Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: What if?

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Olympia
    Posts
    15

    What if?

    I was talking to my wife about the movie shooting,she said it makes you want to not go in public places,I told her what if someone was there that was oc/cc and stood up and took that guy out,she agreed that would be good,but then she asked me a good question,what if you did do that,took the guy out,BUT,what if one of your bullets accidentally took someone else out,what would happen to the person? It could happen very easy,lots of people running around trying to get out.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Kitsap Co., Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,234

    a serious consideration

    The scenario you portray is very worthy of note. In an active shooter situation, lots of people will be running, some may even be armed and attempt to stop the shooter. At this point proper ID and shot placement become more than paramount, but... It is no longer just shot placement, it is also timing too. Why timing? Because you must make sure you dont catch someone running through your field of fire. A 9mm+p or a 357 may have the energy to pass through the assailant and strike an innocent, and regardless of legal consequence, one may feel the emotional responsibility for many moons. Knowing your target (clear ID), and knowing whats behind it are paramount, knowing the strength and capabilities of your firearm are included in this factor. An active shooter scenario in a crowded environment is not the time to exhaust a 16 round mag in a frenzied attempt to land a round. It becomes an exercise in tactical patience, where ones nerves could be put to the extreme limits, and still need to remain focused on that single, well placed, well timed shot on the clearly identified target. ~ In this case, offender was wearing body armor, and the room being filled with tear/cs gas, indeed a worst case scenario.
    Last edited by Batousaii; 07-20-2012 at 01:55 PM.
    ~ ENCLAVE vmc ~
    The Enclave is looking for patriotic motorcycle riders in Washington State who support liberty and freedom for all. ~ Check us out!
    ~
    * " To be swayed neither by the opponent nor by his sword is the essence of swordsmanship." - Miyamoto Musashi.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    , South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    94
    I think it really depends on your state's laws. Some states have what is called "Good Samaritan" laws; which protect people that may accidentally harm innocents while trying to stop a violent crime.


    It would be tragic and depending on the laws, you may still be "civilly" liable.
    -
    Last edited by tcox4freedom; 07-20-2012 at 01:57 PM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    197
    The problem would be that nobody would see the greater good. Nobody would know that you saved 14 lives, so all they would see is that you took two. The person who would have to live with it is you, and it's a theme that shouldn't be ignored when deciding to buy a gun; if you're not ready psychologically, you may not need a gun. Get a knife, or carry a baton (no, not that kind).

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Olympia
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by Batousaii View Post
    The scenario you portray is very worthy of note. In an active shooter situation, lots of people will be running, some may even be armed and attempt to stop the shooter. At this point proper ID and shot placement become more than paramount, but... It is no longer just shot placement, it is also timing too. Why timing? Because you must make sure you dont catch someone running through your field of fire. A 9mm+p or a 357 may have the energy to pass through the assailant and strike an innocent, and regardless of legal consequence, one may feel the emotional responsibility for many moons. Knowing your target (clear ID), and knowing whats behind it are paramount, knowing the strength and capabilities of your firearm are included in this factor. An active shooter scenario in a crowded environment is not the time to exhaust a 16 round mag in a frenzied attempt to land a round. It becomes an exercise in tactical patience, where ones nerves could be put to the extreme limits, and still need to remain focused on that single, well placed, well timed shot on the clearly identified target. ~ In this case, offender was wearing body armor, and the room being filled with tear/cs gas, indeed a worst case scenario.
    It makes you wonder if that is why he did the tear gas,he must of thought it would help him from being shot back at.if that is why,he really put a lot of thought into what he was going to do.

  6. #6
    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Roy, WA
    Posts
    1,329
    Quote Originally Posted by Batousaii View Post
    The scenario you portray is very worthy of note. In an active shooter situation, lots of people will be running, some may even be armed and attempt to stop the shooter. At this point proper ID and shot placement become more than paramount, but... It is no longer just shot placement, it is also timing too. Why timing? Because you must make sure you dont catch someone running through your field of fire. A 9mm+p or a 357 may have the energy to pass through the assailant and strike an innocent, and regardless of legal consequence, one may feel the emotional responsibility for many moons. Knowing your target (clear ID), and knowing whats behind it are paramount, knowing the strength and capabilities of your firearm are included in this factor. An active shooter scenario in a crowded environment is not the time to exhaust a 16 round mag in a frenzied attempt to land a round. It becomes an exercise in tactical patience, where ones nerves could be put to the extreme limits, and still need to remain focused on that single, well placed, well timed shot on the clearly identified target. ~ In this case, offender was wearing body armor, and the room being filled with tear/cs gas, indeed a worst case scenario.
    If this were Facebook I would "like" that post.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Olympia
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by tombrewster421 View Post
    If this were Facebook I would "like" that post.

    I agree that was an excellent reply.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    996
    Quote Originally Posted by Batousaii View Post
    The scenario you portray is very worthy of note. In an active shooter situation, lots of people will be running, some may even be armed and attempt to stop the shooter. At this point proper ID and shot placement become more than paramount,
    I can see a potential chain reaction there. Shots are fired, three oc/cc guys are present, all draw and try to ID the shooter. One of them is faster than the others, and takes out the bad guy...and then gets immediately taken out by the other two good citizens, who didn't see the bad guy shooting, but did see their fellow good citizen open fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    I think it really depends on your state's laws. Some states have what is called "Good Samaritan" laws; which protect people that may accidentally harm innocents while trying to stop a violent crime.
    Doesn't do much good for the guy in a blind panic who ran in front of you while you were trying to get the bad guy, even if you're not civilly liable.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Venya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Olalla, WA
    Posts
    33
    Once a lunatic decides to open fire, you are going to be dealing with the psychological and legal consequences. At that point, your only choice is which ones you get--will you be traumatized for the utter helplessness because you couldn't do anything? Will you be facing guilt and legal consequences for shooting a bystander in an attempt to stop the threat? Something else? (Or dead--always an option.)

    The key is that what choices you have at that point are dictated by what choices you already made--whether to train, how to train, whether to carry, where to carry, what to carry, where to sit, etc.

    You can't know what you would do, not really. But someone who'd trained their own will in advance would have had a choice other than hiding or running. I think I'd rather deal with the consequences of harming a bystander but stopping the threat than live with the knowledge that I might have been able to save someone and chose not to try.

    On deadly ground, you fight.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Yakima, wa
    Posts
    31
    This is a great topic. One that should be discussed and taken seriously.

    Many, MANY folks say that "If there was only someone there legally carrying a gun......" Or, "If only I was there carrying my gun...."

    Including me.

    However, this is the toughest of situations. Dark, chaos, people screaming and running, cries for help, tear gas...

    Even for the very best trained police and military personnel, this is almost as tough add it gets.

    Additionally, your CC'd firearm is probably not appropriate for dealing with this type of threat... Try as we might.

    Add to the mix that even IF we decide to go after the shooter, what identifies us as a good guy Vs. a bad guy in that situation? Almost nothing. We both have guns. We both are shooting.... What would keep another legally armed citizen that may not have good situational awareness, complicated by the above factors, and probably does not have PIDS, from opening fire on YOU?

    Looking at the whole situation, I think that several things would increase a persons chances in this situation.

    1) Don't go to to the movies. In fact, don't go out at all. -j/k

    2) Exercise proper situational awareness. Note/sit near exit points, avoid sitting in the middle of crowds/rows, etc.

    3) Upon notice of the assault, take action:
    a: Duck and cover and wait it out, only responding if approached by bad guy;
    b: Immediately exit the building with loved ones if at all possible;
    c: Position others around you behind cover if possible and attack bad guy.

    Option c, in my opinion, would be a last-resort, out of options response. The chances of shooting a good guy and/or getting shot by a good guy is just to possible.

    I'm just throwing a few things out there for conversation sake. I know there's a lot I left out or haven't considered.

    But to me, the possibility of shooting the wrong person or getting shot myself is just too great.

    However, if the situation presents itself and I have the opportunity...

    You can bet your ass.


    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

  11. #11
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    I guess, for me, if it is choice between getting shot and shooting I'll choose the shooting part any time. My first reaction would be to get out with me and mine. If I have to shoot my way out so be it. If not and I can get out, better. I hope I am a good witness and not a dead movie goer.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •