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Photo ID with a CPL to OC on a bus?

Freedom1Man

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Jan 14, 2012
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Greater Eastside Washington
I am at a loss.

I had some lame brain cop tell me that I have to state issued photo ID whenever I OC in a Vehicle. I asked him for the RCW that said that. He could not remember he claimed. I got home and looked for it and didn't find it.

Does anyone here know about any law requiring you to have a government ID with you have a CPL?

The law I found shows that you're not even required to have government ID to GET a CPL.
 
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Vitaeus

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May 30, 2010
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Bremerton, Washington
hmmmm, picture ID and CPL are not linked in any way I can find. If you are required to have a CPL to be carrying the firearm in the manner and place you need to have it on your person and to present to LEO upon a valid request.


RCW 9.41.050 http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.050

RCW 9.91.025 http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.91.025 (f) Carries any flammable liquid, explosive, acid, or other article or material likely to cause harm to others, except that nothing herein prevents a person from carrying a cigarette, cigar, or pipe lighter or carrying a firearm or ammunition in a way that is not otherwise prohibited by law

are teh two applicable sections I can dig up quickly. There are some previous posts about the ferries and the buses, but the search function here doesn't like me.
 

hermannr

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Okanogan Highland
hmmmm, picture ID and CPL are not linked in any way I can find. If you are required to have a CPL to be carrying the firearm in the manner and place you need to have it on your person and to present to LEO upon a valid request.


RCW 9.41.050 http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.050

RCW 9.91.025 http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.91.025 (f) Carries any flammable liquid, explosive, acid, or other article or material likely to cause harm to others, except that nothing herein prevents a person from carrying a cigarette, cigar, or pipe lighter or carrying a firearm or ammunition in a way that is not otherwise prohibited by law

are teh two applicable sections I can dig up quickly. There are some previous posts about the ferries and the buses, but the search function here doesn't like me.

You have to read .050 carefully...you need to produce your CPL when requested "When required by law" .050 does not say you must produce your CPL when requested...but when reqested,,,and "required by law"...

so now, you need to find where producing your CPL on request "IS" required by law...I know of no place.

If you look at ORS 166.370 you will see a place where Oregon CPL holders "are specifically required by law" to produce a CHL, but I know of no WA equivilant.

Basically, Oregon required a CHL to enter a "public building" (think city hall, that kind of "public building") if you are CC or OC...WA does not have an equivilant restriction...I know of no specific place you cannot have an unlicensed OC v an OC with a license required...don't point to .300 as that only ALLOWS the local government to restrict in a conference center, it does not REQUIRE it to be restricted,

As for the OP: the officer was blowing smoke. When was the last time you heard that you were required to have ID to ride a bus, or ferry?
 
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Difdi

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Mar 2, 2010
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Seattle, Washington, USA
You have to read .050 carefully...you need to produce your CPL when requested "When required by law" .050 does not say you must produce your CPL when requested...but when reqested,,,and "required by law"...

so now, you need to find where producing your CPL on request "IS" required by law...I know of no place.

I would imagine such a place would be anywhere you need to have a CPL to carry your pistol. Loaded in a car comes to mind. So does picking up or dropping off your kid at school. Walking around with a concealed pistol and someone sees it print comes to mind, since carrying concealed without a license is a crime.

Carrying loaded while driving you might need to present both driver's license and CPL, but I can't think of any other situation where you'd need BOTH.
 

Freedom1Man

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I would imagine such a place would be anywhere you need to have a CPL to carry your pistol. Loaded in a car comes to mind. So does picking up or dropping off your kid at school. Walking around with a concealed pistol and someone sees it print comes to mind, since carrying concealed without a license is a crime.

Carrying loaded while driving you might need to present both driver's license and CPL, but I can't think of any other situation where you'd need BOTH.

"Printing" is not probable cause in Washington

Vitaeus

hmmmm, picture ID and CPL are not linked in any way I can find. If you are required to have a CPL to be carrying the firearm in the manner and place you need to have it on your person and to present to LEO upon a valid request.


RCW 9.41.050 http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.050
Here is the that part of hte RCW 9.41.050


(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.

Since display is not defined we have to conclude that it means the same thing when the law talks about having your license plates on display. I can't find anything that says I must had it over. Only that it be displayed. The bastard took it from me and then was 'processing it' and caused me to miss my bus.
 

amlevin

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Feb 16, 2007
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North of Seattle, Washington, USA
"Printing" is not probable cause in Washington

Are you saying that if you're "printing" while carrying in a prohibited area that that wouldn't be probable cause for a LEO to stop you? Like in a Bar? A Courthouse restricted area? That he can't ask you for a CPL if he see's the "printing" while you're riding a bus?

Give that a little thought.
 

Bill Starks

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Dec 27, 2007
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Location
Nortonville, KY, USA
since carrying concealed without a license is a crime.

RCW 9.41.060 is the exemption which allows concealed and loaded carry......


Look folks, it's very simple.....

Carry in/upon a vehicle requires a CPL (unless you meet the exemptions in .060). Otherwise you meet the requirement in .050 section B.
 

BigDave

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Yakima, Washington, USA
Amazing, our CPL contain the same information as our Driver's License except an expiration date of the Driver's License.
Full Name, Address, DOB, Height, Weight, Hair and Eye Color, Driver's License Number.... and of course it lacks a photo.
Showing your CPL when legally required to is not an issue, they already have all the information that your State ID and elements to run any check they want.
If you must have something to complain about it might as well be something as futile as this, really asked yourself what more information can be gained from having your driver's license in hand as well?
 

hermannr

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Okanogan Highland
I might agree that you could show that you have a CPL to get going again, but lacking some other reasonable suspician I do not believe they have a right to demand it, just like when you are driving a car on the public highways, they do not have a right to stop you and demand you show that you have a drivers license (which is required to be able to drive on the public highways) for no reason at all.

If we are innocent until proven guilty, when the officer sees an OC weapon he must assume that the person has a license if there is no reason to believe that there is any other reason that some criminal activity may be present.

Personally, I would file a formal complaint against the officer with his jurisdiction.

As I have said, and maybe I am just fortunate, or maybe it is because of where I live in WA, but since 1970, I have Never been asked for my CPL, when driving or not...including when I was talking to a Skagit co Sheriff's Deputy just Saturday. (While OCing) He only asked what kind of pistol it was...he liked it.
 
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BigDave

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I was addressing the issue concerning the loaded carry in a vehicle be it Open or Concealed as it is required for both.
Unless of course you are engaging in a legal outdoor activity in RCW 9.41.060.
 

slapmonkay

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As I have said, and maybe I am just fortunate, or maybe it is because of where I live in WA, but since 1970, I have Never been asked for my CPL, when driving or not...including when I was talking to a Skagit co Sheriff's Deputy just Saturday. (While OCing) He only asked what kind of pistol it was...he liked it.

I know its been said many times but I feel demeanor, looks and how one handles themself can go a long way to achieve little or no harassment even in the presence of LEO.
 

Freedom1Man

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I know its been said many times but I feel demeanor, looks and how one handles themself can go a long way to achieve little or no harassment even in the presence of LEO.

I have had more encounters lately. This one was just the odd one. While many have been annoying this one was intrusive and disruptive.

That is why I have said anything.

The line he tried to feed me is "99 percent of cops WANT you to open carry"
The other thing was "why do you open carriers always act like you're going to be hassled by the police?"
"Why do you guys always have an attitude?"
"This contact started off normal but he has calmed down" ( I never got excited in the first place )

This is a police state.
 

hermannr

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I was addressing the issue concerning the loaded carry in a vehicle be it Open or Concealed as it is required for both.
Unless of course you are engaging in a legal outdoor activity in RCW 9.41.060.

However Dave, in this state, stopping you just for a drivers license or sobriety check has been found by the courts as violating Article 1 section 7. IMHO, in the same manner, and maybe even moreso, OC of a weapon MAY require a CPL, but then it MAY NOT.

OC under .050, or .060, doesn't matter...unless there are some extenuating circumstances, OCing MUST be presumed lawful, and as such cannot warrent a stop and ID on their own any more than an other lawful activity.
 

deanf

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You have to read .050 carefully...you need to produce your CPL when requested "When required by law" .050 does not say you must produce your CPL when requested...but when reqested,,,and "required by law"...

"or to any other person when and if required by law to do so." if required by law to do so refers to any other person. Police officers have blanket authority to demand display of a CPL. You must only display it to non-police when and if the law requires it (which it doesn't).

That is my careful read of the law.
 
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slapmonkay

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I was addressing the issue concerning the loaded carry in a vehicle be it Open or Concealed as it is required for both.
Unless of course you are engaging in a legal outdoor activity in RCW 9.41.060.

However Dave, in this state, stopping you just for a drivers license or sobriety check has been found by the courts as violating Article 1 section 7. IMHO, in the same manner, and maybe even moreso, OC of a weapon MAY require a CPL, but then it MAY NOT.

OC under .050, or .060, doesn't matter...unless there are some extenuating circumstances, OCing MUST be presumed lawful, and as such cannot warrent a stop and ID on their own any more than an other lawful activity.

This is not the point Dave was trying to make. He was simply stating that you are required to have a CPL when your carrying LOADED in a vehicle regardless of it being Open or Concealed (Unless of course you fall into an exception).

If a police officer pulls you over for X and notices your carrying with reason to believe its loaded and he asks for your CPL, you are required to provide it to him.
 
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sudden valley gunner

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"or to any other person when and if required by law to do so." if required by law to do so refers to any other person. Police officers have blanket authority to demand display of a CPL. You must only display it to non-police when and if the law requires it (which it doesn't).

That is my careful read of the law.

Cops don't have "blanket authority"....they still need to have RS something illegal is being done. Carrying in a bar don't count as brought up earlier since being armed in a bar is illegal anyway.
 
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