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Thread: "stupid" oc move in missouri!!!!

  1. #1
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    "stupid" oc move in missouri!!!!

    AND PEOPLE HERE WONDER WHY WE HAVE PROBLEMS WITH OC IN MISSOURI?

    Right after the shooting in CO, some one does this:

    http://www.ky3.com/news/ky3-man-wear...,6746502.story

    OK, it is their right, but a little common sense people!

    THIS IS "STUPID" IN A STATE WHERE WE ARE TRYING TO GET RIGHTS BACK, JUST PLAIN STUPID WITH A CAPITAL "S" AS IN STUPID, STUPID, STUPID!!!!

    And there are people here who want our little group of 2A/OC advocates to post our "plans" on this open forum?

    Here is a plan, behave yourselves and don't be "STUPID"!

    Every few months some body pulls this garabage and it hits he media.... This, right after the disaster in CO is beyond anything reasonable!!!!


    If you want to do something positive for the OC movement is Misosuri, sit down at your kitchen table and write a check to the two peoples' campaigns who introduced bills for OC preemption in Missouri last session!

    Doesn't matter how much, both of these fine people get many small contributions, they are not big time money people, they are not "status quo" politicians.
    They are both so pro-2A you can smell the solvent when you stand next to them!

    This is what will make OC rights happen!
    Enclose a "NOTE", thank you for your support of open carry rights in Missouri.

    You can tell them mspgunner sent you, and "NO" I do not get a kick back, but they know who I am. This wil lhelp the cause.
    Being stupid does NOT!

    House member:
    Citizens to Elect Paul Curtman
    PO Box 355
    Pacific, MO. 63069


    Senate:
    State Senator Brian Nieves
    PO Box 1026
    Washington, MO. 63090

    Like Nike says "Just do it".
    Last edited by mspgunner; 07-22-2012 at 07:07 AM. Reason: Added how to make a difference
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

  2. #2
    Regular Member sraacke's Avatar
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    Just to play devils advocate,what did he do wrong? Should we all stop carrying our pistols in public because of the attack on CO?
    President/ Founding Member
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  3. #3
    Regular Member Chap's Avatar
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    Not sure doing something legal is stupid. I agree it was insensitive.

    Publicity from a widely viewed news article which points out that it is Legal to carry a firearm. You could say that the people who read the article or hear it on the news are more informed. Informed people might not get upset at a person legally performing their daily routine. Yes I agree it was insensitive not to take into consideration the events in another State which closely matched his routine of going to the movies while OCing.

    I went to the theater here in Greenville yesterday afternoon and watched the Batman movie. I CC'd which is my normal carry. No issues, I was legal and I don't believe it was stupid. I could have OC and it might have been insensitive and left myself open to being called stupid online, but Legal non the less.

    In the end I believe my personal safety is paramount in all situations. My safety as well as others is how I would make my decisions., not what others might think about any legal actions I might choose. Sensitivity would play a secondary role in my decision making.

    Just my 2 cents......

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    The man did nothing wrong. Should we all stop carrying our firearms every time a person is shot in this country? I think not. It's our right to carry them. I understand it probably wasn't the best idea to walk into a movie theater considering the recent event in CO, but it's not illegal.

  5. #5
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcqueen View Post
    The man did nothing wrong. Should we all stop carrying our firearms every time a person is shot in this country? I think not. It's our right to carry them. I understand it probably wasn't the best idea to walk into a movie theater considering the recent event in CO, but it's not illegal.
    I said "NOT" illegal, but for goodness sake, THINK! You want OC freedom and he picks a theater right now? Holly smokes. I'm going to an OC event in an hour, but it's not at a THEATER!.
    Common sense, we are having it a place where OC is common.

    Ya' all aint gonna get your rights back if you are doing garbage like this for a first time right after a mass murder! Does this get you public opinion on our side? NO, this is just plain stupid!

    USE YOU FRICKEN BRIANS!

    YEP, YOU CAN BE "LEGAL" AND STUPID... THEN YOU CAN KISS YOUR HOPES FOR OC RIGHTS GOOD BYE HERE IN MISSOURI!
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

  6. #6
    Regular Member Chap's Avatar
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    Guess we just have to agree to disagree.

    I just hope the States don't add another gun law to the books.

    Places Off-Limits Even With A Permit/License
    571.107

    Things which are Stupid but Legal
    571.107-a

    RV/Car Carry Without A Permit/License
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    Im new to OC so what i say carries little weight, but i would not carry to a theater after what just happen, theres a time and place for all things. It was rude. people wonder why pd's want to band open carry, well its because of things like this. OC with respect.

    Bryan

  8. #8
    Regular Member Chap's Avatar
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    Morning Bryan,

    We all have the same freedom of speech, most on this forum respect each others opinion. I enjoy reading others opinion and appreciate this forum.

    I agree the action of Ccing at a movie theatre SO soon was insensitive. With that being said what is an appropriate amount if time before one could exercise their Legal right to OC at a movie theater? 15 or 30 days, should we make it a law? No that would be Stupid right?

    The Left leaning anti's or Big Governmet leaning voters like to write laws to control every action based on current events. I personally lean towards small government, I believe in the Constituion and Bill if Rights. If it isn't Illegal then it must be Legal.

    Everyone has an opinion, I personally believe - we should just leave people alone if they are conducting their lives in a legal Manner. I support a persons right to carry, I support a persons right to post online their opinion, I support others right to disagree with these posts.
    Kimber Ultra Carry II .45 ACP, 3" barrel 1911 with a Mitch Rosen holster

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  9. #9
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Somebody please explain what was stupid or insensitive? IMO calling somebody doing a legal activity, and right in spite of what some terrorist did illegal, insensitive, or stupid. Even the sheriff stuck up for his right. It was not in CO and his presence might very well prevent a copy cat. Had somebody had the balls to ignore the policy of the theater in CO and Holmes knew there were armed people in the theater he may have not even attempted the attack.

    Sorry but giving in to this type of intimidation by nutcases is extremely stupid IMO.

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    Being just an old redneck hillbilly I may be a little slow understanding some things. For example 1 man exercising his lawful right to open carry is called STUPID,
    STUPID and STUPID but then a few persons meeting and OC at a Starbucks or a restaurant is called all right and even maybe brilliant by some irregardless if it attracts cops or not. Guess maybe it is the ones setting up such meetings are brilliant and the rest of us are STUPID. Oh well lettem raise hell and stomp their feet like little spoiled children and people will continue their legal activities as per the law.

    And a big Amen to WalkingWolf's post.
    Last edited by 9026543; 07-22-2012 at 01:41 PM. Reason: add amen

  11. #11
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9026543 View Post
    Being just an old redneck hillbilly I may be a little slow understanding some things. For example 1 man exercising his lawful right to open carry is called STUPID,
    STUPID and STUPID but then a few persons meeting and OC at a Starbucks or a restaurant is called all right and even maybe brilliant by some irregardless if it attracts cops or not. Guess maybe it is the ones setting up such meetings are brilliant and the rest of us are STUPID. Oh well lettem raise hell and stomp their feet like little spoiled children and people will continue their legal activities as per the law.
    902 we have several members donning their tin foil hats and blabbering wild conspiracy theories, and even attacking those who advice them it is not time appropriate. Yet here we have a member who thinks exercising a right in spite of intimidation by a nut case is insensitive. Thank God for people like this man who stand up for not only himself but us.

    Funny peoples priorities.

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    Maybe I am reading things into this thread that are not there but it appears that some want everybody state wide to get their prior approval from them for OC and it being time sensitive or not.

  13. #13
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9026543 View Post
    Maybe I am reading things into this thread that are not there but it appears that some want everybody state wide to get their prior approval from them for OC and it being time sensitive or not.
    It is what it is, we have had heated discussions of how to dress to impress while open carrying. And then some of those same people brag about ignoring property rights. It's ying and yang, human nature, the best we can do is attempt to be sane and normal through it. It appears that is what this man was trying to accomplish by OCing as he normally would.

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    All I can do is shake my head right now ...... my gawd .

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    It's not often mspgunner gets his panties in a wad, but he's certainly there this time and for good reason. What happened in Ozark is detrimental to any efforts to get us to State-wide honoring of OC, without the current allowances of the counties and municipalities having the ability to say "NO".

    WalkingWolf, your post is great. If we call this guy a terrorist then we have to call Nadal Hassan (Ft. Hood) a terrorist. Sadly, he's still drawing military pay, benefits, and a military lawyer. Why? This white male gets declared a terrorist and he won't be afforded the same leeway as Hassan was granted.

    The public, the media, and law enforcement should have expected people to immediately start carrying in the wake of what happened in Colorado. Some will carry in locations that are no-no's by Statute, regardless of the consequences and none should blame them.

    The reality is that it wasn't just insensitive, it was foolish...or perhaps lousy timing. When the world is watching in the immediate aftermath of an incident you don't go and draw attention to yourself and others, even if you're doing absolutely nothing wrong. There could have been a better way to go about drawing this kind of immediate attention like organizing a carry-rally of some sort and involving a theater as well as local LEOs to make it happen.

    Due diligence: Should this person have known what would happen? Yes. Should this person have expected a LE contact? Yes. Did this person take the proactive steps to prevent such an incident from occurring? No. Did it appear as though this individual may have had the intent to create a panic or a scare? In the right person's view, yes; generally it didn't appear that way.


    But here's my MAJOR issue with this incident. The LEOs had no RAS or PC for a detainment, regardless of how short, no cause to run him for warrants, no cause for the contact in the first place. The folks that actually did something wrong were the LEOs, and possibly the theater staff that called in a panic. Other than for the painfully obvious reasons, why are we focused on the individual rather than the LEOs? Neither the individual nor the LEOs acted properly, but given the circumstances that should have been expected. 902653 and I often butt heads on this board, but I cannot disagree with his posts on this issue which is why I don't understand the one-sided viewpoints on this two-sided matter.
    Last edited by REALteach4u; 07-22-2012 at 02:40 PM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Lord Sega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mspgunner View Post
    OK, it is their right, but a little common sense people!
    So here's my question mspgunner... how long do we have to suspend our 2A rights due to the actions of a psycho?
    2 days? 2 weeks? 2 months? And if there is another killing in the local area by a BG with a gun, does the clock start over?

    Do I need to stop driving my car every time I see in the news that a DUI driver killed someone in a traffic accident?

    I open carry everywhere I can legally carry for over 2 years now, including movie theaters, never had a problem.
    If a privately owned business asks for me to leave, I will. Your article has management calling the LEOs without talking to the guy first.
    The LEOs had no RAS or PC to stop & detain. If the manager was scared, fine, have the LEOs there to hold his hand when talking to the OC guy.

    I plan on seeing a movie this weekend, just haven't decided which one, but if/when I go I do plan on OC.
    I will not change my life due to the actions of a madman, to do so means they win.

    The Aurora theater shooting was horrible, and my sympathies & prayers go out to the victims & their families.

    But my rights should not and will not be restricted due to the actions of one murderous madman.

    Now, I admit that in the Aurora situation, a LAC in the theater OC or CC probably would have made no difference.
    A dark, packed theater, smoke / tear gas, BG wearing body armor using a rifle & shotgun... a carrier would have to be in the perfect place in this chaos to even have a chance to stop this guy.
    But, a sight chance is better than none.
    "Guns are not the problem … crazy is the problem” ... “We cannot legislate our society to the craziest amongst us.” - Jon Stewart
    “I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." - Tolkien

  17. #17
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Sega View Post
    So here's my question mspgunner... how long do we have to suspend our 2A rights due to the actions of a psycho?
    2 days? 2 weeks? 2 months? And if there is another killing in the local area by a BG with a gun, does the clock start over?

    Do I need to stop driving my car every time I see in the news that a DUI driver killed someone in a traffic accident?

    I open carry everywhere I can legally carry for over 2 years now, including movie theaters, never had a problem.
    If a privately owned business asks for me to leave, I will. Your article has management calling the LEOs without talking to the guy first.
    The LEOs had no RAS or PC to stop & detain. If the manager was scared, fine, have the LEOs there to hold his hand when talking to the OC guy.

    I plan on seeing a movie this weekend, just haven't decided which one, but if/when I go I do plan on OC.
    I will not change my life due to the actions of a madman, to do so means they win.

    The Aurora theater shooting was horrible, and my sympathies & prayers go out to the victims & their families.

    But my rights should not and will not be restricted due to the actions of one murderous madman.

    Now, I admit that in the Aurora situation, a LAC in the theater OC or CC probably would have made no difference.
    A dark, packed theater, smoke / tear gas, BG wearing body armor using a rifle & shotgun... a carrier would have to be in the perfect place in this chaos to even have a chance to stop this guy.
    But, a sight chance is better than none.
    Just a slight correction, Holmes was not wearing body armor, he had a tactical non ballistic vest on. And the rest of his equipment was too cheap to be ballistic armor. It was weekend warrior gear for fantasy. He could have been dropped like a hot potato.

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    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    My wife and I Open Carry during our normal day, other than into prohibited areas, which in Washington State are actually very limited. If this gentleman specifically said I am going to go make a scene, that is different. Oh and if it was legal to carry there other than private property rights to ask him to leave, what exactly was the RAS and PC to detain, ID and run his serial number? The Sheriff in the news article basically said he broke no laws, hopefully he had a word or two with his officers on not violating a citizen's civil rights. I will be damned if I change my behavior based on at best a disturbed individual, let alone a terrorist.

  19. #19
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mspgunner
    USE YOU FRICKEN BRIANS!
    LOL!!!!!
    Pot, meet kettle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Sega
    how long do we have to suspend our 2A rights due to the actions of a psycho?
    2 days? 2 weeks? 2 months?
    And if there is another killing in the local area by a BG with a gun, does the clock start over?
    Do I need to stop driving my car every time I see in the news that a DUI driver killed someone...?
    Very good points.

  20. #20
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    I appreciate that the OP's concern is for the movement, but here's a political fact: you will never get what you're after if you let bad publicity, or just fear of bad publicity, get in the way.

    That's because on the rare occasions where you can't find an example of something doing what you consider "stupid" and harmful to the cause, the antis will create an example.

    Texas is stuck without open carry precisely because the major gun lobbying group is paralyzed by fear of bad publicity. Don't let it stop Missouri from moving forward for OC preemption.

  21. #21
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    I appreciate that the OP's concern is for the movement, but here's a political fact: you will never get what you're after if you let bad publicity, or just fear of bad publicity, get in the way.

    That's because on the rare occasions where you can't find an example of something doing what you consider "stupid" and harmful to the cause, the antis will create an example.

    Texas is stuck without open carry precisely because the major gun lobbying group is paralyzed by fear of bad publicity. Don't let it stop Missouri from moving forward for OC preemption.
    Yes we see the same thing from Florida residents, they are so scared of anybody stepping up and offending the anti's that they back bite each other. And they will never get open carry back that way by sucking up with the people who don't care, and kicking the people who do.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Yes we see the same thing from Florida residents, they are so scared of anybody stepping up and offending the anti's that they back bite each other. And they will never get open carry back that way by sucking up with the people who don't care, and kicking the people who do.
    Kinda sounds like MO.

  23. #23
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    after what happened in CO. gives me more reason to carry.
    like i have told Colin Goddard if i had been there the shooter would not have gotten to him
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  24. #24
    Regular Member davidmcbeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sraacke View Post
    Just to play devils advocate,what did he do wrong? Should we all stop carrying our pistols in public because of the attack on CO?
    Christian County Sheriff Joey Kyle said the man didn't do anything illegal. from the linked article

    I agree with sraacke -- while some may consider it in "bad taste" -- I think its a guy who has done nothing wrong, like the sheriff said.

    I have been told "you have done nothing wrong but we want to talk to you" -- I tell them to piss off then. Arrest me or leave me alone.


    (I would have carried 5 handguns, just to be safe) lol
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 07-22-2012 at 07:42 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9026543 View Post
    Kinda sounds like MO.
    I have seen a lot of your posts , and you like to talk down about " the way certain people think things are done " quite a bit. Now, I ask you in a most sincere way .... let's not stray from the subject and keep it civil , what do you personally think we can do ( as a group ) to get OC legislation passed ? Once again, I am sincere in this question and in no way " baiting " you or anything . Just genuinly interested. I want to hear some ideas from you as well as others. Once again, let's do it like adults and be civil .

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