Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 59

Thread: Alamance county denied my PPP

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Burlington NC
    Posts
    49

    Question Alamance county denied my PPP

    Before I get into it, I've been reading forums for hours. I joined this one because you guys seem to be the most knowledgable and stomp out the BS quickly.

    I got a misdemeanor when I was 16. 30 days suspended for 2 years unsupervised probation.
    When I turned 21, I applied for a PPP and got approved.
    Skipping to present.
    I'm 33, no other charges since I was 16. Alamance county denied me.
    The reasoning was I had a 2 year sentence. I own a pistol that I bought using a permit supplied by the same people that denied me. He told me I was perfectly legal in owning a pistol, I just could not buy one. WTH. He told me I could expunge that charge or file a lawsuit against the sheriffs department. I don't understand how they can give me a permit when the charge was only 5 years old, then deny me 12 years later.
    Do I have any recourse besides what he stated? He also said he would deny a ccp.
    The only person over his head is Terry Johnson and the both agreed to deny me. So it would be no use to try that.
    Sorry for the long post

  2. #2
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,279
    What was the misdemeanor for?

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Burlington NC
    Posts
    49
    Contributing to the dilquencey of a minor.
    Long story short. I gave a girl a ride to a friends house. She had snuck out of the house.

    I know of a deputy with the same charge.
    Last edited by Matt2908; 07-23-2012 at 02:40 PM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member razor_baghdad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    CONUS ~for now~
    Posts
    279

    Don't take no for an answer.

    Good info here:

    http://www.ncsheriffs.org/documents/...ws-rev2011.pdf

    N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-404.
    An applicant refused a permit has a right to appeal such refusal to the Chief District Court Judge for the district in which the application was filed.

    and this:

    Further, the person is not considered convicted if the conviction has been expunged or set aside, or is an offense for which the person has been pardoned or has had their civil rights restored (if the law of the applicable jurisdiction provides for the loss of civil rights under such an offense) unless the pardon, expungement, or restoration of civil rights expressly provides that the person may not ship, transport, possess, or receive firearms. 18 U.S.c. § 921(a)(33) and 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(9).

    "The only person over his head is Terry Johnson and the both agreed to deny me. So it would be no use to try that."

    The Judge is over his head. Try that!

    I'd say you served your debt to society. WTF can this Sheriff be thinking? ;(

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Burlington NC
    Posts
    49
    Thanks for the link.
    There was nothing in those rules that would disqualify me. It said a misdemeanor had to be punishable with 1 year imprisonment. Mine was only 30 days.
    Is that appeal in a court setting or an office? Just wondering if I needed a lawyer. If so does anyone recommend a lawyer in Alamance with PPP appeals exp.
    I shouldn't need one but then again I shouldn't have been denied.

  6. #6
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,279
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt2908 View Post
    Thanks for the link.
    There was nothing in those rules that would disqualify me. It said a misdemeanor had to be punishable with 1 year imprisonment. Mine was only 30 days.
    Is that appeal in a court setting or an office? Just wondering if I needed a lawyer. If so does anyone recommend a lawyer in Alamance with PPP appeals exp.
    I shouldn't need one but then again I shouldn't have been denied.
    They do not go by the actual punishment levied, they go by the possible maximum sentence for a crime. If it was a misdemeanor punishable by up to one to two years you will probably need to get it expunged.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 07-23-2012 at 05:33 PM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Burlington NC
    Posts
    49
    Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor [NCGS 14-316.1, Class 1 misdemeanor]
    Any person 16 years of age or older who knowingly or willingly causes, aids or encourages a
    minor to become delinquent, undisciplined, abused or neglected.30

    From what I have read. A class 1 misdemeanor with no priors holds a maximum sentence of 45 days.
    Even with 5 or more convictions it only holds a max of 120 days.

    I forgot to mention. The guy that denied me said, if I had took the 30 days I wouldn't have had a problem. So he is going by the 2 years unsupervised probation.

  8. #8
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    48
    Are you eligible for a concealed carry permit? You might want to go that route. Counties can pretty much put whatever requirements they want for PPPs, but CHP requirements are regulated by the state.

  9. #9
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,279
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt2908 View Post
    Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor [NCGS 14-316.1, Class 1 misdemeanor]
    Any person 16 years of age or older who knowingly or willingly causes, aids or encourages a
    minor to become delinquent, undisciplined, abused or neglected.30

    From what I have read. A class 1 misdemeanor with no priors holds a maximum sentence of 45 days.
    Even with 5 or more convictions it only holds a max of 120 days.

    I forgot to mention. The guy that denied me said, if I had took the 30 days I wouldn't have had a problem. So he is going by the 2 years unsupervised probation.
    Appeal the refusal ~ or if you want to spend the money have your record expunged. From what I heard it is easy as long as you get an attorney.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Burlington NC
    Posts
    49
    I think I'm just gonna go for the expungement. So this will never be an issue again.
    Can't get a ccp. He said he would deny me that also.
    Thanks to everyone for the input.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    381
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt2908 View Post
    I think I'm just gonna go for the expungement. So this will never be an issue again.
    Can't get a ccp. He said he would deny me that also.
    Thanks to everyone for the input.
    Conceal carry permit is shall issue, I don't think he can deny it for that charge.
    See if one of these lawyers is close to you.
    http://www.grnc.org/resources/gun-friendly-lawyers

  12. #12
    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Concord, NC
    Posts
    1,790

    move to another county for 30 days

    and apply for your CHP. No more ppp needed.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Granite State of Mind
    Posts
    4,510
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt2908 View Post
    The guy that denied me said, if I had took the 30 days I wouldn't have had a problem. So he is going by the 2 years unsupervised probation.
    Unsupervised probation is not a sentence of incarceration. It doesn't count.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Burlington NC
    Posts
    49
    That's what I tryed to tell him. He is convinced otherwise.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Grennsboro NC
    Posts
    5,358
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt2908 View Post
    That's what I tryed to tell him. He is convinced otherwise.
    Your Sheriff is an unmitigated a$$hat. He doesn't know the law, he is bullying and lying to you, and he is setting up his office for a trip to the District Court.

    He cannot legally deny your CHP for this record. First, you were a minor, so he shouldn't even have access to the records. And second, it was not a disqualifying charge. And THIRD, he does not have "discretion" to pick and choose what does and does not disqualify the issuance of a NC CHP--that process is very clearly defined under STATE law.

    Don't argue with him--that only makes a$$hats more steadfast in their arrogant ignorance.

    Just apply for a CHP. When he denies you, appeal to the District Court.

    When the Judge overrules his denial and has a permit issued to you, sue the Sheriff for violating your civil rights.

    When you win that settlement, buy a new car, and drive by the Sheriff's office every day and wave your CHP at him.



    That's what I'd do...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 07-24-2012 at 10:42 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Your Sheriff is an unmitigated a$$hat. He doesn't know the law, he is bullying and lying to you, and he is setting up his office for a trip to the District Court.

    Don't argue with him--that only makes a$$hats more steadfast in their arrogant ignorance.

    That's what I'd do...
    Another policeman that knows nothing ; not as bad as this reason (for a denial I am appealing): that I filed several freedom of information act requests

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Burlington NC
    Posts
    49
    I'm going to sign up for the concealed carry class when I get home. Hopefully he will just approve me.

  18. #18
    Regular Member smlawrence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Colfax, NC
    Posts
    261
    Don't just be hopeful. Be confident in what you know and be sure that confidence is seen. Make sure he knows that you know your rights and won't just settle for his stupida$$ opinions. Take care.
    "God, Guns, & Guts Made America, Lets Use All 3!!!"

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Burlington NC
    Posts
    49

    Alamance county denied my PPP

    Update
    I know this is old. Actually forgot I posted it.
    Got my CHP a few months ago.
    Last edited by Matt2908; 05-18-2014 at 02:05 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    301
    ...thanks for the update...

    ...early on you were told you could own a pistol...just not buy one...does NC have a law forbidding you to buy a handgun/weapon because of the charge when you were younger?

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Burlington NC
    Posts
    49
    No we have to ask permission from the sheriff to buy a handgun unless you have a CHP which bypasses the pistol purchase permit

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Burlington NC
    Posts
    49

    Alamance county denied my PPP

    There is a law that says you can't buy a pistol if you have a misdemeanor that has a 2 yr sentence.
    It was taken wrong.
    My sentence was 30 days. But it was suspended for 2 yrs unsupervised probation.
    That's where the misinterpretation came in.
    Last edited by Matt2908; 05-18-2014 at 03:07 PM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    301
    ...I found the state law here: http://www.ncdoj.gov/getdoc/32344299...-gun-Laws.aspx

    ...on page 5, they have a heading for Federal requirements for purchase eligibility...they then on page 6 say that any crime for which you could have been sentenced to more than a year...and that is in error...

    ...what the actual federal rule is, from the Form 4473 itself, is that on page 4 of 6, under 11.b's instructions, it says(which the state omitted)
    "(this does not include state misdemeanors punishable by imprisonment of two years or less)"

    ...so, even counting your probation of 2 years....it WASN'T imprisonment...it WASN'T over 2 years, and it WAS a misdemeanor...unless the state DOESN'T go by the Federal guidelines, which it says in that website that it does...you were always eligible.

  24. #24
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,885
    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdog View Post
    ...I found the state law here: http://www.ncdoj.gov/getdoc/32344299...-gun-Laws.aspx
    ...on page 5, they have a heading for Federal requirements for purchase eligibility...they then on page 6 say that any crime for which you could have been sentenced to more than a year...and that is in error...
    ...what the actual federal rule is, from the Form 4473 itself, is that on page 4 of 6, under 11.b's instructions, it says(which the state omitted)
    "(this does not include state misdemeanors punishable by imprisonment of two years or less)"
    ...so, even counting your probation of 2 years....it WASN'T imprisonment...it WASN'T over 2 years, and it WAS a misdemeanor...unless the state DOESN'T go by the Federal guidelines, which it says in that website that it does...you were always eligible.
    both of your kind attentions are drawn to the actual NC statute site (http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/SiteS...rm+sales&sa=Go) verses the NC attorney general's brochure which provides an overview on firearm issues from the AG's perspective.
    (14.402)

    additionally, you might research what the 'actual federal rule is' regarding federal firearm purchases verses looking at the form or the AG's brochure.
    (ATF's 5300.4, dtd 2005 reference guide, http://www.atf.gov/files/publication...f-p-5300-4.pdf.)

    bottom line NC statutes trump federal requirements as stated in 14.402 since w/o a sheriff's issued PPP of CHP individuals are not eligible to purchase a firearm in the state of NC and the ATF has stated NC FFLs will accept PPP/CHP in lieu of NICS background check.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    301
    ...the latest revision of 5300.4 was published in Sept 2005...therefore 478.32(a)(1) is not up to date...however, what I quoted from ATF4473 (5300.9 )Part1 revised April 2012 IS up to date, and is correct...working from the 5300.4 will not always give you correct information...this is one of those times that it doesn't...trust the instructions on the form 4473...that is the document your truthfulness is compared to in case of dispute...

    ...not having experience in dealing with NC's laws/procedures and without wading through the actual law there, I can only take the publication by the AG's office as true...perhaps you can cite where in the mass of the NC law that the requirement is more strict than that of the Feds regarding a misdemeanor with two years or less possible imprisonment...

    ...I also see (http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL...GS_14-402.html) that a pistol purchase permit is not necessary if a NC carry permit is presented...and that the ATF has accepted the NC carry permit instead of a NICS check...quite a few states' permit programs qualify to be accepted by the Feds...
    Last edited by sheepdog; 05-19-2014 at 07:56 AM.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •