What was the misdemeanor for?
Thread: Alamance county denied my PPP
Before I get into it, I've been reading forums for hours. I joined this one because you guys seem to be the most knowledgable and stomp out the BS quickly.
I got a misdemeanor when I was 16. 30 days suspended for 2 years unsupervised probation.
When I turned 21, I applied for a PPP and got approved.
Skipping to present.
I'm 33, no other charges since I was 16. Alamance county denied me.
The reasoning was I had a 2 year sentence. I own a pistol that I bought using a permit supplied by the same people that denied me. He told me I was perfectly legal in owning a pistol, I just could not buy one. WTH. He told me I could expunge that charge or file a lawsuit against the sheriffs department. I don't understand how they can give me a permit when the charge was only 5 years old, then deny me 12 years later.
Do I have any recourse besides what he stated? He also said he would deny a ccp.
The only person over his head is Terry Johnson and the both agreed to deny me. So it would be no use to try that.
Sorry for the long post
What was the misdemeanor for?
Contributing to the dilquencey of a minor.
Long story short. I gave a girl a ride to a friends house. She had snuck out of the house.
I know of a deputy with the same charge.
Last edited by Matt2908; 07-23-2012 at 01:40 PM.
Good info here:
N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-404.
An applicant refused a permit has a right to appeal such refusal to the Chief District Court Judge for the district in which the application was filed.
Further, the person is not considered convicted if the conviction has been expunged or set aside, or is an offense for which the person has been pardoned or has had their civil rights restored (if the law of the applicable jurisdiction provides for the loss of civil rights under such an offense) unless the pardon, expungement, or restoration of civil rights expressly provides that the person may not ship, transport, possess, or receive firearms. 18 U.S.c. § 921(a)(33) and 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(9).
"The only person over his head is Terry Johnson and the both agreed to deny me. So it would be no use to try that."
The Judge is over his head. Try that!
I'd say you served your debt to society. WTF can this Sheriff be thinking? ;(
Thanks for the link.
There was nothing in those rules that would disqualify me. It said a misdemeanor had to be punishable with 1 year imprisonment. Mine was only 30 days.
Is that appeal in a court setting or an office? Just wondering if I needed a lawyer. If so does anyone recommend a lawyer in Alamance with PPP appeals exp.
I shouldn't need one but then again I shouldn't have been denied.
Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor [NCGS 14-316.1, Class 1 misdemeanor]
Any person 16 years of age or older who knowingly or willingly causes, aids or encourages a
minor to become delinquent, undisciplined, abused or neglected.30
From what I have read. A class 1 misdemeanor with no priors holds a maximum sentence of 45 days.
Even with 5 or more convictions it only holds a max of 120 days.
I forgot to mention. The guy that denied me said, if I had took the 30 days I wouldn't have had a problem. So he is going by the 2 years unsupervised probation.
Are you eligible for a concealed carry permit? You might want to go that route. Counties can pretty much put whatever requirements they want for PPPs, but CHP requirements are regulated by the state.
I think I'm just gonna go for the expungement. So this will never be an issue again.
Can't get a ccp. He said he would deny me that also.
Thanks to everyone for the input.
See if one of these lawyers is close to you.
and apply for your CHP. No more ppp needed.
If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.
That's what I tryed to tell him. He is convinced otherwise.
He cannot legally deny your CHP for this record. First, you were a minor, so he shouldn't even have access to the records. And second, it was not a disqualifying charge. And THIRD, he does not have "discretion" to pick and choose what does and does not disqualify the issuance of a NC CHP--that process is very clearly defined under STATE law.
Don't argue with him--that only makes a$$hats more steadfast in their arrogant ignorance.
Just apply for a CHP. When he denies you, appeal to the District Court.
When the Judge overrules his denial and has a permit issued to you, sue the Sheriff for violating your civil rights.
When you win that settlement, buy a new car, and drive by the Sheriff's office every day and wave your CHP at him.
That's what I'd do...
Last edited by Dreamer; 07-24-2012 at 09:42 PM.
It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
--Barry Goldwater, 1964
I'm going to sign up for the concealed carry class when I get home. Hopefully he will just approve me.
Don't just be hopeful. Be confident in what you know and be sure that confidence is seen. Make sure he knows that you know your rights and won't just settle for his stupida$$ opinions. Take care.
"God, Guns, & Guts Made America, Lets Use All 3!!!"
I know this is old. Actually forgot I posted it.
Got my CHP a few months ago.
Last edited by Matt2908; 05-18-2014 at 01:05 PM.
...thanks for the update...
...early on you were told you could own a pistol...just not buy one...does NC have a law forbidding you to buy a handgun/weapon because of the charge when you were younger?
No we have to ask permission from the sheriff to buy a handgun unless you have a CHP which bypasses the pistol purchase permit
There is a law that says you can't buy a pistol if you have a misdemeanor that has a 2 yr sentence.
It was taken wrong.
My sentence was 30 days. But it was suspended for 2 yrs unsupervised probation.
That's where the misinterpretation came in.
Last edited by Matt2908; 05-18-2014 at 02:07 PM.
...I found the state law here: http://www.ncdoj.gov/getdoc/32344299...-gun-Laws.aspx
...on page 5, they have a heading for Federal requirements for purchase eligibility...they then on page 6 say that any crime for which you could have been sentenced to more than a year...and that is in error...
...what the actual federal rule is, from the Form 4473 itself, is that on page 4 of 6, under 11.b's instructions, it says(which the state omitted)
"(this does not include state misdemeanors punishable by imprisonment of two years or less)"
...so, even counting your probation of 2 years....it WASN'T imprisonment...it WASN'T over 2 years, and it WAS a misdemeanor...unless the state DOESN'T go by the Federal guidelines, which it says in that website that it does...you were always eligible.
http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/SiteS...rm+sales&sa=Go) verses the NC attorney general's brochure which provides an overview on firearm issues from the AG's perspective.
additionally, you might research what the 'actual federal rule is' regarding federal firearm purchases verses looking at the form or the AG's brochure.
(ATF's 5300.4, dtd 2005 reference guide, http://www.atf.gov/files/publication...f-p-5300-4.pdf.)
bottom line NC statutes trump federal requirements as stated in 14.402 since w/o a sheriff's issued PPP of CHP individuals are not eligible to purchase a firearm in the state of NC and the ATF has stated NC FFLs will accept PPP/CHP in lieu of NICS background check.
The most logically consistent theories are unbelievable. B. Russell
Do not try to bend the spoon, that’s impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth… there is no spoon. Then you will see this is not the spoon that bends. It is only yourself.
To often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. ~John F. Kennedy
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain
...the latest revision of 5300.4 was published in Sept 2005...therefore 478.32(a)(1) is not up to date...however, what I quoted from ATF4473 (5300.9 )Part1 revised April 2012 IS up to date, and is correct...working from the 5300.4 will not always give you correct information...this is one of those times that it doesn't...trust the instructions on the form 4473...that is the document your truthfulness is compared to in case of dispute...
...not having experience in dealing with NC's laws/procedures and without wading through the actual law there, I can only take the publication by the AG's office as true...perhaps you can cite where in the mass of the NC law that the requirement is more strict than that of the Feds regarding a misdemeanor with two years or less possible imprisonment...
...I also see (http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL...GS_14-402.html) that a pistol purchase permit is not necessary if a NC carry permit is presented...and that the ATF has accepted the NC carry permit instead of a NICS check...quite a few states' permit programs qualify to be accepted by the Feds...
Last edited by sheepdog; 05-19-2014 at 06:56 AM.