Michigander
Regular Member
Drawing at an event, if I remember right?
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- Thread starter Orion
- Start date
Drawing at an event, if I remember right?
stainless1911
Banned
Never happened.
I could still post if I chose. At the time, I was offered to stay on the forums, despite being banned as a member, but declined. I should have stayed on. At the time, I was one of the members with the highest post count, as I was really trying to do my part in making the new forum succeed.
I could still post if I chose. At the time, I was offered to stay on the forums, despite being banned as a member, but declined. I should have stayed on. At the time, I was one of the members with the highest post count, as I was really trying to do my part in making the new forum succeed.
TheQ
Regular Member
As said in post #9 -- record it.
Michigander - Thanks for your comments. I have considered going to another office but I refuse to allow my actions to be dictated by others without just cause. I do occasionally CC, but I prefer to OC and understand that I will occasionally be confronted about it. I have been many times by other citizens, but so far anyone in any position of authority has not yet. I am looking for advice on handling situations like these because I intend to continue OC'ing and until I deal with things like these I will not get the experience needed to be able to handle them with confidence.
smellslikemichigan
Campaign Veteran
i tried to go to this location today but it was closed for some sort of facility problem. i went to the one in troy on e longlake instead. no issues there. there was not security guard there. i was a little disappointed because i wanted to OC at the clinton location.
Yance
Regular Member
Actually its just one of Pats recent experiences and how he had dealt with it.
TheQ
Regular Member
FWIW, you are presently banned from the Forum and have been since before I took office.
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MKEgal
Regular Member
I'm not completely sure of MI law, but in many states it's illegal to be in a taxpayer-owned building while exercising certain civil rights unless one has a permission slip from the gov't.Orion said:
Since laws stop crime, anyone without a license would be stopped by the magical force field at the door, right?
Good thing he'll never carry, if he'd be that careless with his pistol.
I take it he wasn't armed?
He certainly hasn't had any safety training. "You're welcome to be my personal bodyguard while I'm here. Awful friendly of you. Come along."
[then walk away]
stainless1911
Banned
No one ever told me that I was banned from the forums. At the time, I remember discussing it with autosurgeon, and I could stay, or I could go. Since there was so much BS going on, politics, false accusations and such, I chose to go. I wasn't banned. Tell yourselves what you like.
Raggs
Regular Member
You didn't fire me I quit!
stainless1911
Banned
Pretty much. Wasn't worth talking to a wall.
autosurgeon
Regular Member
At the time I had no admin powers to ban or not so I could not have told you whether or not you were banned.
Evil Creamsicle
Regular Member
This sub conversation is a personal matter and is of literally no use or importance to anyone, so please take it to PMs, I'd rather slam my balls in the oven door than read any more of this bickering.
Back OT:
I think the magical taxpayer barrier only exists when it comes to federally owned/funded buildings. Secretary of State is a state funded building, which is not listed as a PFZ as far as I am aware, so preemption would apply. I've OCed at SOS offices before without issue.
I have seen some with guards and some without... I'm not sure what the criteria is for them deciding where to put these guys.
As far as how to handle the situation, I think you [OP] did pretty well. He asked you to disarm, you politely refused. If he wants to follow you around, well, that's his prerogative, but I suppose you could always file a complaint with his supervisor saying that he offended you or that it was a misappropriation of tax dollars for you to have your own 'personal bodyguard'
Back OT:
I'm not completely sure of MI law, but in many states it's illegal to be in a taxpayer-owned building while exercising certain civil rights unless one has a permission slip from the gov't.
Since laws stop crime, anyone without a license would be stopped by the magical force field at the door, right?
Good thing he'll never carry, if he'd be that careless with his pistol.
I take it he wasn't armed?
"You're welcome to be my personal bodyguard while I'm here. Awful friendly of you. Come along."
[then walk away]
I think the magical taxpayer barrier only exists when it comes to federally owned/funded buildings. Secretary of State is a state funded building, which is not listed as a PFZ as far as I am aware, so preemption would apply. I've OCed at SOS offices before without issue.
I have seen some with guards and some without... I'm not sure what the criteria is for them deciding where to put these guys.
As far as how to handle the situation, I think you [OP] did pretty well. He asked you to disarm, you politely refused. If he wants to follow you around, well, that's his prerogative, but I suppose you could always file a complaint with his supervisor saying that he offended you or that it was a misappropriation of tax dollars for you to have your own 'personal bodyguard'
scot623
Regular Member
Preemption only applies to local units of government, not state agencies. SOS could ban firearms tomorrow and it would be completely legal.
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Evil Creamsicle
Regular Member
True, I suppose its not really a local unit of government... so then they could ban guns.
So... does one office have the authority to ban guns at that office, do you think? For example, Secretary of State on the whole has not banned firearms, but one office decides they don't want to allow firearms in?
scot623
Regular Member
I know of nothing that would stop a branch manager from banning firearms. At that point I would write to SOS in Lansing to get a written clarification that they do indeed allow branch managers to ban guns. After that, there really wouldn't be anything we could do about it.
I suppose we could sue the SOS since they are banning firearms outside of the law (28.425o and 750.234d). But that costs money and in the mean time the legislature could just amend the law and add them. SCOTUS has ruled banning firearms from buildings like the SOS is reasonable.
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smellslikemichigan
Campaign Veteran
is the SOS granted the authority to do that by law? or would the state legislature have to give them that authority first?
scot623
Regular Member
Idk. Someone show me a law that precludes them from banning guns. Absent that, I believe Ruth Johnson could ban them. (I'd prefer to be wrong)
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TheQ
Regular Member
I tend to follow this theory. State Agencies only have the powers that their enabling statute gives them. Ergo, SoS can't ban guns unless someone shows me where it says in their enabling statute that they can.
People talk about "preemption" but it is simply not the correct term in this case.
stainless1911
Banned
Then why wouldn't she? Theres no way they are going to lose money, seeing this system is run like a mafia. Follow our rules that we make up, and give us your money, or we will charge you more money, and if you dont like it, we will make your life a living hell, and/or put you in a cage at gunpoint.