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Thread: New Gun Owner -

  1. #1
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    Question New Gun Owner -

    I have purchased a Sig Sauer .22 MOS for plinking and the short pistol range target practice. I was thinking about getting my CWL so i can carry it on my person (people are unpredictable these days and I have a family to protect. What are the actual rules on OC with my pistol UN-loaded? I've read up on the ORS', but they all talk about the weapon being loaded.

    I understand that ORS specifically states that a holster on your hip is not considered conceled, but can i OC my .22 on my waist in a holster anywhere but "Public Buildings" as long as it's not loaded? If so, where can i keep the clip for it, in the other side pocket? I also ride a streetbike, has anyone heard of whether that has different rules regarding riding through town with it also on my hip? Thank you all for your responses, I want to become knowledgeable of my second amendment rights.

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    Hello "New Gun Owner", you can carry a loaded handgun in public at the age of 18 as long as you do not live in a city or county that has a banned against loaded carry to Non-CHL holders, this is under ORS 166.173

    166.173 Authority of city or county to regulate possession of loaded firearms in public places. (1) A city or county may adopt ordinances to regulate, restrict or prohibit the possession of loaded firearms in public places as defined in ORS 161.015.

    (2) Ordinances adopted under subsection (1) of this section do not apply to or affect:

    (a) A law enforcement officer in the performance of official duty.

    (b) A member of the military in the performance of official duty.

    (c) A person licensed to carry a concealed handgun.

    (d) A person authorized to possess a loaded firearm while in or on a public building or court facility under ORS 166.370.

    (e) An employee of the United States Department of Agriculture, acting within the scope of employment, who possesses a loaded firearm in the course of the lawful taking of wildlife. [1995 s.s. c.1 §4; 1999 c.782 §8; 2009 c.556 §3]

    You are correct, since you do not have a CHL, you can not go into public buidings and capitol building with any firearm. Don't forget, even though you do get a CHL, you still can not go into court buildings and Federal Buildings.

    166.370 Possession of firearm or dangerous weapon in public building or court facility; exceptions; discharging firearm at school. (1) Any person who intentionally possesses a loaded or unloaded firearm or any other instrument used as a dangerous weapon, while in or on a public building, shall upon conviction be guilty of a Class C felony.

    (2)(a) Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (b) of this subsection, a person who intentionally possesses:

    (A) A firearm in a court facility is guilty, upon conviction, of a Class C felony. A person who intentionally possesses a firearm in a court facility shall surrender the firearm to a law enforcement officer.

    (B) A weapon, other than a firearm, in a court facility may be required to surrender the weapon to a law enforcement officer or to immediately remove it from the court facility. A person who fails to comply with this subparagraph is guilty, upon conviction, of a Class C felony.

    (b) The presiding judge of a judicial district may enter an order permitting the possession of specified weapons in a court facility.

    (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

    (a) A sheriff, police officer, other duly appointed peace officers or a corrections officer while acting within the scope of employment.

    (b) A person summoned by a peace officer to assist in making an arrest or preserving the peace, while the summoned person is engaged in assisting the officer.

    (c) An active or reserve member of the military forces of this state or the United States, when engaged in the performance of duty.

    (d) A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun.

    (e) A person who is authorized by the officer or agency that controls the public building to possess a firearm or dangerous weapon in that public building.

    (f) An employee of the United States Department of Agriculture, acting within the scope of employment, who possesses a firearm in the course of the lawful taking of wildlife.

    (g) Possession of a firearm on school property if the firearm:

    (A) Is possessed by a person who is not otherwise prohibited from possessing the firearm; and

    (B) Is unloaded and locked in a motor vehicle.

    (4) The exceptions listed in subsection (3)(b) to (g) of this section constitute affirmative defenses to a charge of violating subsection (1) of this section.

    (5)(a) Any person who knowingly, or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, discharges or attempts to discharge a firearm at a place that the person knows is a school shall upon conviction be guilty of a Class C felony.

    (b) Paragraph (a) of this subsection does not apply to the discharge of a firearm:

    (A) As part of a program approved by a school in the school by an individual who is participating in the program;

    (B) By a law enforcement officer acting in the officer’s official capacity; or

    (C) By an employee of the United States Department of Agriculture, acting within the scope of employment, in the course of the lawful taking of wildlife.

    (6) Any weapon carried in violation of this section is subject to the forfeiture provisions of ORS 166.279.

    (7) Notwithstanding the fact that a person’s conduct in a single criminal episode constitutes a violation of both subsections (1) and (5) of this section, the district attorney may charge the person with only one of the offenses.

    (8) As used in this section, “dangerous weapon” means a dangerous weapon as that term is defined in ORS 161.015. [1969 c.705 §§2,4; 1977 c.207 §2; 1979 c.398 §2; 1989 c.839 §22; 1989 c.982 §5; 1991 c.67 §39; 1993 c.625 §1; 1999 c.782 §7; 1999 c.1040 §4; 2001 c.666 §§24,36; 2003 c.614 §6; 2009 c.556 §6]



    166.372 [1993 c.625 §3; repealed by 1996 c.16 §5]

    Also, do not forget about the Federal law on the Gun Free School Zone Act. That means if you do not have a state license of carry a firearm, then you can not be in a 1000 feet radius of a K-12 school. Yet, I presumed this law can only be enforced by federal agents only.

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    So I have to figure out if Jackson County has a ban against a loaded firearm when i don't have a CHL?

    My .22 holster has a second pocket for a clip (which is where I wanted to keep it) but that also means it's out of the gun. Jackson County Sheriff's are giving me the run around on what's alright and what's not so i'm coming to you guys for help because I have the right to carry, and I want to use it.

    I know i'm not allowed within the 1000 feet of a K-12, and I know that college/university's all have their own rules (and of course the no federal or state buildings) but I'm just trying to figure out if i can leave it un-loaded with the clip readily accessible and keep it on my hip when i go to stores and places not covered under the "public buildings" clause.

    I'm not good at deciphering "law" terminology and how lawmakers word the statutes. It's all confusing to me

  4. #4
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crawlingfaint15 View Post
    So I have to figure out if Jackson County has a ban against a loaded firearm when i don't have a CHL?

    My .22 holster has a second pocket for a clip (which is where I wanted to keep it) but that also means it's out of the gun. Jackson County Sheriff's are giving me the run around on what's alright and what's not so i'm coming to you guys for help because I have the right to carry, and I want to use it.

    I know i'm not allowed within the 1000 feet of a K-12, and I know that college/university's all have their own rules (and of course the no federal or state buildings) but I'm just trying to figure out if i can leave it un-loaded with the clip readily accessible and keep it on my hip when i go to stores and places not covered under the "public buildings" clause.

    I'm not good at deciphering "law" terminology and how lawmakers word the statutes. It's all confusing to me
    Search ORS 166 and benchmark it. Constantly reference it until you are very confident you have it down pat. IMHO: Pay particular attention to ORS 166.250 and ORS 166.260 (the exceptions to .250).

    I do not know of any ORS 166.173 restrictions basically south of Springfield, and with Springfield it has to do with park facilities. Portland, Salem, Beverton and a few others up there have whole jusridiction restrictions on loaded carry. You should be able to OC loaded anywhere it is legal in So OR without worrying about .173.

    Just keep .370 in mind when you do carry. Get your CHL and you will not have to worry about any of that. When you have your CHL you can still OC, you just don't have to worry about ORS 166.173 or .370.
    Last edited by hermannr; 07-23-2012 at 12:15 PM.

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    I recommend taking some basic safety and firearms training as well. I don't think you can have too much. Get very familiar with your new purchase regardless of what it may be. And remember, situation awareness is most important no matter how or whether you carry or not.

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    Regular Member Ironbar's Avatar
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    I was going to try and explain the difference between a clip and a magazine for the OP, but I changed my mind.

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    Well, if you can read, you'll see that it says "New Gun Owner". Obviously i'm trying to work on my knowledge, and you sir are obviously here to just cause more harm than good.

    Thanks for the inadvertent (possibly intentional though) drop that there is a difference. I researched it, and I understand my mistake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironbar View Post
    I was going to try and explain the difference between a clip and a magazine for the OP, but I changed my mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by crawlingfaint15 View Post
    Well, if you can read, you'll see that it says "New Gun Owner". Obviously i'm trying to work on my knowledge, and you sir are obviously here to just cause more harm than good.

    Thanks for the inadvertent (possibly intentional though) drop that there is a difference. I researched it, and I understand my mistake.
    A thick skin and a smile has considerable benefits when reading/posting on any forum. Turning the other cheek doesn't hurt either, especially when the other poster is right, even if not totally acceptable to you in style.

    If I didn't say "Welcome to OCDO" before, consider it done now. Hope you stick around, learn and share - think we've got the absolute best here, great site.
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    welcome

    Welcome to OCDO. Congratulations on your first gun purchase. The best advice I can give is. Get to know the laws and your rights. Read them over, and over. They can be confusing and overwhelming. The more you read the better you will understand. Read the forum, and find some videos to watch on you tube, like "dont talk to th e police". Get your CHL, so you have less to worry about. But most of all just carry, and know how to defend that right.
    "To defend my family, and protect our rights"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironbar View Post
    I was going to try and explain the difference between a clip and a magazine for the OP, but I changed my mind.
    A clip is something you put on old potato chip bags ... and a magazine is something you read or roll up to kill flies

    Silly rabbit.

  11. #11
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    I would also recomment obtaining and always carrying an audio recording device. You will have to "inform" (but do not need permission) people when you are recording audio but if you do have any sort of encounter with LEO's it could well be worth its weight in gold.

    I would also recommend that you copy and paste the pertinent sections of ORS 166 into a word processor and print it in a font that is small enough to minimize the amount of paper but large enough to read easily. If you then carry it with you, you can refer to it whenever you hae a doubt come into your mind about th legality of a particular place or other situation.

    Remember, the law does not tell us what we CAN do, it tells us what we CAN NOT DO (and often grants exceptions). For instance, it is unlawful to carry in a "public building" but with a CHL you are exempt.

    Also, NEVER ask for legal advice (i.e. when/how you can carry), particularly concerning firearms, from an LEO (or any other public official). You also shouldn't accept online legal advice......LOOK IT UP ON YOUR OWN AND UNDERSTAND IT.

    Police can lie to you, it's perfectly accepted by the courts. You however, cannot lie to them or they'll charge you.

    Learn what "Reasonable Articulable Suspicion" (RAS) is, as well as become familiar (intimately) with the provisions of Terry v Ohio (TERRY). These items will explain to you just what an officer can and cannot (legally) do. Doesn't mean they'll abide by them (and don't resist - but don't consent).

    Oh, and welcome to OCDO. There are several of us from Jackson County on the forum.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  12. #12
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by We-the-People View Post
    Police can lie to you, it's perfectly accepted by the courts. You however, cannot lie to them or they'll charge you.
    Can I get a citation for the second sentence above? I can believe that filing a false police report would potentially get you charged, but if you have a concealed weapon on your person, and a cop asks if you have a weapon on you and you say no, then what could you be charged with?

  13. #13
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtoe416 View Post
    Can I get a citation for the second sentence above? I can believe that filing a false police report would potentially get you charged, but if you have a concealed weapon on your person, and a cop asks if you have a weapon on you and you say no, then what could you be charged with?
    Here are a few that I pulled up. The numbers are obviously the ORS. I didn't find any that related to just "plain" lying to the police....162.325 requires it to be a felony they're after, though there are a lot of felonies any more.


    807.620 Giving false information to police officer; penalty. (1) A person commits the offense of giving false information to a police officer if the person knowingly uses or gives a false or fictitious name, address or date of birth to any police officer who is enforcing motor vehicle laws.

    162.075 False swearing. (1) A person commits the crime of false swearing if the person makes a false sworn statement, knowing it to be false. - Class A Misdemeanor

    162.247 Interfering with a peace officer or parole and probation officer. (1) A person commits the crime of interfering with a peace officer or parole and probation officer if the person, knowing that another person is a peace officer or a parole and probation officer as defined in ORS 181.610:
    (a) Intentionally acts in a manner that prevents, or attempts to prevent, a peace officer or parole and probation officer from performing the lawful duties of the officer with regards to another person

    162.325 Hindering prosecution. (1) A person commits the crime of hindering prosecution if, with intent to hinder the apprehension, prosecution, conviction or punishment of a person who has committed a crime punishable as a felony, or with the intent to assist a person who has committed a crime punishable as a felony in profiting or benefiting from the commission of the crime, the person:
    (a) Harbors or conceals such person; or
    (b) Warns such person of impending discovery or apprehension; or
    (c) Provides or aids in providing such person with money, transportation, weapon, disguise or other means of avoiding discovery or apprehension; or
    (d) Prevents or obstructs, by means of force, intimidation or deception, anyone from performing an act which might aid in the discovery or apprehension of such person; or
    (e) Suppresses by any act of concealment, alteration or destruction physical evidence which might aid in the discovery or apprehension of such person; or
    (f) Aids such person in securing or protecting the proceeds of the crime.

    162.375 Initiating a false report. (1) A person commits the crime of initiating a false report if the person knowingly initiates a false alarm or report which is transmitted to a fire department, law enforcement agency or other organization that deals with emergencies involving danger to life or property.

    162.385 Giving false information to peace officer for a citation or arrest on a warrant. (1) A person commits the crime of giving false information to a peace officer for issuance or service of a citation or for an arrest on a warrant if the person knowingly uses or gives a false or fictitious name, address or date of birth to any peace officer for the purpose of:
    (a) The officer’s issuing or serving the person a citation under authority of ORS 133.055 to 133.076 or ORS chapter 153; or
    (b) The officer’s arresting the person on a warrant.







    HERE'S A SCARY ONE though not related.

    162.315 Resisting arrest. (1) A person commits the crime of resisting arrest if the person intentionally resists a person known by the person to be a peace officer or parole and probation officer in making an arrest.
    (2) As used in this section:
    (a) “Arrest” has the meaning given that term in ORS 133.005 and includes, but is not limited to, the booking process.
    (b) “Parole and probation officer” has the meaning given that term in ORS 181.610.
    (c) “Resists” means the use or threatened use of violence, physical force or any other means that creates a substantial risk of physical injury to any person and includes, but is not limited to, behavior clearly intended to prevent being taken into custody by overcoming the actions of the arresting officer. The behavior does not have to result in actual physical injury to an officer. Passive resistance does not constitute behavior intended to prevent being taken into custody.
    (3) It is no defense to a prosecution under this section that the peace officer or parole and probation officer lacked legal authority to make the arrest or book the person, provided the officer was acting under color of official authority.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  14. #14
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by We-the-People View Post
    Here are a few that I pulled up. The numbers are obviously the ORS. I didn't find any that related to just "plain" lying to the police....162.325 requires it to be a felony they're after, though there are a lot of felonies any more.

    <snip>

    (3) It is no defense to a prosecution under this section that the peace officer or parole and probation officer lacked legal authority to make the arrest or book the person, provided the officer was acting under color of official authority.
    Wow...that's more than I thought there'd be.

    That resisting arrest thing is interesting. In Indiana you can use force to resist an unlawful arrest. It also seems to somewhat contradict the Supreme Court case U.S. v. Bad Elk.

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