584
Regular Member
twoskinsonemanns
Regular Member
You make it sound so easy but in reality it is not. Yes there may have been some signs that insane gunmen have shared with each other. The same signs many normal people who will never hurt anyone also exhibit. You think we should inflict psycho analysis on anyone who exhibits these signs? How about a system of auto-warrants for anyone even considered exhibiting these signs.
It would be a terrible tragedy to exchange the level of freedom required for this level of safety.
There are only two ways to deal with these incidents.
#1 Enslave the population. This would allow the government ensure no one had weapons of any kind GG or BG.
#2 Make people realize that their individual safety and those of the people they care about our their responsibility.
Do bad things happen? Hell yes. Are you willing to be a complete slave to ensure they don't happen as frequently? That's up to you to decide.
Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
twoskinsonemanns; Do bad things happen? Hell yes. Are you willing to be a complete slave to ensure they don't happen as frequently? That's up to you to decide.[/QUOTE said:
amlevin
Regular Member
Well say Venya, "Two to the chest, one to the face"...
Sounds good in theory. Now try and do that through smoke and/or tear gas, with people screaming and running around, with shotgun blasts headed your way.
That's of course AFTER you figure out what's going on, just like everyone else who thought it might have been part of the movie, and assuming that YOU weren't one of the first to get hit with a blast of buckshot in the face (saw an interview with one survivor this AM and he had what looked like three buckshot wounds in his face/neck).
I'm sure that lots of people here go to a gravel pit or indoor range regularly. They stand there and shoot at targets that don't shoot back. I doubt that anyone, other than those who've actually been in combat, have any clue what it's like to be in a situation where it's "real $h!t" blowing through the fan.
Best strategy has been stated earlier. Sit in a place where exit is quick and easy. If not, down and under whatever you can find. If armed, defend that position.
The best strategies have been mentioned already. Sit where you can exit quickly. If exit's not possible than get down and under anything available. If armed then defend yourself in that position.
I can just see an active shooter situation like this where several people stand up and open fire on the shooter. Others stand and open fire on the "good guys". Then come the Police and take out everyone with a visible gun.
Give it some thought.
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The chances of effective resistance are not good; the tactical situation is about as bad as it gets. But it's not zero, and it's a little farther from zero with a weapon than without one.
You can't know how you will react to combat stress until you've done so, but you can stack the odds in your favor. Someone who is prepared and willing mentally has a better chance--not a certainty--of reacting effectively than someone who lives in denial. That person chooses to have no chance at all. That's their right, but I do not so choose.
You can't know how you will react to combat stress until you've done so, but you can stack the odds in your favor. Someone who is prepared and willing mentally has a better chance--not a certainty--of reacting effectively than someone who lives in denial. That person chooses to have no chance at all. That's their right, but I do not so choose.
Sparky508
Newbie
+1
For all of the probably couldn'ts and wouldn'ts due to circumstance and tactical situation, smoke body armor and whatever. I'd rather have an ice cubes chance in hell, than no chance at all.
David, I'm stealing this for my sig, if you don't mind.
reillo584
Regular Member
OK you are right... It's a very complicated scenario, I should be more specific;my first priority will be to take my family out of the area, second as a United States Soldier (and Combat vet) I feel obligated to run back inside and at least TRY to help and assist in any form or way within my limitations,
I realize I'm just a human being with certain set of skills and training that may be need it in an active shooter situation (Yes, I been shot at and I have seen the real $h!t hit the fan unfortunately)...
Ballistic vest don’t mean the bullets will literally bounce off, trust me the shooter will notice that he has been shot, especially a few well place .45 caliber round in the center of the chest may knock him down and confuse him for a few seconds, enough time for some people to jump over and gain control of the situation...
I firmly believe that "All that it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"... just my two cents
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twoskinsonemanns
Regular Member
Very well said. A lot of bad things may have been avoided if people didn't have the absurd belief "the government will protect me" like terrorist taking possession of a plane with a box cutter.
davidmcbeth
Banned
I agree. And I look at the 2 extremes.
1) everyone is armed
2) no one but the shooter is armed
Which would be expected to have a better result. Not brain surgery here ... #1
jolly__roger
Regular Member
I think you missed my comment:
I know these are not easy situations to prevent because otherwise we would have already solved it. I do not have any delusions that we will fully prevent these types of situations from happening either. However, rather than everyone sitting around talking about how they would tactically handle killing the perpetrator, why don't we discuss how we can 'help' prevent at least some of these situations from happening in the first place while still protecting our rights. If we do nothing to help by offering solutions (that protect our rights) then those that are against gun rights will 'help' offer their solutions.
I'm willing to bet that on a daily basis you 'inflict' psycho analysis on people you interact with. We all analyse people we are around, people we interact with and if we educate ourselves on how to key up on signs then yes, I think we can make a difference. Because I have taken time to educate myself on how to detect signs (and some were very subtle) that a family member was becoming unstable, I am certain I prevented something from happening.
I'm sorry but I completely disagree with that statement, there are far more possibilities and solutions to address these issues. If we are proactive and work with our government officials to help find some solutions that still protect our rights while giving them and ourselves tools to help prevent these types of situations from happening in the first place, it will be a major win for everyone.
I absolutely did not mention that I or everyone else should be enslaved in order to help find solutions that will help prevent these situations from happening.
You have no idea how difficult it was for me to have my family member committed for psychiatric help. I'm not saying there should be fewer steps in the process because I know his rights needed to be protected until the proper process had been followed to determine that he was mentally unfit to act on his own. The thing that really made me upset about the process was the lack of information and resources that was available and the lack of knowledge by the personnel within the agencies I was supposed to work with so I could start and work my way through the process and system. I was passed from agency to agency and back to previous agencies numerous times trying to get things processed and it was a complete joke. If a person hasn't at least attempted to commit suicide or homicide, the information on the initial steps in the process are hidden from the general public for some reason.
Our mental health institutions have also dramatically decreased in size and numbers in favour of for-profit penitentiaries. So rather than trying to help people work through their mental health issues, we wait until they commit a crime then we throw them in prison so the for-profit penitentiaries can make more money. In order to help my family member (not immediate family either), I have to pay a lot of money every month out of my pocket to keep him off the streets and out of jail and it is causing a major burden on my immediate family.
Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree with this group... It doesn't seem like very many here are interested in prevention but rather re-Action.