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Thread: 100,000 Americans die per year from domestic gun violence - Jason Alexander

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    100,000 Americans die per year from domestic gun violence - Jason Alexander

    Despite these massacres recurring and despite the 100,000 Americans that die every year due to domestic gun violence
    Gun control advocates really need to do their homework before running their traps. If they all start claiming that 100,000 Americans lose their lives every year from domestic homicides by gun... Well, they might as well not say anything, it'd be better for their cause. Such a blatantly incorrect statement is ridiculously easy to refute... These statements do nothing but make it abundantly clear to the average citizen that those paroting them have no idea what they're talking about, or worse(for the control advocates), highlight their obsession with control which in this day and age is nothing but pure poison to their cause.

    The people are becoming very fed up with the government and the encroachment on our rights, people are wanting more freedom and less restrictions. Especially when those restrictions have no benefit and even are counter productive. By demonstrating such a desire for control, a willingness to invent things that do not exist, all they do is push away the people.

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Yeah.

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    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
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    That's not the only thing wrong with what he said.

    I read most of his little post and it became very clear that he knew very little of what he was talking about. Some of the finer points:

    • The 2nd Amendment is meant for the milita only
    • An AR-15 has more capacity, firepower and accuracy than a conventional hunting rifle
    "Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice." -Zeus

    "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Malcolm Reynolds

    EDC = Walther PPQ 9mm

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    Regular Member Jay Jacobs's Avatar
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    What do you expect from a washed up short fat bald guy anyway?





    "“According to statistics provided by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, there is an interesting correlation between accidental deaths caused by guns and those caused by doctors. There are 700,000 physicians in the U.S. that cause 120,000 accidental deaths each year. Accidental death per physician is 0.171 percent. There are 80 million gun owners in the U.S. responsible for 1,500 accidental gun deaths per year for a percentage of accidental deaths per gun owner of 0.0000188. Doctors are 9,000 times more dangerous to the public health than gun owners.”
    http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2005/04/...aths-year.html

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Firearms Related Deaths - Center for Disease Control, etc.

    From CDC.gov:
    Violence-related firearm deaths remain an important public health concern in the United States. During 2006--2007, a total of 25,423 firearm homicides and 34,235 firearm suicides occurred among U.S. residents (1).
    1. CDC. Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System (WISQARS). Atlanta, GA: US Department of Health and Human Services, CDC; 2007. Available at http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/index.html. Accessed May 3, 2011.
    Granted those stats are a bit old... but, if Alexander could add, the figure would be 59,478 - a bit shy of his ridiculous 100,000 claim.

    Looking for another official source, I queried the FBI's UCR database, thinking they would have some good numbers. I was wrong. The UCR only shows percentages of change from year to year. The percentage of homicides in 2011, compared to 2010, was down 5.4%. I realize that doesn't tell you squat numerically, unless you have the numbers for 2010.

    So I checked the U.S. Census Bureau for more recent info. Their online files stopped at 2009, but murders were reported as 13,756 total, with firearms being used in 9, 206 of those murders (it appears that there are still some creative, up-close-and-personal types killing folks).

    I hesitate to trust blogs, Wikipedia, foreign and other unofficial sources for even fairly accurate statistics. You never know who has "a dog in the fight". Anyway, Jason Alexander has his head up and locked! (Interestingly, as I was perusing the FBI UCR, I noticed that since 2001 as more people acquired permits to own or carry, the violent crime stats have gone consistently down in each successive year. Coincidence? I think not.) Pax...
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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    It should be noted that either number of murders AND suicides by firearm have halved since 06/07, or those numbers are for both years combined. Since I do not believe that it has in fact halved over the last few years, I'm going to guess that it is actually for both years combined.

    Another thing to note is that Alexander specifically mentioned domestic violence murders by gun, which excludes suicides and a lot of those murders.

    Just sayin~

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    Regular Member Maine Expat's Avatar
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    Of course we can always wave the staggering number of vehicular deaths in their faces as well.

    (32,885 in 2010) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...n_U.S._by_year

    Verses

    (9369 FA murders in 2010) http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...-with-firearms


    I find it quite interesting that we must pass an exam and be issued a license to drive, but for the most part anyone can go buy and own a firearm.

    According to this info we should be outlawing CARS not guns.
    “Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws.” ― Plato

    Plato knew this yet today's antis still don't get it!

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    It should be noted that either number of murders AND suicides by firearm have halved since 06/07, or those numbers are for both years combined. Since I do not believe that it has in fact halved over the last few years, I'm going to guess that it is actually for both years combined.

    Another thing to note is that Alexander specifically mentioned domestic violence murders by gun, which excludes suicides and a lot of those murders.
    Personally, I don't believe that (objectively) "suicide by gun" should be included in the heading "Violent Crimes". Murder is the unlawful taking of another person's life - the force behind the death is external, and the victim generally has little/no control over the outcome. A successful suicide is driven by internal forces, and there is no "victim" per se (in the usual sense of the word "victim"). Not all suicides are accomplished with a firearm, and not all suicides are "violent". A person cannot rob him/herself. Can one commit a violent act against oneself?
    Ralph Tanner cites the definition of violence in the Oxford English Dictionary as going "far beyond (the infliction of) pain and the shedding of blood". He argues that, although violence clearly encompasses injury to persons or property, it also includes "the forcible interference with personal freedom, violent or passionate conduct or language (and) finally passion or fury."[2]
    Similarly, Abhijit Nayak writes that: The word "violence" can be defined to extend far beyond pain and shedding blood. It carries the meaning of physical force, violent language, fury and, more importantly, forcible interference.[3]
    Suicide is a personal choice... as are the means by which to accomplish suicide. In a suicide, the fact is that someone wanted to cease living. Their choice of means is irrelevant. Suicide should have it's own heading, as do "Accidental Deaths". Just sayin'. Pax...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maine Expat View Post
    Of course we can always wave the staggering number of vehicular deaths in their faces as well.

    (32,885 in 2010) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...n_U.S._by_year

    Verses

    (9369 FA murders in 2010) http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...-with-firearms


    I find it quite interesting that we must pass an exam and be issued a license to drive, but for the most part anyone can go buy and own a firearm.

    According to this info we should be outlawing CARS not guns.
    Which is why we should not be required by the state to get a license to drive a private automobile in the first place. It violates one's right to travel and does NOTHING for it's intended reason... "safety".

    This post makes a great argument for just such a thing... you license it... you make it less safe.

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    Regular Member GONZO!!!'s Avatar
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    I like the stat of doctor deaths versus firearms deaths...

    I ws trying to find the actual number of alcohol related deaths in 2011...

    let's get the numbers adn the sources for 2011

    firearm deaths
    alcohol related deaths
    doctor malpractice deaths


    I bet we find the alcohol number to be much higher than the firearm!

    GONZO!!!

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    Personally, I don't believe that (objectively) "suicide by gun" should be included in the heading "Violent Crimes". Murder is the unlawful taking of another person's life - the force behind the death is external, and the victim generally has little/no control over the outcome. A successful suicide is driven by internal forces, and there is no "victim" per se (in the usual sense of the word "victim"). Not all suicides are accomplished with a firearm, and not all suicides are "violent". A person cannot rob him/herself. Can one commit a violent act against oneself?
    Suicide is a personal choice... as are the means by which to accomplish suicide. In a suicide, the fact is that someone wanted to cease living. Their choice of means is irrelevant. Suicide should have it's own heading, as do "Accidental Deaths". Just sayin'. Pax...
    Absolutely agreed. Suicide should never be taken into consideration when discussing the alleged cost of legal firearm ownership.

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    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    What would you expect from someone who's obviously in the bag for the other side? Of course they would use false statistics and pretty much talk out of their arse.... He's a nobody who nobody cares about...
    When you put the gun in the holster, put the ego in the gun safe.

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